Anthem v. Outlaw

[djoxygen]

As some of you know from my past posts, I have been planning to get a pre/pro with balanced outs for a couple years. The time is getting closer so at some point I have to make a decision.

I have been reading a few threads with some very positive things to say about the Anthem AVM series. I had thought these were out of my price range, but I've seen used AVM30s coming down into the low $2K range.

And the Outlaw 990 seems tough to beat as the only balanced pre/pro anywhere near $1k.

So... does anyone/everyone think it's worth tightening my belt for an Anthem?

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A few points of consideration:

The 2x1 DVI switching on the Outlaw is all but worthless to me - either way I'll have to get outboard video switching.

The automatic room setup in the Outlaw is something I feel I can do on my own with 2 ears, a calculator, and a SPL meter.

The number of composite and s-video inputs is all but irrelevant.

Ease of use and/or programmability for the remote-control-challenged sig. other is of great importance.
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Many advance thanks for your input!

 

[mazersteven]

As good as that Outlaw 990 is, it's not in the same class as the Anthem AVM 30. The Anthem Processor is far superior to the Outlaw. The reviews state that the Anthem AVM 30 competes with higher priced pre/amps like the Krell. Outlaw can't make that statement.

And I'm sure you'll hear the difference.

 

[Josuah]

IIRC, there was one reviewer who sold his Lexicon in exchange for the 990, after having used the Lexicon for a while and then reviewing the 990.

 

[agarwalro]

Are you setting up a HT or a dedicated stereo listening setup. If you are setting up a stereo rig, getting the 990 or AVM30 might be overkill. You can get a much less costly (yet equal or better quality) stereo pre-amp.

IMO, the improvements from using XLR (balanced) connections instead of RCA (un-balanced) are most evident in setups with a lot of interference and when making long cable runs (> 100 ft like in a PA system, etc.). I doubt if there will significant audible differrence between the XLR pre-outs and the RCA pre-outs going to the amp placed 0.5 - 25 ft. away.

 

[djoxygen]

I doubt if there will significant audible differrence between the XLR pre-outs and the RCA pre-outs going to the amp placed 0.5 - 25 ft. away.

Surround HT system w/ powered monitors around the perimeter of a 16x18 room. The cable runs will be long.

 

[agarwalro]

Not saying that there is nothing to gain by going XLR. Benchmark testing routinely proves that the XLR connections offer better FR, THD, etc performance when compared with RCA connections. But in the real world these improvements are easily masked by room effects if they are within the sensitivity of human hearing at all. I cant comment on whether there will be any benifit for you by going XLR. In my setup the speaker cables run about 40', and subwoofer cable is 25'. All other cables are 10' or less. When there is silence on any of the sources, there is pin drop silence in the room, even when the amp volume is at max position. No noise, no hum, etc. I can hear my heartbeat.

 

[b_panther_g]

Hey Djoxygen,

I don’t know if you read the review at Ultimate AV. It’s located here…

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/surroundsoundpreampprocessors/705outlaw/index.html

Here’s a quote from the review…

“…Audition
A pre-pro ought to be equally adept at both music and video soundtracks. As I mentioned earlier, the analog input for SACD/DVD-Audio signals worked just as it should, turning the Outlaw into a wire switcher. It should have no effect on the sound, and it didn't. Listening to CDs through the analog bypass, as I normally do in my own system, produced the same result.

But using a digital input, I could hear the Outlaw at last. I am not a big fan of CDs these days; to me, the strident midrange of most of them is grating. The Outlaw did not increase or reduce that; it was transparent. But I did notice a slight loss of bass definition in the CD soundtrack for the film U-571, which is a bass-fest, and U2's How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb CD compared to what I hear from my reference processor, the Lexicon MC-12. Apart from that, I could detect no difference between the two pre-pros. The Outlaw was largely transparent…”​

WITW, I don’t think you’ll hear much difference between the “sound” from either the Outlaw or the Anthem. However, the Anthem is much more configurable. This may or may not make a difference in your room.

I hope this helps.

Enjoy,
Panther

 

[mazersteven]

Hey Djoxygen,

WITW, I don’t think you’ll hear much difference between the “sound” from either the Outlaw or the Anthem. However, the Anthem is much more configurable. This may or may not make a difference in your room.

