Aquiring Hardware - Tactics, time, hard work.

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Trev

Audioholic
To be very honest... and I debated posting this in steam vent, it just kills to be that bottom rung Joe with champagne taste... depressed over the unbelievable peaks he may just miss in his lifetime due to lack of finance. When it comes to driving fast cars... women, partying... none of those things trouble me. I feel I'm definitely an Audioholic because the thing that gets me most is always dying for the next fix of a quality audio experience.

This thread I'm creating is to get a good grasp on how much time, luck, tactics, financing and investing it has taken some members to obtain the setups they have now - in hopes that it could bring some wisdom to anyone who can only afford to buy once.

(Please don't hesitate to use in forum links to great posts in responses, and not necessary to answer all sections if you just felt like sharing about headphones for example.)

1. Headphone
a. first pair, current pair, necessary accessories, maintenance tips.
b. How did you come to afford your current setup? (Just a good job? Financing? How much time approximately saving up?)

2. AV Receiver
a. First receiver, current receiver, maintenance tips, regrets?
b. How did you come to afford your current setup? (Just a good job? Financing? How much time approximately saving up?)

3. Speakers
a. First set, current set, maintenance tips, regrets?
b. How did you come to afford your current setup? (Just a good job? Financing? How much time approximately saving up?)

4. Other - Amps, tube preamps, vinyl setups, HTPC...
a. First setup, has it been worth your investment?, current setup, maintenance tips.
b. How did you come to afford your current setup? (Just a good job? Financing? How much time approximately saving up?)

Hope it's not too personal to ask. Just having the option to wallow in envy or to gather intel and do something about it... I choose post.

T.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
What I would say is the speakers that matter the most are the left and right fronts, and, to a lesser extent, the subwoofer. Whatever you do, don't shortchange yourself on the mains or sub. Build up from that point. I wouldn't worry about getting the perfect receiver or source components right away. If I had to start over, I would save up, get the mains and subs that I want, get some cheap temporary amplification and source components and enjoy the music. I would add other stuff later, like if I wanted a receiver with better features or a center speaker or stuff like that. The main thing is enjoying what you have instead of always worrying about how it could be better.

Another thing I wish I had done sooner is experiment with subwoofer placement. This makes a big difference. Take the time to try different spots. Learn about subwoofer crawling, learn about near-field placement. If you have the freedom, try different listening positions too.

One thing I encourage people to do on a tight budget is, if they intend to get a surround sound system, just get a couple decent bookshelf speakers and a good subwoofer to start, a 2.1 system. A couple good bookshelf speakers and a good sub will always sound better than a whole gob of satellite speakers and a small subwoofer. Later you can add to that system without having to throw stuff away, like you could move your bookshelf speakers to surround duty if you want to upgrade the front stage. You can also improve the bass by adding another decent sub of the same model, instead of having to throw out a mediocre sub, or worse, trying to integrate a crappy sub with a good one. Go for fewer, higher quality components over a bunch of lower quality components. That ends up saving you money anyway, because they will probably last longer and save you from spending more in the future.

There are certain components that I am OK buying used. Amplifiers don't really wear out (unless mistreated), so that is something you can get used. Used receivers should be fine too, as long as they have all the features you want. I would be a bit more careful buying used speakers though, you need to look for signs of age-related damage.
 
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bikemig

Audioholic Chief
I bought most of my gear in some sort of a blow out; I just keep my eyes peeled for a good sale. I have no qualms about buying open box items and manufacturer refurbished items (check out accessories4less). Also check out your local Craigslist; I wish I had when I was putting together my system.

This is a great site for finding out about sales since there are so many knowledgeable people who will post about sales. Totally agree about the 2.1 set up; you just don't have to pay a lot to get good gear.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Get an idea of what you want. Makes. model #, etc. ALWAYS keep an eye out for sales.

Don't expect wires and cables to make sonic improvements. That money is better used saving tor better gear.

For starters, buy the best mains speakers you can afford.

Start saving for a great subwoofer.

Start with entry level/mid range receiver. These change yearly so by the time the rest of re system is complete, you'll probably want to upgrade.

Keep saving for a subwoofer. Maybe get an entry level one (> $200) to tide you over.

Then, get the matching center while it's still available. They change lines frequently so if you put it off too long, that may be difficult.

Get the surrounds, preferably matching. For HT they are not that critical but for music, it makes a difference.

Sit back and take stock of what you've got. If you spent wisely, it should not suck.

If you've got enough ## saved up, go for a killer subwoofer. If not, wait.

