Anyone see these from Onyx?

j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
It appears they have more in the "X" line coming and these look REALLY interesting. Danny Ritchie of GR Research had a hand in them, and I saw that family resemblance immediately, as the Eaton midbass used is similar/the same as the ones used in my speakers. The overall specs looks a LOT like the GR A/V-1, which would be something very exciting at the $199/pr price point! -3dB at 55Hz, very flat response, and good (simple) looks to boot! Looks like a winner to me.

 
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Sarius

Junior Audioholic
These look interesting. I did note that they cut of the frequency response graph at about 200 hz...

I've been listening to a pair of Axiom M2i's for the last several weeks, a bit more at $290, but an amazing sound for the price, so I know that great sound can be found in these little boxes at non-bankrupcy causing prices.
 
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Tex-amp

Senior Audioholic
That graph is done at 1/3 octave which means 3 measures per octave. I'd really like to see a 24 measures per octave graph.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I'd like to see more measurements too, but I still have a strong feeling these things are going to sound good. Danny explained one time why he does that type of measurement, something to do with the software he uses.

That midbass is one of the few that I think is actually as good if not bettter than the aerogel one in the CBM-170s. Only on speakers costing a LOT more have I heard that kind of detail.

Some friends brought over their speaker to listen to them in my setup. We had the M3ti, GR A/V-1s, Paradigm Mini Monitors and Paradigm Titans. The M3s were the second best of the bunch, but they didn't even come close to the best of the bunch, the A/V-1s. It isn't a fair comparison though, because the A/V-1s are $750 a pair fully loaded with all available upgrades (unless you build them yourself, then they are around $300-400-ish depending on the cost to build the cabinets)
 
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Tex-amp

Senior Audioholic
Ascend no longer uses an aerogel driver but a new proprietary polygel.

Measuring below 200Hz takes a lot of care as reflections are difficult and very close together with the original signal. It is a fairly common practice to gate measurements at 200Hz. Measuring at a higher rate than 3 measures per octave isn't hard to do at all.

According to AV123 the drivers for the X-LS are from Peerless India.
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Tex-amp said:
Ascend no longer uses an aerogel driver but a new proprietary polygel.
In the SEs right? I'd really like to hear those guys too....

Measuring below 200Hz takes a lot of care as reflections are difficult and very close together with the original signal. It is a fairly common practice to gate measurements at 200Hz. Measuring at a higher rate than 3 measures per octave isn't hard to do at all.
I can't speak for them regarding how or why the measurements are the way they are, but I have owned the speakers that these appear to be based on and I loved them. My current speakers are D'Appollito versions of those, the A/V-2, and it seems that Onyx will also offer one like that for a center as well.

According to AV123 the drivers for the X-LS are from Peerless India.
Yep, that's where they're made. I thought they were originally Eaton, but all I know for sure is they were made in India and those are them. I have one sitting at my desk right now...and there is no manufacturer's name on them. The tweeters in the GRs come from China, but the one used in the X-LS is different than what is used in the A/V-1 - it looks like a Peerless or Morel, but can't tell for sure.
 
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silversurfer

Senior Audioholic
I have heard the A/V-2's and earlier CMT-340's and CBM-170's. I think it is safe to say they sound different, all very nice. One of those "comes down to tastes" issues. For me, the A/V-2 sounded "soft", a tad rolled off highs.

The SE versions of the Ascends would be very interesting, not so much of the new Polygell mid-woofer, which in itself is supposedly improved over the previous Aerogel unit, but moreso because of the custom tooled Seas tweeter. Even the most inexpensive Seas tweeter gets high praises, and can not be found on traditional speakers in the price range. Hope to hear one of these new versions soon.

The XL-S looks very nice. I am very interested in hearing this as well. Not meant as a slam, but AV123, eventhough with they high regard in customer support, does not seem to be as upfront with the technicals of their products. I think that is important for an internet direct company to get as much of this type of info out there. One thing for sure, with AV123 building the cabinet, the speakers will definitely look good.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Well, I've heard the 750SEs and I can't say that I was entirely impressed. They had Paradigm written all over them, sounding almost identical to the 100s (though it a MUCH nicer looking cabinet :D ). I guess I expected a little more.

When I switched from Paradigm to my A/V-2s I initially had the impression that they sounded too soft too, but I found with much listening that I was actually hearing MORE detail with them because there was no "tinny", overly crisp sound to them. I like the fact that I can hear the detail without there being anything else there. That was the main thing I didn't like about the Paradigms, both the Monitors and the Studios. I've always preferred soft dome tweeters in general too though.

