Any Wise Advice for a "Good Value" System?

[Unregistered]

I have read quiet a bit of the information on this site and the discussion boards and though it is very helpful, I must admit that I am still a little lost. I am in mechanical engineering so it is not that technology intimidates me ... I just have yet to get into audio enough to understand all the terms and factors and brands that are thrown around. But I am trying to learn ...

That being said, I was hoping you could provide some advice. I am hoping to build a nice little home theater. Currently, I have a smaller apartment living room to work with (14 X 12); in a year or so, I will have a house. My first priority is television/moving viewing, but I do hope to be able to get some great audio for CD's, MP3's, etc. What I currently have is not fancy:

Sony 27fs100 television
Sony DVP NS725P Dvd Player
VCR
Series 2 TiVo (standalone)
Nintendo 64 (old school I guess)

My goal is to add some speakers and a receiver. Eventually, I would like to build off of this system (say, upgrade the speakers later, upgrade the television, etc). Thus, I am trying to get some real quality items that will last a long time. Here is what I have been considering:

A/V Receivers:
Harmon Kardon AVR 130 or 230 (but I hear it doesn't play nice with various speakers and has a cheap volume dial that breaks--but the auto set up of the 230 would be real nice)
Onkyo SR 502

As for speakers, I considered getting seperates but they seemed a little more than I could handle price-wise. Currently, I am considering:
Polk Audio RM 6700 ($599) which comes with a sub (the PSW202 I believe). I have not seen very good reviews on the sub but I did hear these speakers in a store and they sounded decent.
Harman Kardon HKTS 14 ($460) (or HKTS 7 at $300) ( (includes what I hear is a pretty nice sub)
I also considered the Bose Acoustimass 6 Series III b/c I could get them for about $300 but I have been convinced by an instore demo that they are not very succesful at creating the midrange and rely too much on the sub.

What are your thoughts? Ultimately, I want to stay under $1000 for a A/V receiver and the speakers. Hopefully, some of the components will be able to be reused when I upgrade in a couple years. Is there any suggestions for a better way to spend the $1000?

I have read the $1000 Audioholics Recommended system but I hadn't heard of those speakers so I was a little hesitant. Of course, I haven't heard of much as I am pretty new to this "field."

Also, if you think there is considerable value if I exceed the $1000 budget, I am willing to make concessions.

Thanks for all of your help. It is greatly appreciated.

Have a great day,

Chris

(I am sorry for the lengthy post --- thanks for your patience)

 

[zipper]

You're gonna have a rough go of it @ $1000. Try to find a lower powered receiver with good features & pre-outs(Yamaha 1400 comes to mind).It will be less expensive & later you can add an amp to it. Are you looking for a surround system now? Or just a good pair of speakers that you can add to later?

 

[hopjohn]

Try the JVC RX7030VBK

This JVC model would be great for getting started. It is loaded with features for their it's price class. If you want to spend a little more I would go with the Yamaha 1400.

Athena makes lower end models, but from the same Canadian company that makes Energy and Mirage speakers, both of which you have probably heard of.

I'm of the belief that you build your system with the technology that changes the slowest, first. Start with the speakers since they will be pretty much as modern today as they will be 10 years from now. New TV models should begin rolling out late summer early fall.

 

[Unregistered]

Thank you both for the reply. Because my primary use will be for DVD viewing, I guess I thought I would jump right in to surround speakers. But if you think it would be wiser to just purchase two or three good speakers now and build off them, I could consider that. Will I be missing out? I don't want to waste my money on some poor speakers, but having surround sound would be a pretty nice change (of course, anything is better than using my TV's speakers which is what I am doing now).

The Yamaha 1400 looks pretty sweet but I don't know if I will be using it to its full potential. THX certification intimidates me because I doubt the rest of my components are (or will be) up to snuff.

The JVC is an interesting idea. Any reason why it is better than the HK or Onkyo receivers I mentioned?

