Amps or new speakers?

[jnavarro]

I recently just purchased a Pair of polk RTi10 & and yamaha RX-v861. The reason I purchased these speakers was A) the price & appearance B) They had small woofers that i though could take the place of subwoofer. I would like to eliminate the subwoofer because there is no room in the apt living room and the Pugs keep pissing on it.

Right now I moved my main Sub to the bedroom setup PSW12 and left the small RM6750 (polk theater in a box set) woofer in the main setup. It's a small 8inch with 50watts rms and it produces better bass then the both RTi's which is a little disappointing.

The Rti's are setup with 12awg and (bi-amped) with the yamaha's 7th channel.( some said this helps some , some said it doesnt) In my case it didnt make any noticeable difference.

Should I invest into 2 behringer A500 to power each RTI10 or should I cut my losses with those speakers?

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks again,

Setup:
Fronts: RTi10's
Center: Polk CS2
Rear: Polk RM6751
SUBolk RM6750 (its a small 8inch RMS: 50)

 

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum!

I would like to eliminate the subwoofer because there is no room in the apt living room and the Pugs keep pissing on it.

I just about spit coffee all over my keyboard because I just took a drink and then started laughing so hard when I read that! Sorry for your trouble, but that's funny stuff.

If you haven't already, I'd do some work on calibrating the system before going out to buy new stuff. Those speakers should be able to do low frequencies pretty well, and they get good reviews. Same is true for your receiver. What I would suggest is running through a set of test tones (you can download them or buy them on CDs like this one) and measuring the SPL using a SPL meter (like this one). That would let you know the response that you're getting in your room from those speakers. It could just be where they are placed. Room acoustics can have a large effect on the overall response that you hear at your seat.

Adam

 

[TLS Guy]

I recently just purchased a Pair of polk RTi10 & and yamaha RX-v861. The reason I purchased these speakers was A) the price & appearance B) They had small woofers that i though could take the place of subwoofer. I would like to eliminate the subwoofer because there is no room in the apt living room and the Pugs keep pissing on it.

Right now I moved my main Sub to the bedroom setup PSW12 and left the small RM6750 (polk theater in a box set) woofer in the main setup. It's a small 8inch with 50watts rms and it produces better bass then the both RTi's which is a little disappointing.

The Rti's are setup with 12awg and (bi-amped) with the yamaha's 7th channel.( some said this helps some , some said it doesnt) In my case it didnt make any noticeable difference.

Should I invest into 2 behringer A500 to power each RTI10 or should I cut my losses with those speakers?

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks again,

Setup:
Fronts: RTi10's
Center: Polk CS2
Rear: Polk RM6751
SUBolk RM6750 (its a small 8inch RMS: 50)

This seems to be the day for speaker powering problems. This has come up before. Do everything Adam says. However, those RTi10 are another in what seems to be becoming a trend. What I'm getting at is speakers with passive crossovers below the 350 to 400 Hz range. I see the temptation, but it is a thoroughly bad idea.

It creates many problems. The first is huge inductor values. To keep costs down in a speaker like that the coils have to be wound with wire far too thin, on iron cores, usually also too small. The resistance of the wire upsets the bass tuning. The caps are so high in value, non polarizing electrolytic types have to be used. These are much less than ideal for passive crossovers.

The next problem is you end up with an impedance and phase curve that is a nightmare. To build a decent passive crossover in the range we are talking about would cost a small fortune, even then I don't think it a good idea.

Those speakers I bet have a very low impedance in parts of the bottom end of the frequency spectrum, and I suspect the rated impedance is pretty much fiction. This will inevitably be coupled with a very adverse phase angle between voltage and current, which will exacerbate the situation for current limited amps greatly.

These speakers have a reputation for being bass shy, and there are many reasons why that should be so.