Now, see where you want to make your first upgrade. If nothing seems bad, keep saving. Keep in mind that newer is not always better. Features should not be confused with genuine sonic improvements, particularly in electronics.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
I firmly believe that any audio enthusiast who is just starting out, or who has high end taste, but a limited budget, should start his or her audio journey with headphones. You can get GREAT headphones for $1000 or less (often much less). But more than that, the most important thing any audio enthusiast can do is to learn how to listen critically. Also, all the best speakers and amps in the world mean nothing if you have bad room acoustics, or you live in a situation (apartment, shared house) where you cannot listen to your system when you want to, and as loudly as you want to! Headphones are not restricted by the limitations of your room or living situation. So start there, learn how to listen critically, and save up for a house! :eek:

And while you're saving up for that house, you're enjoying your headphones and planning, planning, planning. What do you want your future home theater to be like? Do you want a cozy, 3-seat couch theater? You can turn any room that's about 12' x 15' or larger into one of those. That could easily be a spare bedroom or a den. But maybe you want a theater big enough for guests and extended family. Maybe your want two or three rows of seating, or to fit 5 or more seats across in each row. You're gonna need a much bigger room for that. Probably a basement recroom that you can close off and make into a dedicated theater. Or maybe you want the proverbial "Man Cave" with a pool table, card table and bar all built into the shared theater space.

Point is, plan ahead so that you know what you're looking for when you go to buy your house. And if you know what sort of theater you're going to build, you can start to think ahead about speakers and subwoofers that will be appropriate for that size of room, and the sort of amplifier power you'll need in order to drive them. The room dictates the gear. The room tells you where your seat should go, which tells you your viewing distance, which tells you what screen size you're going to need. It's really all about the room. People so often only think and worry about the gear. But get your room first! The room is everything!

In the meantime, get great headphones and enjoy :). The biggest regret any of us has is buying gear that we think is going to make us happy, only to realize that our circumstances don't really allow us to use that gear the way we want to, or we bought it thinking we'd move it to a new home in the future, only to discover that the new home has a room that demands different gear than what we bought! The absolute best thing that you can learn is how to wait, hold onto the money you have, and only spend it when you're truly ready and the time is right. We've all let our excitement get the better of us at some point and sprung for equipment that we were just "sure" we'd get real use of some point in the future. Well sometimes, that envisioned future never comes, and that purchase just ends up being a waste. So plan all you want. Dream all you want. But keep your money, wait, get the house and the theater room you want first, and then spend your money on the gear!

Also, don't waste time trying to save a nickel when you can use that same amount of time to earn a dollar. All the crap people do with clipping coupons and looking for sales and deals. Instead of the amazing amount of time people waste doing that, head on down to Labor Ready and dig a trench or haul bricks for a day. Get a second job flipping burgers or walking dogs. Don't let pride or the idea of "relaxing and living the life you want right now" allow you to get lazy or turn down some easy money that's right there for you if you just put in a few hours of honest work. While your friends are teasing you for working a crappy job while they play Xbox and get high, in a few short years, you're putting a down payment on a house and driving a car that's paid off, while they're still living in a crappy rented apartment with 3 roommates, and bumming smokes off of their ugly girlfriends ;)

All the while, you're enjoying your headphones. Never bugging anybody else, and being able to block out the noise of the world whenever you want!

The best deal in the world right now, IMO, is to spend $100 on a pair of Shure SE215 in-ear monitors. They're amazingly good for the money. And as versatile as it gets! Get the optional iPod/iPhone or generic phone/portable player adapter and you've got a superb portable solution with a control button and mic. Plug the SE215 into your computer. Plug 'em into any type of portable player. And if you want something closer to a surround sound, home theater experience for movies and TV, get yourself an Astro Gaming MixAmp . For $130, you can plug in pretty much any source via optical, stereo RCA analogue, or mini line in. The MixAmp is a full on Dolby Digital 5.1 decoder. And it uses Dolby Headphone processing to create the sense of 7.1 surround playback. It's a great way to bring a solid headphone amp, DD decoding and connection to virtually any source to your wonderful Shure in-ear monitors.

The SE215 themselves are clear, accurate, and they've got a bit of a boosted bass end for really kicking' music and some pretty amazing impact with action movies and LFE. They're accurate and transparent enough for you to learn how to listen critically with them. They're also very durable. They're small and super easy to bring anywhere. They don't "leak" sound at all, so you're never bothering other people when you're listening out in public. And they do a darn good job of blocking out noise from the outside world, just like earplugs.

Of course, if you want tremendous fidelity, the kind of transparency and accuracy you'd pay thousands and thousands, maybe even tens of thousands for from a speaker setup, you can drop about $450 on the Shure SE535, which are Shure's top of the line in-ear monitors, and they're just sublime.