Does anyone have a thought on what speakers to go with? Should I get one of the speaker sets I mentioned in my post or a different set? Should I buy a couple of nice quality ones seperately? I really have no idea what to do but I do like the idea of spending my biggest dollars on the components that are least likely to be "out of date" the quickest.

Also, is the Polk Audio sub mentioned above (comes free with a set) any good? I have heard some bad reviews on it but its hard to tell. They did not have that sub hooked up at the store I was at.

 

[nm2285]

My family owns the Polk system you're considering minus the sub. I think it performs very nicely for a sub/sat system, but bookshelf speakers will always give you more sound.
The 202 is a very average sub in my opinion. We bought a Velodyne CHT-8 instead and I'm very happy with that.

If the room you're going to put the system in will be fairly large, I'd personally go with 3 larger speakers (front mains and a center) and a larger sub. Build off of that, or, if you can't wait to get into surround sound, get a very cheap pair of surround speakers (something from radio shack maybe?) just to fill the void for now. As long as you're not doing multi-channel music listening, it'll do ok for the time.

As for recommendations:
For more sub/sat systems: Athena, Polk, Energy (big fan), Definitive Technology
For Bookshelf: Athena AS-B1 or AS-B2, Polk RTi series, NHT SB1 (I own the SB2s and LOVE them), Energy C1 or C3, Paradigm Titan
For Subwoofers: A good one is hard to find in this price range, but check offerings from Velodyne, JBL (more for movies), and Athena (more for music)

You already made a great decision in turning down the Bose!

Receivers: the Onkyo is a good choice, I think the JVC may be too as I've owned one of their other receiver's previously. I hear good things about Panasonic and have also had a pleasant personal experience with the Denon AVR-1604. The Pioneer VSX-D812 is a great deal now that it's been replaced by the 814...this may be your best bet.

Good Luck! Hope this helped a bit.

 

[nm2285]

Forgot to mention: Harman Kardon makes a great product. My family owns the AVR-225 (identical i think to the 230 minus the faceplate). It is a high quality unit. the 230 may be slightly high for your budget though.

Check www.accessories4less.com for Marantz electronics and Mourdaunt-Short speakers. Both are great brands and this website has incredible deals sometimes.

 

[Unregistered]

nm2285 -

Thanks for the help! That was a great starting place. Here is what I am thinking of going with:

Mordaunt Short Premier (4 MS302 sats, 1 MS304 center)
Mordaunt Short MS309W or MS308W sub (if I can find one to buy)
Either Onkyo SR502 or Pioneer 812 receiver (I didn't see any major differences but the set up feature of the Pioneer seemed helpful)

I still have thoughts: These M-S speakers "sound" great (pun) in reviews but I have no idea how I can test them out stateside. Very few places seem to carry them. In fact, the website you listed was the only online retailer that listed them. A related question: is the online retailer site you listed a good place to buy? They seem to have some great deals and I am repeatedly learning that if it sounds good to be true, it just might be (though I would love to save the money).

Would a Velodyne CHT-8 or CHT-10 work in well in place of the M-S sub? I thought I would go with the M-S mostly b/c it would match the others (asthetically and hopefully acoustically).

Also, will this be hard to set up once I have it all? I don't know if I have a good "ear" for what are the right settings. This is why I would tend to lean towards the Pioneer receiver (or an H-K possibly) b/c it seems like it has a feature that helps take care of this for me.

Thanks again to all for your help.
Chris

 

[nm2285]

Marantz is America's Mordaunt-Short distributer, so check out Marantz.com's dealer section for a place around you-if they sell Marantz, they may also have Mordaunt-Short.

I can't say whether or not the MS's would be your favorite speaker, but I have auditioned them head-to-head with what may be my favorite sub-$500 bookshelf speaker, the Energy C3 (my own NHT SB2s are the other possible favorite). The MS held their own. They are definately a high quality speaker.

Accessories4less.com is an authorized dealer of most if not all the brands they sell. I've purchased cables and accessories from them a few times and have always been happy.