This is yet another situation that makes the case for powered speakers with active crossovers. If manufacturers feel there is a need for low frequency transition between the low and band pass filters of the crossover, then moving to powered speakers with active crossovers just HAS to happen.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...I would like to eliminate the subwoofer because there is no room in the apt living room and the Pugs keep pissing on it.
)

I think your priorities are in the wrong place
Get rid of that Pugs half the problem solved

 

[Alex2507]

I think your priorities are in the wrong place
Get rid of that Pugs half the problem solved

Ain't gonna happen. Most people like their dogs better than their wives.

 

[TLS Guy]

I think your priorities are in the wrong place
Get rid of that Pugs half the problem solved

Up to a point, but it is in for a dig to produce a speaker that size where a sub is mandatory. If it was my design, I would be thoroughly embarrassed. I can tell you if I were the manufacturer it would not see the light of day.

 

[jnavarro]

I had sometime over the weekend to mess around with the setup.. Big part of the problem is there location in the room. Unfortunately my room, furniture, doesn't allow for a better setup...thanks again for all the suggestions.

 

[Midcow2]

The Pugs just need some redirection

I think your priorities are in the wrong place
Get rid of that Pugs half the problem solved

Give the Pugs a better alternative. Use some Bose speakers for Priority Influenced Stereo System redirection.

 

[Ron Temple]

This seems to be the day for speaker powering problems. This has come up before. Do everything Adam says. However, those RTi10 are another in what seems to be becoming a trend. What I'm getting at is speakers with passive crossovers below the 350 to 400 Hz range. I see the temptation, but it is a thoroughly bad idea.

It creates many problems. The first is huge inductor values. To keep costs down in a speaker like that the coils have to be wound with wire far too thin, on iron cores, usually also too small. The resistance of the wire upsets the bass tuning. The caps are so high in value, non polarizing electrolytic types have to be used. These are much less than ideal for passive crossovers.

The next problem is you end up with an impedance and phase curve that is a nightmare. To build a decent passive crossover in the range we are talking about would cost a small fortune, even then I don't think it a good idea.

Those speakers I bet have a very low impedance in parts of the bottom end of the frequency spectrum, and I suspect the rated impedance is pretty much fiction. This will inevitably be coupled with a very adverse phase angle between voltage and current, which will exacerbate the situation for current limited amps greatly.

These speakers have a reputation for being bass shy, and there are many reasons why that should be so.

This is yet another situation that makes the case for powered speakers with active crossovers. If manufacturers feel there is a need for low frequency transition between the low and band pass filters of the crossover, then moving to powered speakers with active crossovers just HAS to happen.

Probably pretty accurate description as to why the RTi10s and 12s can sound a bit anemic without a ton of current. The impedance dips can drop below 4 ohms like many speakers, however, the big RTis bass punch can be outstanding married to the right high current solution. I do agree with Adam...find out what your room is doing first.

 

[a33montoya]

As an owner of a pair of rti12's I can honestly say that they require a good amount of power to get the sub portion of the cabinet working efficiently. But once they are powered well the lower portion of the cabinet comes alive with a good deal of bass, a budget sub is not going to come close to what these will produce when powered and of course setup correctly. I have two carver 1.0t dinosaur amps mono bridged powering mine and they are incredible I had a psw-505 and the towers powered with the carvers overpowered the sub I upgraded the sub for this reason. The psw-505 was a decent budget friendly sub I paid 300.00 on clearance at jr's I know there are better subs out there but the point is the rti12 overpowered this one in particular. When I first got my speakers I powered therm with my pioneer elite 81txv bi-amped and it is a night and day difference powered with the carvers at all levels in particular stereo mode. No biamp one amp one tower top and bottom.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...I would like to eliminate the subwoofer because there is no room in the apt living room...

First, there are no built-in subs that will compete with the hardcore dedicated big-time subs from SVS, HSU, Velodyne, Epik, etc.

Second, in general, there are no passive built-in subs/woofers that will compete with the powered built-in subs.

So if you are interested in getting rid of all your separate subwoofers, you need to audition speakers with built-in powered subwoofers. However, they may cost a lot more than what you want to pay. Aperion, AV123, and Definitive Technology are 3 companies I know of that make powered built-in-subwoofer speakers.