Amplifier recommendations

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In a blind test, would the ATI AT6003 be the same as Anthem STR Amp?

I think it's more like the other way around.

Will the Anthem sound as good as the ATI.

I see way too much digital stuff on the front of that Anthem. Looks kind of like a AV Receiver.

Sure it doesn't cause any adverse effects on the sound quality?

 

[PENG]

In a blind test, would the ATI AT6003 be the same as Anthem STR Amp?

Who knows! I bet no one can tell which is which in a level matched double blind test though. I like the simplicity of the ATI, but I don't like it's weight, imo they are unnecessarily heavy. Anthem seems to have smaller transformers vs ATI's, though they still advertised them as "oversized" (sounds ridiculous to me, but it works for them) and less storage capacitance but maximize the output devices for good dynamic output as well as short duration output (3 secs). I like that approach because truly continuous rating is not necessary except for people who listen to compressed music at deafeningly loud spl.

I actually feel a little sorry for people who believe firmly that even good quality amps like Anthem, Bryston, Classe, ATI, NAD, Parasound's would sound so audibly different, and requires proper matching to preamps and loudspeakers. The thing is, how are they ever going to decide on what to buy if that's what they believe. They can't practically try everything, so are they are end up relying on subjective reviews and hearsay?

I rather rely on science, specs, and measurements. People don't get to land on moon, let alone MARs if specs and measurements and not good enough. But then, that's just me, as they say ymmv..

 

[3db]

Who knows! I bet no one can tell which is which in a level matched double blind test though. I like the simplicity of the ATI, but I don't like it's weight, imo they are unnecessarily heavy. Anthem seems to have smaller transformers vs ATI's, though they still advertised them as "oversized" (sounds ridiculous to me, but it works for them) and less storage capacitance but maximize the output devices for good dynamic output as well as short duration output (3 secs). I like that approach because truly continuous rating is not necessary except for people who listen to compressed music at deafeningly loud spl.

I actually feel a little sorry for people who believe firmly that even good quality amps like Anthem, Bryston, Classe, ATI, NAD, Parasound's would sound so audibly different, and requires proper matching to preamps and loudspeakers. The thing is, how are they ever going to decide on what to buy if that's what they believe. They can't practically try everything, so are they are end up relying on subjective reviews and hearsay?

I rather rely on science, specs, and measurements. People don't get to land on moon, let alone MARs if specs and measurements and not good enough. But then, that's just me, as they say ymmv..

I agre with you. I would like to add that matching on pre-amp /amps is more about output levels on the preamp being able to feed the power amp with enough gain but not about sound quality in the strict sense. Power amp matching to speakers is more about desired volume levels given a room size. Thats my take on all of this matching "stuff"

 

[PENG]

I agre with you. I would like to add that matching on pre-amp /amps is more about output levels on the preamp being able to feed the power amp with enough gain but not about sound quality in the strict sense. Power amp matching to speakers is more about desired volume levels given a room size. Thats my take on all of this matching "stuff"

That supports my point too, about the need to rely more on specs and measurements. If the specs, verified by measurements indicate excellent gain, output impedance (low for preamp) and high input impedance (high for power amp),then there is no need to worry about matching. Conversely, if a preamp needs to be matched with certain power amps, I would avoid it, for the obvious reason.

 

[Cjamrr]

I think it's more like the other way around.

Will the Anthem sound as good as the ATI.

I see way too much digital stuff on the front of that Anthem. Looks kind of like a AV Receiver.

Sure it doesn't cause any adverse effects on the sound quality?

I was on the phone ready to purchase the ATI AT6003 for LCR on Friday from Digital Dawn 20 % off Black Friday sale. $3,836 plus shipping.

 

[lovinthehd]

I was on the phone ready to purchase the ATI AT6003 for LCR on Friday from Digital Dawn 20 % off Black Friday sale. $3,836 plus shipping.

....and?