If you want some full-sized "cans" for use at home, I really like Denon's high end headphones. I really love the "old" AH-D5000. And while I haven't heard them myself yet, the new AH-D7100 are reportedly magnificent. You're getting into some pretty expensive headphones with these, but again, $1000 is a small budget for a speaker setup. For headphones though around $1000 gets you flagship quality sound. So it might seem crazy to spend that much on headphones, but not if you think of them as just being very specialized speakers! ;)

Maybe you just want surround speakers right away. Maybe you think you don't care about room acoustics or getting your house and car first. Maybe you don't want to live with a merely "great" and very versatile "entry level" surround speaker system like the one I put together and recommended here:

$2500 Complete Entry Level Sytem (Audio AND Video)

until you've got your house and car and you can let the room you've selected as your theater dictate what gear is going to work best for you. That's ok. We've all done it :)

But if you want to spend your money as wisely as possible. If you want to get every penny's worth. If you want to spend as little as possible in the long run. Get some great headphones. Get a MixAmp. And/or get a great entry level system like my $2500 suggestion. And then wait. Work hard. Make a buck wherever you can. Save it all up. Don't spend a cent more on home theater gear. Plan, plan, plan. Find the house you want with the room for your theater that you want. Buy it. Build the theater room. And then fill it with the gear that's appropriate for that room. The specific products are all going to be new by then. So there's not a lot of point in worrying about it right now. But you'll be happy in the knowledge that you didn't waste a cent along the way, you're streets ahead of your lazy friends, and you were enjoying great sound from your headphones and/or entry level system the whole time, so you didn't even "miss out" while you were working hard and saving up. And now it's time to treat yourself for all that patience and all that hard work. And it'll feel all that much sweeter because you'll truly know that you've earned it :)

Hope that helps!
 
Whitey80

Whitey80

Senior Audioholic
I went the route of waiting for the right purchases on Craigslist. Good trades in my favor and good deals.

Let's start with my systems: Dedicated Theater and 2-Channel music system

These came through good dealings that ended up in total costing less than a couple thousand out of my pocket for BOTH setups combined. Now mind you, it did require time. Regular time scouring Craigslist for the equipment I was looking for directly at a good price, or looking for something priced faaar below what it would reasonably sell for. The items that were screaming deals were purchased and immediately reposted for the appropriate price and the money went on to another piece of equipment for my setups.
The 2 channels system came along from a pair of KEF iQ7's in beautiful walnut that I picked up from a guy in flawless condition for $200. He was thinking this would help him get in my good graces for a tattoo he was considering....never heard from the guy again....$200 for a great pair of speakers, and he also gave me 3 amp stands to get them out of his house and a NAD universal disc player for $40.
I later traded those KEFs for a pair of Magnepans which I had been dying to own since I first heard years back. To accentuate the missing bottom end of the Maggies, I brought in a KT88 based integrated tube amp, which happened to be exactly the price I sold my pair of Denon POA4400 mono amps for. Picked up a pioneer elite SACD player to add to the set for $35.

My favorite deal/trade up was in acquiring the Swan M200mkIII's that reside in my upper living room. I found a pair of B&W DM305's up for sale from a fella in a trailer park for $30.....$30! I snapped them up right away and they sat in my basement for a number of months, until, I found a set of the Swan monitors, which had been up for sale for quite a long bit. Talked to the guy and he was tired of having them up there and noone buying....I said it was probably just that they were small powered monitors and wasn't a huge market for that, I proposed we trade even as the Bowers floorstanders would likely be an easier sell. He agreed and was a direct swap.
That was actually a double win, as I was busy so had him meet me at an art show I was working with. After trade, he wandered and had a drink and looked at things, then bought one of my paintings as well!
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
Hey Trev good idea for a post.

1. Headphone
a. first pair, current pair, necessary accessories, maintenance tips.

I bought a pair of headphones only for one reason, so my girlfriend can sleep when she comes over. I have my set-up in my room so this is the reason for my headphones. I bought the cheapest pair I can get and I barely use them... However when I do, they come in handy. I think I paid 30 bucks for them at best buy.

b. How did you come to afford your current setup? (Just a good job? Financing? How much time approximately saving up?)

I had a neighbor friend next to my parents and he had a pair of PSB Golds for his mains and center and he had the Silvers for his rears. What a lovely set of speakers. They don't make them anymore but they are wonderful. This is how I found my love. I will admit that I don't know half of the stuff that a lot of people know here but I read these forums everyday and I learn something new each time.

So after hearing the golds... I was set on PSB. I bought a pair of Alpha monitors for 250 or so along with a Yamaha amp for around 400ish. I used this as a two channel system for movies and music. About a year later, I bought the PSB image center and again later I bought the subsonic 5i sub. It served me well for about 6 - 7 years and then I got my job as a teacher.

