Anthony Grimani - Acoustic panels advice

[Brian Smith]

I am setting up a 16 X 16 X 9 (feet) home theater room with a 65 inch television. I am following Anthony Grimani's advice and suggestions for setting up room treatments (as outlined in the Audioholics Youtube videos). His company, Sonitus recommends you place your panels according to the following diagram, using the premium 250 room as a guide:

ZSound (webflow.com)

My first question is how high off the floor are you supposed to place the panels? Do you center the panels on the tweeter (which would put my panes 11" off the floor)? Center them on wall? Minimum distance from the floor?

My second question concerns the use of bass traps in the room. According to diagram I linked to, bass traps should be placed in the front corners of the room. Ideally should there be bass traps in all four corners? Or just one side of the room?

Any/all advice welcome! Thanks guys.

 

[Brian Smith]

No suggestions?

 

[highfigh]

I am setting up a 16 X 16 X 9 (feet) home theater room with a 65 inch television. I am following Anthony Grimani's advice and suggestions for setting up room treatments (as outlined in the Audioholics Youtube videos). His company, Sonitus recommends you place your panels according to the following diagram, using the premium 250 room as a guide:

ZSound (webflow.com)

My first question is how high off the floor are you supposed to place the panels? Do you center the panels on the tweeter (which would put my panes 11" off the floor)? Center them on wall? Minimum distance from the floor?

My second question concerns the use of bass traps in the room. According to diagram I linked to, bass traps should be placed in the front corners of the room. Ideally should there be bass traps in all four corners? Or just one side of the room?

Any/all advice welcome! Thanks guys.

One problem that is immediately apparent- the room is square and that's a problem because the room modes for that dimension will be harder to control than if it didn't have two walls with the same dimension.

Treatment can't be designed before you measure the room's response unless you truly understand how it's done- guessing is all you can do at the moment. Also, bass traps aren't all the same, so it can't be thought of as a generic item.

 

[ski2xblack]

The angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection ring any bells? The frequencies those panels are effective at are higher, and tend to act like light waves in how they interact with the walls. So, if you're trying to diminish first reflections, you place the panels so that if they were they mirrors, you would see your speakers in them from your mlp.

Square rooms are a challenge when it comes to bass. Bass traps would necessarily be *extremely* large, and even then only help at limited frequencies. An alternative to bass traps that would take up less space is another sub (or two).

 

[TheWarrior]

You can predict potential room modes by taking all of your rooms dimensions and dividing them in to the speed of sound, 1131 fps. Like this:

1131 / 16 = 70 hz

Because the room is square, you will experience multiple types of room modes at and around 70 hz, and without sufficient absorption in the RIGHT places, that sound wave will keep bouncing.

What's my point? If you're going to spend money on room treatment, you MUST take acoustic measurements. Without them you are guessing and almost certainly wasting money.

Additionally, corner bass traps are almost useless. Sounds convenient, but they really are not. Bass trapping is large and can become very expensive. However, the standard pieces of any listening room can also act for absorption. Couches, big fluffy pillows, tightly pack bookcases, etc are your natural absorbers that I would encourage you to spend money on, first.

 

[highfigh]

The angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection ring any bells? The frequencies those panels are effective at are higher, and tend to act like light waves in how they interact with the walls. So, if you're trying to diminish first reflections, you place the panels so that if they were they mirrors, you would see your speakers in them from your mlp.

Square rooms are a challenge when it comes to bass. Bass traps would necessarily be *extremely* large, and even then only help at limited frequencies. An alternative to bass traps that would take up less space is another sub (or two).

It does ring a few bells, but the panels absorbed the sound.....(insert rim shot here).

Best way to find the areas of first reflections is to actually use a mirror- I recommend the plastic type, for safety reasons.

The size of bass traps may be large, but that depends on the frequencies and severity of the problems. My room had a dip that really pissed me off because it caused a phase cancellation at my main listening position and if I moved my head a few inches to the side, it was very uncomfortable (felt like high pressure on one side, low pressure on the other) and I just wasn't happy with the sound. I played with the EQ in my AVR a lot, changed the distance settings and nothing helped until I busted out REW and brought some panels in that had been made for a demo in a home theater job, but ended up not being needed (the insulators never filled one wall, which caused the whole problem). I placed the one at a first reflection point and watched as the response changed. I put another in the adjacent corner and watched as it improved and kept going until the problem was gone. When I listened to the music, it was a completely different sound without any cancellations. I don't use any equalization and the response is very smooth. I wasn't going to put a chair behind my speaker or in the other places where I added panels but I also don't have to worry about WAF.

