Antimode IIS and 2-channel connections - Help!

[dodgers831]

I've posted this at AVS but I think the question may be too dumb to deal with, but I'll try here anyhow.

Just when I thought I was making a move for a new avr (Denon x2200W) to power my 2.1 channel system, I started rethinking the Antimode option. I currently have a NAD c370 int amp, but thought it would be my best option to get an Denon avr so I could use Audyssey to room correct my speakers and sub, while also being able to play HD files. But because I figure I'm keeping the NAD regardless, it would be nice to pair it with a DSP of some kind. I've looked at the DSPeaker website and read the manual, but I'm confused with the 2.1 hookup diagram. My NAD C370 has pre-outs. But if I use the pre-outs to connect to the Antimode, then connect the Antimode to my sub through the Antimode line-out, doesn't that leave my mains nowhere? I always thought that if I use the amp's pre-outs, I need to send the signals back to the amp's pre-ins so that my mains would get signal. If I connect the Antimode, how does the signal get to my mains? Am I wrong about this? This question reveals my inexperience with these matters, I know. But I could use a hand figuring this out in my head before I decide to go this route. A simple line diagram would be helpful with your explanation; I gotta "see" stuff to get it. Thanks ahead of time.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

I can’t find anything about a model IIS on Antimode’s site.

Regardless, it appears from the NAD’s manual that the 370 has two sets of pre-amp outputs. Pre-Out 1 is normally connected to the Main In jacks via jumper plugs, so your main speakers are covered. You could easily use Pre-Out 2 for your sub, with the Antimode connected in front of it.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[fuzz092888]

I can’t find anything about a model IIS on Antimode’s site.

Regardless, it appears from the NAD’s manual that the 370 has two sets of pre-amp outputs. Pre-Out 1 is normally connected to the Main In jacks via jumper plugs, so your main speakers are covered. You could easily use Pre-Out 2 for your sub, with the Antimode connected in front of it.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

It's down towards the bottom of the page on the chart comparing the different 8033 models.

http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/anti-mode-8033.shtml


What Wayne said.

 

[dodgers831]

I can’t find anything about a model IIS on Antimode’s site.

Regardless, it appears from the NAD’s manual that the 370 has two sets of pre-amp outputs. Pre-Out 1 is normally connected to the Main In jacks via jumper plugs, so your main speakers are covered. You could easily use Pre-Out 2 for your sub, with the Antimode connected in front of it.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Wayne - Wow. So simple. Duh! No wonder no one was responding. Thanks.

So, the mains run full and the sub is room-corrected. Hmmm. So, it's a trial and error to hear what sounds best as far as the low filter crossover setting, right? I have Philharmonitors/AlexisSound that are pretty solid to around 40hz. Any suggestions on where I should start the crossover? Thanks.

 

[fuzz092888]

Wayne - Wow. So simple. Duh! No wonder no one was responding. Thanks.

So, the mains run full and the sub is room-corrected. Hmmm. So, it's a trial and error to hear what sounds best as far as the low filter crossover setting, right? I have Philharmonitors/AlexisSound that are pretty solid to around 40hz. Any suggestions on where I should start the crossover? Thanks.

It would be helpful knowing what sub you are using before suggesting a crossover. Generally speaking starting around 80-100Hz and adjusting up or down from there is advisable. Just be aware that going higher than that might make the sub easily localizable.

 

[dodgers831]

It would be helpful knowing what sub you are using before suggesting a crossover. Generally speaking starting around 80-100Hz and adjusting up or down from there is advisable. Just be aware that going higher than that might make the sub easily localizable.

Right now I'm using the Rocket 10 ULW, but will be purchasing a Rythmik L12 in the future. My room is small to medium (@13 x 13 w/vaulted ceiling) and crowded with stuff, including an upright piano; floor is rugged; room is open to hallway on one side. Question: by running the mains full and crossing over at 80-100Hz isn't there a lot of overlap? Thanks, Fuzz.

 

[fuzz092888]

Right now I'm using the Rocket 10 ULW, but will be purchasing a Rythmik L12 in the future. My room is small to medium (@13 x 13 w/vaulted ceiling) and crowded with stuff, including an upright piano; floor is rugged; room is open to hallway on one side. Question: by running the mains full and crossing over at 80-100Hz isn't there a lot of overlap? Thanks, Fuzz.

You want a lot of overlap for a couple reasons.

First, the more overlap you have the more flexibility you have with different crossovers, higher lower, more overlap = more flexibility which is good because you never know what will be best for your specific room until you try/measure.

Second the crossover isn't a brick wall and both the sub and speakers will play still be giving useful output up to an octave or two depending on crossover slope. I believe the antimode uses 24db/oct slopes so you'll still be getting output above and below your crossover point. This is important because if the speakers or sub has a large extension advantage above or below the crossover point over the other it can possibly create an imbalance, necessitating a different, less ideal crossover point.