The Pioneer is rated at 100W vs the Onkyo's 75W but the Onkyo weighs more than the Pioneer: shouldn't be much difference in power. I personally think the Pioneer is more engaging for music. For movies, they'll both do a great job. Find a good deal and go with either.

Using a Velodyne sub will be fine if you want to go that route. I haven't heard the MS subs, so not sure about them. Theres no way to match a sub acoustically since it should be playing notes that will have very little overlap with the other speakers. Don't worry about that. I would recommend getting a 10 inch or larger sub if you're room will be fairly large. If it needs to be compact, check out Pinnacle: they're not usually the best word in value, but you can find deals on them pretty often and they're good performers. Look at www.onecall.com for some deals on JBL, Velodyne, Infinity, and maybe Atlantic Tech (don't know much about their subs).

Setup should not be overly difficult. Like I said, the 2 receivers are very comparable, so if you like the idea of the Pioneer setup, get it. Otherwise, don't worry about it. You'll be able to do a decent job on your own.

Glad to be able to help!

 

[Unregistered]

Final Thoughts

Thank you again for your replies. They have been very helpful.

I have everything narrowed down to a few choices and I would like to hear what people think.

For Speakers:
Mordaunt-Short Premiers Sat System (includes 4 Sats and 1 Center w/ 3.5" woofers; 1" tweeters; 100-20k Hz freq. response; 15-80 Watts)
OR
NHT System (includes 2 SuperOnes w/ 6" woofers; 1" tweeters; 57-25k Hz. freq. response; 25-150 Watts; AND 2 SuperZeros AND 1 SuperCenter)

The NHT System comes with a Velodyne CHT-8 (35-140 Hz; 130 W; 8") subwoofer. Taking that value out of the package, there is about a $150 difference between the packages (with the NHT package being the greater).

For the M-S System, I would be choosing between the following subs:
Fosgate FA10.0 (27-100 Hz; 200 W; 10")
OR
Velodyne CHT-10 (28-120 Hz; 150 W; 10")
OR
JBL E150P (Northridge Series) (25-150 Hz; 150 W; 10")

I found these to be at a similar price range with the Fosgate topping the list (about $50 more than the others).

So my questions are:
Which Speaker system would be best, the M-S or the NHT? Is the NHT worth the extra $150? Does it matter that the NHT system is paired with the CHT-8 sub? Is there a major advantage to the lower frequency reponse of the NHTs?
AND
Assuming I choose the M-S system (or that I could upgrade the NHT sub), which sub is best?

I will most likely be using a Pioneer VSX-D812 receiver.

Thanks for all of your help,

Chris

P.S. Do I need to get fancy cables or will any do?

 

[nm2285]

Having never heard the series of NHT you're talking about, I can't do much to help you. I can say, make sure you use the SuperOnes as mains because the Zeros are notoriously difficult to match with a subwoofer. Using them as surrounds should be fine. I don't think you can go wrong with either the MS or the NHT system. Maybe, if you get the NHTs with the CHT-8, you can add another CHT-8 to help fill your room better?

The NHTs may make music listening a bit nicer since they have the luxury of providing some of their own bass, not just relying on a sub. This may create a slightly fuller sound.

As for subs, drop the JBL. Its much boomier than the Velodyne. Don't know anything about Fosgate, though. I'd say Velodyne is definately the safe bet.

 

[Unregistered]

Harmon Kardon DPR 1001-Z = $498

or

AVR-520 = $398

or

stick with the AVR-130 for $231

I have purchased from the Harman Outlet, they have pretty good service.

For speakers,

2 Pr PartsExpress BR-1 = $280

1 Dayton {url=http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=300-632&DID=7]100W Powered Sub[/url] = $124

Total = $635-$902 (plus about $15-$30 for shipping), leaves you about $50 for some cables or cinder blocks to put the speakers on .


Good luck, let us know what you do

 

[Unregistered]

Thank you for the advice, but I don't think I'm up to building my own speakers. Soldering just sounds too intimidating.