Bass traps, in the more typical style (the tall ones, often cylindrical) are harder to design but again, the frequencies and severity dictate the need. Square rooms, as you pointed out, pose more problems.

 

[Eppie]

If it's any help, GIK Acoustics makes good panels and they do free consulting. Based in Atlanta, Georgia. They can likely tell you how high to mount the panels as well.

 

[lovinthehd]

Curious why not work with Sonitus for further info?

 

[highfigh]

Curious why not work with Sonitus for further info?

By guess is budget.

 

[highfigh]

I am setting up a 16 X 16 X 9 (feet) home theater room with a 65 inch television. I am following Anthony Grimani's advice and suggestions for setting up room treatments (as outlined in the Audioholics Youtube videos). His company, Sonitus recommends you place your panels according to the following diagram, using the premium 250 room as a guide:

ZSound (webflow.com)

My first question is how high off the floor are you supposed to place the panels? Do you center the panels on the tweeter (which would put my panes 11" off the floor)? Center them on wall? Minimum distance from the floor?

My second question concerns the use of bass traps in the room. According to diagram I linked to, bass traps should be placed in the front corners of the room. Ideally should there be bass traps in all four corners? Or just one side of the room?

Any/all advice welcome! Thanks guys.

You can't place acoustical treatments on surfaces with any thoughts about how they'll look (WRT patterns, shapes, etc- cosmetics come later). What is needed, how much and where are completely dictated by the speaker placement, listening positions, surfaces (hard & smooth, rough, soft, etc), building materials as well as room shape & dimensions. "It looks cool" has no place in this.

 

[Eppie]

You can't place acoustical treatments on surfaces with any thoughts about how they'll look (WRT patterns, shapes, etc- cosmetics come later). What is needed, how much and where are completely dictated by the speaker placement, listening positions, surfaces (hard & smooth, rough, soft, etc), building materials as well as room shape & dimensions. "It looks cool" has no place in this.

You have to admit that Trell's room does look pretty cool though.
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/trells-home-theatre-living-room.121330/post-1505058

 

[highfigh]

You have to admit that Trell's room does look pretty cool though.
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/trells-home-theatre-living-room.121330/post-1505058

I'm not saying it should look like raw materials and his room does look great but that shouldn't be the main goal. His panels are functional, first.

 

[Eppie]

I'm not saying it should look like raw materials and his room does look great but that shouldn't be the main goal. His panels are functional, first.

I don't think the op mentioned anything about appearances, only placement. Of course your point is well taken. Design first, aesthetics afterwards. The nice thing is that there is a wide assortment of options these days. Some people probably think of egg carton shaped black foam when it comes to sound treatment, but absorbers can be covered in whatever colour fabric you like, or have GIK print on the fabric. Lots of stylish diffusers too similar to what Trell used. No need to have function without form these days.

 

[highfigh]

I don't think the op mentioned anything about appearances, only placement. Of course your point is well taken. Design first, aesthetics afterwards. The nice thing is that there is a wide assortment of options these days. Some people probably think of egg carton shaped black foam when it comes to sound treatment, but absorbers can be covered in whatever colour fabric you like, or have GIK print on the fabric. Lots of stylish diffusers too similar to what Trell used. No need to have function without form these days.

But look at Grimani's site to see the appearance. Also, foam isn't the best material for absorption and they're supposed to state something about fire ratings and California Cancer warning (preferably by posting an MSDS or manufacturer's spec sheet). Industry-based acoustic foam isn't the typical gray stuff that's used by Auralex and others- it has different densities, porosity, sometimes a plastic membrane with/without holes, to affect the NRC & STC to show effectiveness at the usual frequencies and some actually has/had a lead layer, used for blocking low frequencies.

Sure, it can look like whatever someone wants, but if the panels have a harder surface, care is needed to prevent excessive reflection and the quantity/size/placement/pattern of any holes have a specific effect on absorption and reflections.

Again, the amount of surface area covered by absorptive/reflective/diffusive materials, their thickness and any spacing behind them must be based on need, not patterns or appearance. I'm not arguing against good appearance, I'm saying the goals need to be prioritized.

 

[Trell]

I had good looks as a very important goal for otherwise the panels would never be placed in our living room. More expensive, though.

 

[highfigh]

I had good looks as a very important goal for otherwise the panels would never be placed in our living room. More expensive, though.

Definitely- if they were going in an industrial area, looks aren't as important unless it may be used as a commercial space. In a home, we want them to look good.