I hope this helps.

Enjoy,
Panther

I don't know if I'd agree to not hearing a difference. But the main question is the speakers your using. I mean if you using (and I'm not saying anything bad about them) Paradigm Mini Monitor as mains, the Anthem is way over kill (so is the Outlaw, but it's only an example). But if your mains are B&W 800's, Dynaudio's, then I would say the Outlaw is out classed, and the Anthem would be a better choice.

And then Amps is a different topic.

 

[mulester7]

.....if XLR inputs are better with long runs, why wouldn't they be better with short?....hillbilly overkill....don't cost a lot extra to go first class....just like larger speaker wire....wire your mains with 1 gauge, haha.....

 

[PENG]

And the Outlaw 990 seems tough to beat as the only balanced pre/pro anywhere near $1k.

So... does anyone/everyone think it's worth tightening my belt for an Anthem?

The Anthem has tighter specifications in general. Whether you can hear the difference between the two, and which one sounds better to you, no one can tell but yourself. Some people claim they can hear differences between amps/preamps, some claim they can't. To me, if I like the sound of the Anthem better, $1K more is worth it. If not, the 990 seems like a nice toy as well, lots of buttons to play with, and no shortage of good reviews.

 

[mike c]

somebody was selling me gauge 6 XLO speaker wires the other day ...
4K USD. but it had this fancy look and a carrying bag.

 

[mulester7]

Some people claim they can hear differences between amps/preamps, some claim they can't

.....Peng, I wish you could have been here the night I tried the Placette passive linestage pre-amp against my 35 year old McIntosh C26 a couple of weeks ago....Guys, listen, the better your main's regiment is positioned and damped correctly, the more imaging gets going, and you can hear differences in the "presence" of the pre-amps much more readily, and they're generally all different....words are used like veiled, bright, and warm for a reason....and warm, doesn't mean distorted, nor heavy overwhelming light....I listened to Charlotte Church with the Placette, and it sounded like Charlotte's hand mic was on, and that was the only mic in the house, period, orchestra included....I put the Mc C26 back, and there were suddenly ambiance mics all over the massive room coming to the mixing-board....two totally different types of "presence".....get your damping right....the Placette got boxed the next day and sent to Morro Bay Bob, in exchange for a pair of his mains I'm going to get in cherry wood....he has just broken through with the crossover for the TL's to where the rolloff at handoff is 40 db and the signal goes into the tweeter perfectly....he said it was his best effort yet, and you should hear the ones I got.....there's differences in amps also, but pre-amps are where differences heard are obvious....if I was torn between two pre-amps, and couldn't hear one or both of them, I'd order both and spend 30 bucks to send one back knowing I had the best and most pleasing according to my ears, auditioned in my home......

.....edit....Bob just had a friend of his take a pair of his mains, Super Clef TL's, (transmission-lines) to a show and exhibit them in the guy's booth....Bob's TL's sold for $4000 before the show was started good, and the buyer had to wait three days to pick them up when the show was over.....

 

[djoxygen]

Not saying that there is nothing to gain by going XLR. Benchmark testing routinely proves that the XLR connections offer better FR, THD, etc performance when compared with RCA connections. But in the real world these improvements are easily masked by room effects if they are within the sensitivity of human hearing at all. I cant comment on whether there will be any benifit for you by going XLR. In my setup the speaker cables run about 40', and subwoofer cable is 25'. All other cables are 10' or less. When there is silence on any of the sources, there is pin drop silence in the room, even when the amp volume is at max position. No noise, no hum, etc. I can hear my heartbeat.

This is not meant to be rude, but to focus on the topic. The powered-monitor/balanced-line question is closed. My choice of speakers made that decision for me. The open question is best performance/value in a balanced pre/pro

 

[PENG]

.....if XLR inputs are better with long runs, why wouldn't they be better with short?....hillbilly overkill....don't cost a lot extra to go first class....just like larger speaker wire....wire your mains with 1 gauge, haha.....

mule, the common mode rejection capability of the balanced line is not needed if the length of the interconnect between the preamp and amp is short (say a few feet) because it is highly unlikely that the wires will pick up noise from external interference that you (even you) can hear. It is physics/electrical engineering. We are not talking about length of speaker wires here.

djoxygen: sorry but I wanted to answer mule's ?
Between the two prepro you named, unless you can audition both, the Anthem is a safe bet for better sound quality.

