Another AVR/Phono Preamp Question

[TLS Guy]

Tone arm lift is not semi automatic, please get in the real world.

In their literature is calls it automatic, however its correct designation is semiautomatic. A manual turntable has no functions related to the position of the tone arm, whether switchable or not.

 

[TLS Guy]

The Marantz has a poor phono preamp compared to the unit fitted to the turntable, even Michael Fremer rates it quite good but he even says it could be improved on.

The Technics SL1500c is NOT semi automatic where did you get that idea from, the only thing it can do and you can switch it off is raise the tone arm at the end of the record.

First of all Michael Fremer is an audiophool wrong more often than by chance. You weigh the cod's wallop that he espouses by the ton and not the ounce.

Now, as I said, an RIAA phono circuit is a very simple circuit and very unlikely to have significant errors.

If you hear a difference and assuming it is a difference the problem is very unlikely to be an error in the RIAA Eq circuit.

LP reproduction is tricky, and there are opportunities for things to go wrong.

One of the big issues is cartridge loading capacitance.

All cartridges have an optimum loading capacitance. This used to be in the specification and now seldom is.

To make matters worse, there is no agreed phono loading capacitance. The biggest variable in all this is the capacitance of the cables from cartridge to phono input.

So when you use the built in phono amp in the turntable, the connection will be low capacitance because the length of the cable will be short.

When you connect the cartridge direct to the phono input you have a longer cable and the loading capacitance will be higher.

So SME were aware of this and they used to use very low capacitance leads. Back in the day, when people had skills, you looked up the specified loading capacitance of the cartridge. Then you added the requisite cap at the base of the SME arm to make the required optimal loading capacitance. That assumed the owners had soldering skills. I have been soldering for seventy years now.

Peter Walker of Quad, put dip switches on top of the Quad 44 preamp, so that sensitivity and loading capacitance could be optimized for the owners choice of cartridge and turntable.

So I suspect that for that cartridge, as you have found the built in phono amp is the more optimal of the two, because of the short connection between cartridge and preamp.

 

[MrBoat]

I wasn't satisfied with the output of my Hitachi TT thru the phono hookup of the Denon AVR. Ended up buying an ART DJ Pre 2 phono preamp and connected it to one of the other inputs on the AVR. It solved the issue, whatever it may have been.

 

[davidscott]

I think for those of us with strictly manual tts an auto lift is semi-automatic.

Agreed. I'm running a REGA Planar 3 and I NEED to get a tonearm lifter. Let's just call it a semi - semi automatic.

 

[lovinthehd]

Agreed. I'm running a REGA Planar 3 and I NEED to get a tonearm lifter. Let's just call it a semi - semi automatic.

Perhaps you can add the Q-up if your tone arm is suited ? https://www.thequp.com/

 

[TLS Guy]

I wasn't satisfied with the output of my Hitachi TT thru the phono hookup of the Denon AVR. Ended up buying an ART DJ Pre 2 phono preamp and connected it to one of the other inputs on the AVR. It solved the issue, whatever it may have been.

If Denon really did manage to screw up RIAA equalization, then they go to the bottom of the heap. I find it hard to believe they did, but anything is possible these days.

 

[TLS Guy]

Agreed. I'm running a REGA Planar 3 and I NEED to get a tonearm lifter. Let's just call it a semi - semi automatic.

From the pictures it looks as if the turntable does have a manual lift. If it does not, then that turntable is inadequate.

 

[Eppie]

Agreed. I'm running a REGA Planar 3 and I NEED to get a tonearm lifter. Let's just call it a semi - semi automatic.

We've had this discussion.
The Q-Up is the cheap alternative. The TruLift is the expensive alternative. In between there is AudioTechnica's tonearm lifter. Make sure you have the space between the platter and the gimbal. The TruLift just fits on my Project but it's very close to the platter.

 

[TLS Guy]

We've had this discussion.
The Q-Up is the cheap alternative. The TruLift is the expensive alternative. In between there is AudioTechnica's tonearm lifter. Make sure you have the space between the platter and the gimbal. The TruLift just fits on my Project but it's very close to the platter.

Are you telling me that someone is actually producing a turntable without a lift? If that is so, then that turntable is not fit for purpose and should be avoided.

 

[highfigh]

I have never seen one of those turntables that did not drag a mechanism to work the switches.

How much mechanism are you referring to? It's not as if all turntables with a switch activated by the tonearm are dragging a whole start/return mechanism- the start mech pushes the tonearm, it's not being pulled. The return mech engages the tonearm but while the record is playing, there's no drag in a decent turntable. Some have a disc with slots and a photocell or possibly, something that works like a Hall Effect sensor that trigger the return mech and that's all- the rest is never engaged until the end is sensed. My Sony has this and I should have gotten some photos when it was open.

 

[highfigh]

Are you telling me that someone is actually producing a turntable without a lift? If that is so, then that turntable is not fit for purpose and should be avoided.

Why is it unfit? Watkins sold cuing levers, why should U-Turn and others be required to include it?

Besides- I'm sure someone makes a high end version that, of course, sounds better.

 

[TLS Guy]

Why is it unfit? Watkins sold cuing levers, why should U-Turn and others be required to include it?

Besides- I'm sure someone makes a high end version that, of course, sounds better.

I tell you why, because as cartridges improved they got more fragile. So, not having a lift risks damage to cartridges and records come to that.

A turntable without a lift is incomplete. So avoid those. They are a BAD buy.

 

[lovinthehd]

I tell you why, because as cartridges improved they got more fragile. So, not having a lift risks damage to cartridges and records come to that.

A turntable without a lift is incomplete. So avoid those. They are a BAD buy.

The device in question is the auto lift at the end of the record....the spec for OP's tt does indicate it has both lever and finger lifts as well as auto lift at the end...and the comments for davidscott were separate

 

[Eppie]

Are you telling me that someone is actually producing a turntable without a lift? If that is so, then that turntable is not fit for purpose and should be avoided.

No, we are strictly talking about an auto-lift for when the LP finishes playing. I'm sometimes off in another room while music is playing, or I might fall asleep on the couch with a record on, so I wanted an auto-lift for my fully manual turntable. I always use the queuing lever to raise and lower the stylus.

FYI, the Dust Bug just fits on my plinth but it is too tall. I like to keep the dust cover down and the rear of the Dust Bug barely clears the dust cover as it rotates. Something for others to keep in mind. The metal wire arm however hits the dust cover when I close the lid. I think I have enough room to carefully bend that wire down a little. A few mm should suffice.