Apple, and their iPod hypocrisy.

[Wafflesomd]

HOLY F'ING CHRIST WAGONS

"It is still Apple's problem, because Foxconn is still building iPods for Apple. Foxconn is getting a fair profit off every iPod they build for Apple. If you were to buy this red iPod with the notion that it is doing good in the world by helping AIDS, you are in fact supporting Apple's contract with Foxconn, and in turn supporting Foxconn's labor standards."

APPLE DOESNT OWN FOXCONN.


"Think of it this way. The only way that Apple can afford to give $10 to charity on these sales is because of the ridiculously low labor costs they have."

FOXCONN CAN RAISE PRICES.

"I understand that tons of companies use exploited workers. The reason this one bothers me is that many people will buy this iPod with the intention of doing good in the world, when they are actually supporting exploited workers in Asia."

APPLE DOESNT WON FOXCONN.


APPLE DOES NOT STATE THAT THE MONEY IS GOING TO ASIAN WORKERS, ITS GOING TO AIDS SUPPORT

STOP POSTING!

 

[rtcp]

Apple doesn't own Foxconn, but Foxconn builds the iPods that Apple sells. They are officially an ODM.

 

[Wafflesomd]

You Are F#cking Stupid.

 

[rtcp]

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the flaw in my logic.

 

[jonnythan]

How dare Apple donate money to AIDS care/research when one of their OEMs uses cheap Asian labor.

 

[rtcp]

Maybe someone else is willing to properly address the issues with my argument, instead of just calling me "F#cking Stupid".

 

[rtcp]

How dare Apple donate money to AIDS care/research when one of their OEMs uses cheap Asian labor.

I don't know if this is sarcastic, but this is exactly what I'm trying to get at. It is entirely hypocritical, and misleading for the buyer.

 

[Wafflesomd]

I cant say anything else, I've explained it already, three times.

You just dont get it.

How is this misleading, at all.

Apple only said that money is going to AID's funding. And it is, whats misleading?

 

[jonnythan]

Dude.

It's AIDS

 

[MDS]

Dude.

It's AIDS

Dude. Give it up. People put apostrophes where they don't belong on all kinds of acronyms - like CD's and DVD's.

 

[jonnythan]

I can somewhat understand putting an apostrophe on an acronym to pluralize it... but stripping a letter off an acronym, then reattaching it with an apostrophe is just nuts!

 

[AverageJoe]

Maybe someone else is willing to properly address the issues with my argument, instead of just calling me "F#cking Stupid".

I agree. It was an idiotic and abusive post, and IMHO he should be banned.

While I understand your comments, I'm not altruistic enough to base my purchases on the alleged abuses of manufacturers or their suppliers. Too many times there have been errors and exaggerations when these things are reported, and as warhummer mentioned, there are real or imagined issues everywhere. Even the links you provided had some interesting omissions - or at least needed some clarification:

Armed guards at facilities? Are they there for workers protection? Barbed wire? Several locations I've worked at had barbed wire (a guard, coded security locks, cameras, etc). $100 per month? A pittance in the USA, but a fortune in some parts of the world.

I'm not defending any actual abuse of workers if it really exists, but I also don't judge the working conditions in other countries and cultures based on our own. For example, I read once that a well-meaning "westerner", appalled by how little they were paying the local help, gave extra money to some workers in spite of being warned not to by the local government. I turned out that this kind gesture was making the workers targets for thieves who would kill them for their new "fortune".

I guess I'm pretty selfish. I didn't boycott grapes or tuna (some of you old guys might remember), I wear Nike's occasionally, and I'd rather put a lumberjack to work than save a Spotted Owl.

I think everyone should have a pet "issue" to support, and if this one floats your boat, good luck to you. It's not going to keep me awake nights, though.

 

[rtcp]

How is this misleading, at all.

Apple only said that money is going to AID's funding. And it is, whats misleading?

This product is supposed to look like philanthropy on the part of Apple. The people buying it are likely buying it because it helps the (PRODUCT)RED campaign against AIDS in Africa. Because it goes towards a good cause. But what the buyer probably doesn't know is that they are supporting a bad cause that Apple hasn't told them about: the 200,000-worker factory in China that builds those iPods.

 

[rtcp]

While I understand your comments, I'm not altruistic enough to base my purchases on the alleged abuses of manufacturers or their suppliers. Too many times there have been errors and exaggerations when these things are reported, and as warhummer mentioned, there are real or imagined issues everywhere. Even the links you provided had some interesting ommissions - or at least needed some clarification:

Fair enough. Maybe it's too soon to make these claims. It is true that the story hasn't developed entirely conclusive results at this point.

 

[zildjian]

$100 per month? A pittance in the USA, but a fortune in some parts of the world.

I'm not defending any actual abuse of workers if it really exists, but I also don't judge the working conditions in other countries and cultures based on our own.

This is very good point Joe and one that needs to be taken into consideration in this case. We have little of the needed details to make truly informed judgements in this case, so like most other people here, it won't keep me up at night.
What does keep me up at night is AIDS (Not Aid's or A.I.D.S., those don't bother me!), seriously though, anything that puts $ towards AIDS benefit is gravy and should be welcomed with opened arms. I had 6 patients with AIDS just in October alone (that's a ton for just in 4 weeks and it's not an AIDS clinic), it's a problem here in the USA much more than most people think, so as long as the money is not being killed for, any money for such benefit is a good thing, especially for those parts of the world where AIDS is so common. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go catch a few hours sleep in my iBed.

 

[Wafflesomd]

I'm done with this thread.

rtcp, you really need to take some smart pills.

Creat a valid argument, get valid respones. Create a stupid argument, well, you've managed to do that.

 

[rtcp]

I also don't judge the working conditions in other countries and cultures based on our own.

I entirely agree. The dollar value is also very important, and that is why I didn't actually quote any of the dollar figures. But Apple did find that some of their working conditions did not meet local labor law standards, or Apple's own labor standards.

 

[AverageJoe]

...But Apple did find that some of their working conditions did not meet local labor law standards, or Apple's own labor standards.

As I said, it's not a hot issue with me, but it sounds like Apple is being responsive and trying to correct a potential problem with a supplier.

And again, not to minimize the possible concerns you've mentioned, but as far as labor laws, standards, rules, etc.:

I'm willing to bet there are VERY few locations (if any) here in the US that are FULLY in compliance with all rules and regulations regarding labor practices, working conditions, and safety of their employees. I'm sure several OSHA, fire code, safety, Sarbanes-Oxley Act (don't ask), or record-keeping violation could be found in any work place you'd care to visit.

 

[jonnythan]

This product is supposed to look like philanthropy on the part of Apple. The people buying it are likely buying it because it helps the (PRODUCT)RED campaign against AIDS in Africa. Because it goes towards a good cause. But what the buyer probably doesn't know is that they are supporting a bad cause that Apple hasn't told them about: the 200,000-worker factory in China that builds those iPods.

It's more like:

Already buying an iPod? Here, buy the red one, and a part of the money goes to AIDS relief. Cool, huh?

 

[Sheep]

I agree. It was an idiotic and abusive post, and IMHO he should be banned.

Yeah, but that's just your average joe.

rtcp,

This would only be hypocritical is apple was sending money to help child labor, not A./I./D./S./!!@#!@#!#%@#$%.

Its just odd, that's all.

If you really want to make a difference, go protest infront of CC and BB. You could wear a body sign, and have a bull horn...

That would be totally tits.

SheepStar