 

[PENG]

I thought you bought the Carver for the FL/FR.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

I was on the phone ready to purchase the ATI AT6003 for LCR on Friday from Digital Dawn 20 % off Black Friday sale. $3,836 plus shipping.

Wow, I wish I had your money. Those speakers and now these amps.

 

[Cjamrr]

I thought you bought the Carver for the FL/FR.

I did buy the Carver on Saturday.
The day after Thanksgiving I was on the phone with Digital Dawn and very close to buying to the ATI AT6003, just couldn’t set the hook on it. Then I decided to buy the Carver and put the rest of the money towards another JL Audio E112 sub.
Just curious about the ATI. The Anthem mca325 really did a great job on HT. I’m just starting to wonder if my ab comparison and blind test, level matching was as accurate as your setup would’ve been.

 

[Cjamrr]

Wow, I wish I had your money. Those speakers and now these amps.

So tell me how you would spend it with what I have so far.
Music was always part of my life.
I’m hooked bad, no catch and release in this hobby now.
My audio equipment was just cheap stuff from circuit city 15 years ago for under $350, plus friends who had no use for their equipment and gave to me. I bought a used Pioneer SX980 & Pioneer PL300 record player in 1980 which i bought off my older cousin with my 8th grade graduation money. (still works)
Now, I finished my basement a year ago. Furnished it with new furniture, now I’m trying to completely finish audio before getting newer bigger tv. I am getting older and want to enjoy my lounging around time.

 

[PENG]

I did buy the Carver on Saturday.
The day after Thanksgiving I was on the phone with Digital Dawn and very close to buying to the ATI AT6003, just couldn’t set the hook on it. Then I decided to buy the Carver and put the rest of the money towards another JL Audio E112 sub.
Just curious about the ATI. The Anthem mca325 really did a great job on HT. I’m just starting to wonder if my ab comparison and blind test, level matching was as accurate as your setup would’ve been.

As long as you level matched them, use the same source, everything else the same, and did it blind, then it's good.

That Carver amp, from what I read, was not design to be transparent. However, if you like it better than the STR and MCA, then it's a good buy. To me, $700 seems a little too much for such an old amp.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

So tell me how you would spend it with what I have so far.
Music was always part of my life.
I’m hooked bad, no catch and release in this hobby now.
My audio equipment was just cheap stuff from circuit city 15 years ago for under $350, plus friends who had no use for their equipment and gave to me. I bought a used Pioneer SX980 & Pioneer PL300 record player in 1980 which i bought off my older cousin with my 8th grade graduation money. (still works)
Now, I finished my basement a year ago. Furnished it with new furniture, now I’m trying to completely finish audio before getting newer bigger tv. I am getting older and want to enjoy my lounging around time.

I like music too. With today's technology and economies of scale, I wouldn't spend too much on the electronics portion of the equipment. A new mid-priced AVR represents incredible value per dollar.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So tell me how you would spend it with what I have so far.

He definitely wouldn’t spend $4K on any amps or preamps/Pre-pros.

Probably not even $2,000.

Tell you what, I’ll sell you my 6YR ATI AT3005 (300W x 5Ch, retail $4800) for only $2,000 or a new ADCOM GFA-5705 (200W x 5Ch, retail $3,000) for $2,000.

 

[Cjamrr]

He definitely wouldn’t spend $4K on any amps or preamps/Pre-pros.

Probably not even $2,000.

Tell you what, I’ll sell you my 6YR ATI AT3005 (300W x 5Ch, retail $4800) for only $2,000 or a new ADCOM GFA-5705 (200W x 5Ch, retail $3,000) for $2,000.

$1500.00 i might consider it.

 

[lovinthehd]

As long as you level matched them, use the same source, everything else the same, and did it blind, then it's good.

.

Which didn't happen.

 

[PENG]

Which didn't happen.