I now had some money to blow... Like I said, I've had my eye on PSBs all my life. They didn't make the golds anymore so I was looking at the synchrony ones. At 5k, and needing a receiver to handle them, I couldn't pull the trigger. I went to a local shop and I discovered the Totem line of speakers. I live in Ottawa and they manufacture them in Montreal. They sounded very musical and the imaging was fantastic. When you close your eyes, you can't tell where the speakers are placed. So I bought a set of Totem Forests for $3500 and a Pioneer Elite AVR for $2000ish. Walking into the store, I was set on separates but then quickly discovered that I could not afford them... I mean there is credit bought I couldn't drop 10k+ on stereo equipment before I got my first pay check.... lol

One thing I do suggest is to bargain with your dealer. I have done this with every piece of equipment I have ever bought. I got 500 dollars of my Totems and some other deal with the AVR. In the beginning, I also got discounts for the entry level PSBs that I already talked about.

2. AV Receiver

I talked about my AVR about but in the future, I will be getting some separates... I am looking hard a Mcintosh, Bryston, and Pass Labs (slim chance cause of price). The review from Gene caught my eyes hard and I would love to hear it in action. I am still interested in the PSB synchrony ones but first I will be completing my Totem 5.1 system. The only quality speakers I have now are the mains. The rest are still the old alphas for the rears (which is fine) and the center does not match my mains at all.... the PSB image. In fact, I think it's terrible. I will be getting the model one signature center from Totem to match my mains.

For the subs... I am looking at 2 SVS ultras... about 4k


a. First receiver, current receiver, maintenance tips, regrets?

talked about this above.
b. How did you come to afford your current setup? (Just a good job? Financing? How much time approximately saving up?)

Regarding saving, I got a no interest deal for 12 months and I paid off the 6k bill with no interest. I love to finance with no interest. Look into this when getting your equipment but make sure you can pay it off before the interest kicks in.


If you're starting out with your first system, I read an article about not wasting your money on big box items found at Best Buy and stores along those lines. Reason being that big stores sell AVRs that compromise on quality of components while boasting about how many watts the AVR putts out. In reality, you don't need a lot of watts to make your speakers sing. The article recommended skipping the big box store and going to your local audiophile store and getting an entry level AVR where the watts are not as big but the actual build quality is superior. Anyway, to me this made a lot of sense. I just tried to look up the article but I couldn't find it for you. Anyway, I think you get the idea.



Edit: AH HA! I found the artcile: http://isaacvw1976.hubpages.com/hub/Wattage-for-Stereo-and-Home-Theaters-Explained
 
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T

Trev

Audioholic
Dudes, all KILLER REPLIES! First Reflection... i have to curb my swearing man. You're FREAKING awesome. Right on the money of how I've been feeling lately. Even Dawg... I can horribly admit thoughts like that have crossed my mind lol.

Not to stray from the solid format of the thread and the astonishing solid advice its been yielding, but Headphones... and especially headphone amps I've been leaning towards investigating.

First set headphones... cans! My father owned an old old old set, that I don't recall. They wound up dying of age/loose connection... and I ran that through a giant 12"x2 speaker cab with radio tuner and tape deck that I had in my room at 5 years old :D. Man... MC Hammer was the shizz. (lol, half kidding. I was a kid listening to early dance music and Alice and Chains).

Currently... I picked up a pair of DN HP-1000 from Denon DJ (originally for my guitar amplifier)... now used in my laptop at work. Laptop: Lenovo T510 Conextant Audio drivers.

Load impedance: 36 ohms
Driver size: 53mm
Transducer type: dynamic
Frequency response: 5~33,000Hz
Channels: L/R stereo
Sensitivity (1mW): 105dB/mW (JEITA)
Maximum input: 3500mW

Before them... I thought I knew what life was about. I have a hard time imagining what a real, real, pair of headphones sound like. The other thing on my mind has been... what could these do... with a headphone amplifier...

Or... Would it be best to put the money into a real set of headphones that can go from like 2~45,000Hz+?

It kills me, and this is where I fall in line with first reflection... due to really weak circumstances... naturally involving a woman... I'm living back with family... in my old room. 3 way fronts... 3 ft apart.. center in between that. Surrounds a bed's headboard apart... with sub off to the left... running through an AVR354 which I unbelievably got suckered into paying a fortune for... of all places... at a Best Buy... quite a few years back.

...so you invest in really excellent fronts... or maybe suck it up and get the dream headphones instead... and save for the house...

Well that's my predicament anyhow, but this thread, is of course for everyone :). This info is phenominal. Hope to hear from more folks - especially with regard to headphone amps.

And thanks moves, for the article! Won't ever be letting that get me again. Man, I walked out of a best buy a few days ago looking for new RCA for my sub ... Rocketfish... $70! And a 5 ft ethernet... $25!! ... went to Zellers... 'High Quality' RCA 12', $7.00. Makes me think of "Sony Guts!".
 
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