As for what I have decided, it seems that my indecision has cost me my options: The M-S Premiere package I wanted to get is no longer in stock, and neither is the NHT Superones/Superzeroes. I really don't want to spend much more than $500-600 for 5 speakers and a sub but I also don't want them to (1) look like crap and (2) sound like crap. Perhaps this is an unrealistic goal.

I guess for now I will get nothing. Oh well... If anyone hears of a great deal, let me know.

Thanks again,

Chris

 

[Unregistered]

Soldering is very easy! Thats an excellent deal though.


Ok, you could try this. Buy 5 Infiniti Entra center channels, and the Dayton Powered Sub, then the AVR-520 above.

Thats $89x5, $124, and $398 = $967

Some affordable full-sized speakers, that are all voice matched.

 

[Unregistered]

nm2285,

i have noticed your admiration of the NHT SB2's. how would you say these stack up to some of the internet based speaker manufacturers such as Aperion and Axiom?

thanks for your help

chris

(and yes, my budget for speakers is slowly increasing ... is it a disease? should i be worried?)

 

[packers037]

If your still looking I have a suggestion for you. Go to ebay and do a search for "theater research". Look for the one with a buy it now for $299.99 and make sure that they are the TR-2800 and TR-2801 (there will be 5 speakers all together with a total of 1400w). With s/h the price will be a little over $400.
I bought a set off of the person thats selling them and had no trouble. I finelly got them hooked up and could not believe how good they sounded.

I hope that this helps you out a little

 

[nm2285]

NHTs

Sorry for the late response, just read the thread. I don't think the NHTs would have much a problem at all against the competition. I've heard them against MANY bookshelf speakers in their price range and above it. Unfortunately, I can't answer your question too well because I've had no experience with either internet brand. My only hesitation is that the NHTs are very very difficult to find at a discount while internet brands are supposedly great values since they've eliminated the middle man...maybe they'll be the better value? Can't say unless you try them.

 

[Unregistered]

packers,

thanks for the tip. i took a look and the speakers do look nice. i am a little hesitant however b/c i have never heard of theater research.

nm2285,

thanks for the reply. i am going to order some internet ones, purchase some NHT's from a local dealer (if i can find some) and do an A B C comparison. i am no audiophile (yet) but hopefully i can tell a difference. i may also purchase some variety of Polk Audio to test those out as well and see if there is a difference. it will be a lot of credit on the account but most places allow 30 returns so hopefully it all works out.

chris

 

[saguppy]

Chris,
Funny I ran into this article. I'm also a mechanical engineer and I'm still learning about home theater, but I'm a little further along in the process I guess. I'm about to graduate from college so hopefully I will soon be leaving the apartment living for a house as well. I started putting my system together about 2.5 years ago. At first I had the same goals, including a price range and concerns about moving tons of equipment around. That didn't last long, haha.
I started out with a $380 yamaha home theater receiver, a $400 used set of Polk Audio rt800i's, a $180 Panasonic dvd changer (they were expensive back then), and about $60 worth of monster cable. That's about $1000, eh? Wish I could say that's all Ive spent since (ouch). I have always been very happy with the polk speakers, and will not upgrade any time soon. Personally, I would buy the best quality front stage that you can afford and add the surround speakers later as an upgrade, especially if you intend on listening to a lot of music.
It is always a matter of your personal opinion as to which speakers best suit your taste, but I will put my vote in for polk audio, especially if you are willing to check the used markets. You may also check circuit city because the current polk models have just been discontinued and are still on clearance in some areas.
As for the receiver choice, I just recently upgraded to a Denon receiver and i would recommend that you check out Denon, onkyo, and harman kardon as my top three favorites for your price range. Many denon and onkyo refurbished receivers can be had on ecost.com for cheaper prices, and I know that ecost is an authorized denon dealer.
Just my .02 cents.

Chad

 

[packers037]

I never heard of them either untill I stumbled upon them on ebay. I hooked them up to a yamaha receiver along with a philips dvd player (both that I got at best buy) and it sounds just as good if not better then a movie theater.