Some of my other favorite speakers are the Joseph Audio RM7s and they use SEAS drivers. Amazing speakers, definitely not in the price range of the 170SE or 340SE though :)

I actually shot an e-mail over to Danny to see what his thoughts were on the X-LS.
 
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silversurfer

Senior Audioholic
I have never heard Studio 100's, but I have heard the 750SE. Like you, I was not impressed.

For the AV2, I understand you, but for me, lively or life like crispness was not there. Difference tastes, but I can definitely see how people would like them.

Danny Ritchie designed the XL-S, what do you expect him to say? I read a post of his over at AVS, and it read like AV123 marketing. I can't find the thread now.
 
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ichigo

Full Audioholic
What is polygel?

What is polygel?

Aerogel is a combination of kevlar and carbon fibre. Is polygel polypropelene PP and kevlar (or cb)?
 
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Tex-amp

Senior Audioholic
I am fairly certain there is no Kevlar in Aerogel. You'll need to ask Ascend what the carbon fibre is mixed with for poly gel.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
silversurfer said:
Danny Ritchie designed the XL-S, what do you expect him to say? I read a post of his over at AVS, and it read like AV123 marketing. I can't find the thread now.
I've discussed speaker stuff with him via e-mail previously; he's a good guy, so I don't think he would shoot me off a canned marketing fluff e-mail. I would hope for a more personal opinion of them. So far no response though... I think he actually used to work for them or some other manufacturer and then he went off on his own.
 
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jmanlp

Audioholic
About these speakers, they look like an very good value, and I can't wait to see some reviews and maybe a matching floorstanding model if they are as good as they are made out to be.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I found an opinion of them from a beta tester:

Sean Fowler

Living a less than ritzy life-style has been the driving factor for my many acquaintances with speakers in the sub $500 bracket. You could say that the only ‘ice’ I gots’ is in da fridge’. In today’s world of cheap hi-fi, you will find no shortage of toys to choose from. Slam down five Benjamin’s and you will receive a well polished product that will have you singing in the rain Gene Kelly style. So what happens when you have only two Benjamin’s burning a hole in your pocket? The answer is: not a whole lot.

Mark Schifter, the head cheese at av123 decided to enter these stomping grounds with a series of products dubbed simply, “X”. Why this name was adorned to this series is far beyond me, but I got a hunch it has nothing to do with high octane, high performance stunts. Instead, Marks pursuits are even bolder than the risk of a neck-brace; he wants to risk his reputation by entering the ultra affordable market in a way no one has previously dared to before.

Enter the x-ls bookshelf speakers. Audio guru Danny Richie of GR Research was recruited to not only take on the challenge of designing a speaker that embodies everything Mark wants av123 to be known for, but he has also tasked with designing a speaker to set new standards in its class. So when I was given an offer to be one of the first to play with these new x-ls monitor’s, I wagged my tail and impatiently waited for RMAF’05 to end so I could get my fix.


Batten down the hatches Mr. Schmee…


“Wow”. That was the first and only word that managed to roll off my tongue after I hefted Mark Schifter’s new x-ls monitors out of their box. What trickery was this? This ill prepared audiophool was baffled at the sight before his eyes. Surely there must have been a mistake. The sheer size and flawlessly applied white shadow maple veneer suggests a speaker in a different league. Caught off guard, Mark had to re-assure me that the pricing really was $199 for a pair.

This new creature from Onix is an 8 ohm, 87db rear-ported two-way design that tips the scale at just under 18 lbs, with measurements of D x 13.1’’ H x 13” W x 8.4”. It uses a triple dampened 1” fabric dome tweeter crossed over at 2kHz with a custom built 6.5” treated paper cone mid/woofer that rests on a non-resonant polymer chassis. If you are the morbidly curious type and enjoy seeing the insides, you will be pleased to find a cabinet that is well braced with seven dowel rod-like braces per box. Clearly, these are not your ordinary off-the-shelf Wal-mart specials.