 

[djoxygen]

djoxygen: sorry but I wanted to answer mule's ?

's cool. I didn't mean that people shouldn't wander off-topic, just that there's no point in trying to convince me to change direction since I already have my L/R (Mackie HR824) and Rs/Ls (Mackie HR624) monitors purchased.

Between the two prepro you named, unless you can audition both, the Anthem is a safe bet for better sound quality.

If I'm only paying $2k-ish for the AVM30, it is unlikely to be returnable since it will be a used unit. I think an A/B is not going to happen here.

What I'm trying to determine by launching this thread and by reading as many reviews as I can is: Is the AVM30 worth paying 2x as much as an Outlaw 990 in features and/or sound quality? Or are we way up on the curve of diminishing returns (2x price for 5% or 10% better)? So then I can make the jump sound unheard, as it were.

 

[Josuah]

I think the guys at Secrets might be able to answer your question more easily. They've reviewed both units.

 

[PENG]

If I'm only paying $2k-ish for the AVM30, it is unlikely to be returnable since it will be a used unit. I think an A/B is not going to happen here.

What I'm trying to determine by launching this thread and by reading as many reviews as I can is: Is the AVM30 worth paying 2x as much as an Outlaw 990 in features and/or sound quality? Or are we way up on the curve of diminishing returns (2x price for 5% or 10% better)? So then I can make the jump sound unheard, as it were.

For a 7.1 prepro with most of the latest bells and whistles and still offer high end quality preamps, I would say you won't be at the point on the curve of dimishing returns until you get to the $3 to $4K range, i.e., right where the Anthem is.

 

[Doug917]

I am in the process of downsizing from two HT rigs to one. Currently, I am using the Boston Acoustics 7120 as a pre/pro and the BA A7200 amp. The BA 7120(receiver) and AVP7(pre/pro) sound better than the 990 in my opinion. I would go this route as the BA's are cheaper as well. I owned the 990 for about 6 months and when compared to the BA's sold it on Audiogon. I will be selling off the BA's soon as I want to go to the next level. I am deciding between the AVM30 and the Emotiva DMC-1 presently.

The AVM30 is on top with its long list of features, extensive set-up and flexibility, and solid performance without any glitches or compromises. The Anthem is ~1k more than the DMC-1, but I don't plan on buy another pre/pro for at least 3-5 years (I could care less about HD & Bluray, or even HDMI connections as I have only one device and it goes strait to the projector) and want to make sure I get it right.

One of the only things I don't like about the Anthem is it only has the 5.1 input instead of the 7.1, however, processing can be applied to the input to produce a 7.1 output so I don't know if it's really that big a deal or not. After reading the manual (man this unit has a TON of features) I realize this pre/pro is definately more flexible than any other piece I have owned, Yamaha receivers included.

I don't think you could go wrong with the Anthem, so I think it all comes down to price when in your situation. At least that is the decision I am down to: Can I afford the extra dough to get the Anthem? I think it may be time to start eating Mac & Cheese and selling blood!

 

[djoxygen]

The Boston doesn't cut it for me, since I won't run unbalanced lines 30 feet around the circumference of my room to my powered monitors. Too much antenna - gotta be XLR. I have been considering the DMC as well. If there were a used one out there for under $2K I would have to seriously consider it.

I know this is stupid, but I am really having a hard time with the way the Outlaw looks. It is one huge, ugly beast. Can't stomach spending 2x as much just for something pretty, but I really do like the idea of Anthem's upgrade paths, so that is my main argument to myself in favor of spending the extra coin.

 

[Doug917]

djoxygen,

The DMC-1 can be had new right now for $1699 via this link:

http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=processors&product=61.1

Now you may face the same issue I am: AVM30 or DMC-1?

Also, having owned the 990, it is not as ugly as most proclaim it to be. It is a great pre/pro for the price, but the bass just never was completely dialed in and the AVP7 bested it with movies which is what I listen to most.I would agree however, the DMC-1 and AVM30 definately are sexier looking pieces.

Peace,