The Phil's are good speakers, but even though they deliver extension down to 40Hz or so (which is probably the -3db point) you definitely want to select a crossover at least an octave above. IOW, around 80 Hz. This will help integration, but also take a lot of stress off the midwoofer. It's only a 6.5" driver and that has to cover at least 5 octaves with an 80Hz crossover including the critical midrange. Anything you can do to take stress off that will help improve midrange intelligibility and keep distortion low in the bass and midrange.

 

[dodgers831]

You want a lot of overlap for a couple reasons.

First, the more overlap you have the more flexibility you have with different crossovers, higher lower, more overlap = more flexibility which is good because you never know what will be best for your specific room until you try/measure.

Second the crossover isn't a brick wall and both the sub and speakers will play still be giving useful output up to an octave or two depending on crossover slope. I believe the antimode uses 24db/oct slopes so you'll still be getting output above and below your crossover point. This is important because if the speakers or sub has a large extension advantage above or below the crossover point over the other it can possibly create an imbalance, necessitating a different, less ideal crossover point.

The Phil's are good speakers, but even though they deliver extension down to 40Hz or so (which is probably the -3db point) you definitely want to select a crossover at least an octave above. IOW, around 80 Hz. This will help integration, but also take a lot of stress off the midwoofer. It's only a 6.5" driver and that has to cover at least 5 octaves with an 80Hz crossover including the critical midrange. Anything you can do to take stress off that will help improve midrange intelligibility and keep distortion low in the bass and midrange.

Thanks again, Fuzz. Looks like 80Hz will be a good starting point. But since I'm not able to set a crossover on my Phils through my int amp, I'll just set it on the sub. Otherwise, I would try to take the load off the Phils. This was why I wanted to explore the AVR route for the Audyssey. But I just didn't want to give up the NAD.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

The Phil's are good speakers, but even though they deliver extension down to 40Hz or so (which is probably the -3db point) you definitely want to select a crossover at least an octave above. IOW, around 80 Hz. This will help integration, but also take a lot of stress off the midwoofer. It's only a 6.5" driver and that has to cover at least 5 octaves with an 80Hz crossover including the critical midrange. Anything you can do to take stress off that will help improve midrange intelligibility and keep distortion low in the bass and midrange.

Fuzz,

His speakers are running full range. His integrated amp has no bass management to filter the low end going to the mains.

Dodgers, if your mains are good to 40 Hz, then that’s a good starting point to set the crossover on your sub. You really don’t want much overlap between the subs and mains. If you set the sub for 80 Hz, that means both the subs and mains will be playing between 80 Hz and 40 Hz. Which means you’re probably going to have a noticeable bump in response in that range.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[dodgers831]

Fuzz,

His speakers are running full range. His integrated amp has no bass management to filter the low end going to the mains.

Dodgers, if your mains are good to 40 Hz, then that’s a good starting point to set the crossover on your sub. You really don’t want much overlap between the subs and mains. If you set the sub for 80 Hz, that means both the subs and mains will be playing between 80 Hz and 40 Hz. Which means you’re probably going to have a noticeable bump in response in that range.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

I thought there was a bit of misunderstanding. OK I'll start at 40Hz when I get it all together. One other thought - I have a Harrison PFMod passive crossover gadget I purchased years ago, but never did use it properly and kept it aside. Should I use this to set a high pass point for my mains and use the Antimode for the sub? It has four settings - 50 Hz, 70 Hz, 100 Hz and 150 Hz. Thanks. At least I'm learning

 

[fuzz092888]

Fuzz,

His speakers are running full range. His integrated amp has no bass management to filter the low end going to the mains.

Dodgers, if your mains are good to 40 Hz, then that’s a good starting point to set the crossover on your sub. You really don’t want much overlap between the subs and mains. If you set the sub for 80 Hz, that means both the subs and mains will be playing between 80 Hz and 40 Hz. Which means you’re probably going to have a noticeable bump in response in that range.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

I see that now after looking up his unit. Which leaves the issue of the speakers, you're right.

 

[fuzz092888]

I thought there was a bit of misunderstanding. OK I'll start at 40Hz when I get it all together. One other thought - I have a Harrison PFMod passive crossover gadget I purchased years ago, but never did use it properly and kept it aside. Should I use this to set a high pass point for my mains and use the Antimode for the sub? It has four settings - 50 Hz, 70 Hz, 100 Hz and 150 Hz. Thanks. At least I'm learning

Are you driving your speakers with the integrated or sending to an external amp? If you're driving with the internal amplifier, then I don't think you'll be able to use the pfmod. As far as I can tell from pictures, the pfmod uses RCA in and out and I think that if the links in your Nad are removed altogether the internal amplifier is disabled. You either have to have the links connecting pre 1 and main in or main in and pre 2 for the internal amplifier to work.