While I love to ‘mix it up’ by pairing stratosphere priced electronics with inexpensive speakers and visa versa, my current existence has me saying fare-well to many expensive and shiny gadgets. Never one to be left completely without clothes, I always make sure to have a hidden trick or two up my sleeve. In this case, that trick is the famous and fabulous 30 watt per channel Teac A-L700P chip amplifier, which is bout as close as you can get to av123’s up-coming “X” power amplifier line that will serve to compliment the x-ls’s. While some daring few will pair $199 speakers with their limited run exotic electronics to see the top of the mountain just to say they can, most to-be owners of these speakers will pair this with respectively priced electronics. For purposes of this review, I felt it best to stay in accordance to the target market.


Turn it up!


Having been afforded the luxury of a broken-in pair of speakers, I dove right into my eclectic collection of tunes with a strong peace of mind. Listening to the x-ls made things immediately clear that there was much more to these speakers than pretty looks! Danny Richie and Mark hit the bulls-eye. These are the real deal, which now brings me to a unique situation. I can slam the gavel down and consider this a case closed review with no further commentary and piss off a whole lot of readers. Or I could share my excitement and give others an idea of how good the pie really is. Well, since I do have some extra time on my hands…

The x-ls signature can be best described as coherent and smooth. In fact, the high-end is so non-fatiguing that it took me half of a good day to acquaint myself with sound without bite or grit. Most speakers that offer such a smooth top end sacrifice a great detail of resolution. Alex De Grassi’s contemporary guitar folk music captivates you with every note as you hear his fingers slide over the cat strings in dazzling rhythm. Russia’s popular band, Zemfira, is reproduced in all its glory of cold, gloom and doom melodies, with a unique blend of pop and modern goth riffs. From head-banging hard metal delivered by Metallica’s “Master of Puppet” album to DJ Tiestos addicting pace setting beats from “Delerium”, the x-ls showed no signs of favoritism to any particular genre. What a sensation it is to pull out an old disc you never listen to due to some engineer with a severe case of tinnitus, all the while getting everything you could ask for from ‘little girl with guitar’ audiophile approved recordings without feeling like you are missing something.

Sporting an anechoic 3db response at 55hz with in-room response in the mid to upper 40’s, the x-ls worked very little to push enough air to fill those lower octaves with robust and powerful bass. While the bass did not shock with raw chest pounding ferocity, the performance manages to remind you that it’s all about the goods on the table rather than what’s off. Those in a smaller room may find no real need for a sub.

With lights dimmed I sat there listening, almost forgetting about the review I had to write. Who has time anyway? The soul-full styling of Erykah Badu filled the air, with the promise of an emotional experience from husky vocalist Diana Krall to follow.

I just cannot find anything to criticize. How critical should one be when reviewing a pair of speakers that total $199? Where is the line between a legitimate complaint and recognition of a flaw, and flat out nit-pickiness?


Too good to be true ?


To prevent this review from turning into soggy banter, there are a few non omissible caveats that require attention. The most prolific of which is the absence of shielding around the mid/woofer magnet. Those who plan on placing the x-ls within close proximity of a CRT or computer may have to find a creative alternative.

While Danny Richie has developed a jaw dropping speaker, one should not expect ultimate transparency and tone that you would typically look for in the mega buck systems. Danny also voiced this speaker in such a way that those who like a bit of salsa on their chips may be left wanting something a bit more aggressive on the top end.

The veneer and build quality on the x-ls are immaculate and astonishing for their price. They are also big. Many bookshelf units are not deep enough to accommodate them. One who does not plan on using speaker stands must either own one monsterous bookshelf or have a landing pad set up before placing an order. Mounting these speakers on the wall is not an option.

Having owned products from Totem Acoustic’s for many years, I have become accustom to my speakers singing commando-style. I also have no children of my own nor do I have my stereo equipment in high traffic areas. There are many who cannot afford those amenities. Those in such a position know how a speaker grill can mean the difference between a tweeters life and a tweeters death. As of now, there is no official word on whether or not speaker grills will be included with the x-ls.


The final verdict


AV123’s success and popularity as an online factory-direct operation has grown considerably through the years, becoming highly regarded for their astounding customer support and exceptional products. Really, those are all necessary facets if the majority of your sales travel by word of mouth and repeat business. Mark confided to me that he wants to introduce a series that will forever make a statement on what his company is all about with products that almost anyone can afford. After my experience with the x-ls speakers, there is not much left to say except that I believe this is yet another ambition that will be fully realized.