I am not sure, at different point I thought he said he did level match and had someone do the switching via a switch box so that he could not tell which one was playing. Then on post#127 he explained that the Carver hooked up to his Onkyo sounded better, but apparently just more bass. He also reported the STR amp sounded best, citing the "6K price". Also, in the beginning of that post (#127), he said "Telling them apart, I barely notice the difference except for slight bass. " So I am a little confused, but suffice to say he really couldn't tell much of a difference aside from the perceived "more bass..". The more bass thing could not really be explained, given that the MCA, STR power amp, and STR integrated amp all have virtually flat frequency response from 20-20,000 Hz and have no ample power output.

 

[lovinthehd]

I am not sure, at different point I thought he said he did level match and had someone do the switching via a switch box so that he could not tell which one was playing. Then on post#127 he explained that the Carver hooked up to his Onkyo sounded better, but apparently just more bass. He also reported the STR amp sounded best, citing the "6K price". Also, in the beginning of that post (#127), he said "Telling them apart, I barely notice the difference except for slight bass. " So I am a little confused, but suffice to say he really couldn't tell much of a difference aside from the perceived "more bass..". The more bass thing could not really be explained, given that the MCA, STR power amp, and STR integrated amp all have virtually flat frequency response from 20-20,000 Hz and have no ample power output.

When I asked the question about level match/blind in post 134 he answered in post 135: "Possible on the level matching not being done right. However the switch box we knew which was playing, not doing blind test.". I believe by level matching they were talking about the same volume position on the pre-amp.

The Carver amp I'm sure also is flat response as well in any case.

 

[PENG]

When I asked the question about level match/blind in post 134 he answered in post 135: "Possible on the level matching not being done right. However the switch box we knew which was playing, not doing blind test.". I believe by level matching they were talking about the same volume position on the pre-amp.

The Carver amp I'm sure also is flat response as well in any case.


View attachment 26927

That particular Carver model was apparently the one modified (transfer function) to emulate the then $12,000 Conrad Johnson Premiere 4 and I thought you mentioned something about that yourself in an earlier post. You are right though, the CJ amp should be virtually flat too, 20Hz to 20kHz +0, -.5 db but it's tube amp, so Carver must have modified the m1.0t to include the same kind of harmonic distortions.

 

[Cjamrr]

When I asked the question about level match/blind in post 134 he answered in post 135: "Possible on the level matching not being done right. However the switch box we knew which was playing, not doing blind test.". I believe by level matching they were talking about the same volume position on the pre-amp.

The Carver amp I'm sure also is flat response as well in any case.


View attachment 26927

As for all the amps played. Couldn’t say You would approve of my methods of testing, I tried. I know for such an old amp to sound as good, if not better than the Anthems, i felt sad. I was ready to purchase any of the Anthems. I am very happy with my Focals. I may never find that sound I’m looking for. I noted all amps suggested from all Audioholics in this thread and will research and keep reading all forums as well. Meanwhile, I’m gonna rock on and enjoy what I have which is much better than what I had a month ago. Thank you all very much.

 

[lovinthehd]

As for all the amps played. Couldn’t say You would approve of my methods of testing, I tried. I know for such an old amp to sound as good, if not better than the Anthems, i felt sad. I was ready to purchase any of the Anthems. I am very happy with my Focals. I may never find that sound I’m looking for. I noted all amps suggested from all Audioholics in this thread and will research and keep reading all forums as well. Meanwhile, I’m gonna rock on and enjoy what I have which is much better than what I had a month ago. Thank you all very much.

Nothing wrong with a rebuilt Carver. I've got a couple Carvers that are over 30 years old and have thought about having them gone thru; I had another slightly older one that went up in a puff of smoke and the last time I plugged one of the two remaining it acted odd so I unplugged it and put it aside. I don't need them in any case and if I did I'd probably just buy another Crown XLS amp (have four of those) as they're relatively inexpensive and do the job just as well.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time on the test procedure, but if not level matched and quick switched blind, it's just not much to go on for comparison purposes. Indeed, you may not find that sound you're looking for, especially by changing amp. Your room has a far greater influence, as do your speakers. Room treatment would be a better idea I think. Good luck in scratching that audio itch, and don't forget to enjoy the content rather than worrying about the gear so much....