How pleasantly absurd it is to get so much performance from a pair of speakers costing so little. Danny Richie’s brilliance is crystal clear with these speakers. Whether you are an audiophile or someone who wants something beyond a HTIB, the x-ls can fit perfectly into a bedroom, office, personal gym, study, computer room, or even in a college dorm! With a 30 day trial policy, there is no excuse why anyone even considering their first or second system should not put these on the short list.

What a sneaky devil you are Mark, offering these delicious apples from the audio tree, knowing full well that anyone who dares to take a nibble will forever be intoxicated with the desire to never taste anything less again in their lives!
 
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ichigo

Full Audioholic
Tex-amp said:
I am fairly certain there is no Kevlar in Aerogel. You'll need to ask Ascend what the carbon fibre is mixed with for poly gel.
Maybe these guys are wrong, but anyway...


"Aerogel is a "new" material that is suppose to have the benefits of kevlar, carbon fiber"...

http://kahuna.sdsu.edu/~tucker/diyaudio/aerogel.html

"HD-Aerogel (HDA). An Audax proprietary material, HDA combines carbon fiber and Kevlar in a matrix of acrylic. In the past, some of the Audax HDA drivers have been well reported while others have caused problems. As the technology has matured, Audax has been able to achieve a level of performance and consistency that was lacking in their first-generation HDA drivers. The key to this is in Audax's part numbering system where the digit(s) following the material designation ('Z' in the case of HDA) represents the design number. In the past, Audax changed specs without changing the part number. The most recent drivers clearly designate their generation - up to 18 in the case of the 6.5" HDA drivers."

http://ldsg.snippets.org/appdx-b.php3#OVERVIEW

"Nearly as remarkable is the new 6" Audax Aerogel midrange. Aerogel is by-product of space program research and is a silicon-based solid 1,000 times less dense than glass with a porous, sponge-like structure in which 99.8 percent of the volume is empty space. The aerogel cone is an amalgam of carbon powder, Kevlar threads, cellulose acetate pulp and a liquid binder with similarities to ceramic material when dry."

http://www.vonschweikert.com/vr4genIIISE_ST_review.htm
 
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silversurfer

Senior Audioholic
j_garcia said:
I found an opinion of them from a beta tester:
I read that review over at AV123 as well, you can find review like that over there about the 750SE that you and I don't think highly about as well. :)
 
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silversurfer

Senior Audioholic
ichigo said:
Maybe these guys are wrong, but anyway...


"Aerogel is a "new" material that is suppose to have the benefits of kevlar, carbon fiber"...

http://kahuna.sdsu.edu/~tucker/diyaudio/aerogel.html

"HD-Aerogel (HDA). An Audax proprietary material, HDA combines carbon fiber and Kevlar in a matrix of acrylic. In the past, some of the Audax HDA drivers have been well reported while others have caused problems. As the technology has matured, Audax has been able to achieve a level of performance and consistency that was lacking in their first-generation HDA drivers. The key to this is in Audax's part numbering system where the digit(s) following the material designation ('Z' in the case of HDA) represents the design number. In the past, Audax changed specs without changing the part number. The most recent drivers clearly designate their generation - up to 18 in the case of the 6.5" HDA drivers."

http://ldsg.snippets.org/appdx-b.php3#OVERVIEW

"Nearly as remarkable is the new 6" Audax Aerogel midrange. Aerogel is by-product of space program research and is a silicon-based solid 1,000 times less dense than glass with a porous, sponge-like structure in which 99.8 percent of the volume is empty space. The aerogel cone is an amalgam of carbon powder, Kevlar threads, cellulose acetate pulp and a liquid binder with similarities to ceramic material when dry."

http://www.vonschweikert.com/vr4genIIISE_ST_review.htm
Yeah, that is Aerogel. As for the difference between Aerogel and Polygel, I do not know about the composition, but I believe on the Ascend forum, it has been stated that Polygel is less brittle/fragile and handles the upper mids more to Ascend's liking.
 
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craigsub

Audioholic Chief
silversurfer said:
I read that review over at AV123 as well, you can find review like that over there about the 750SE that you and I don't think highly about as well. :)
Silversurfer - From whom would you need to read a positive review in order for it to be credible ? :)
 
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Tex-amp

Senior Audioholic
Learn something new all the time. Kevlar it is. Audax no longer supplies Ascend's drivers.
 
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silversurfer

Senior Audioholic
craigsub said:
Silversurfer - From whom would you need to read a positive review in order for it to be credible ? :)
Did I say it wasn't credible? :)

But if you must know, me. :D
 

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