amp vs DAC - which upgrade?

[rushwj]

hello all,
i currently have paradigm reference 60s v5 with matching center (cc-590) and ref 10s for rears running off an integra 70.2 receiver (145 wpc). overall really nice sonic performance. i listen to most (99%) of my music through sonos w/ MOG and rhapsody, pandora, songza etc...). i'm considering adding either an Emotiva 3 channel 200 wpc external amplifier or an external DAC from the sonos (thinking Arcam rDac or SimAudio Moon d100). the price between these different upgrades not really the issue here as they're all close enough in price (around $500-600 or so range). just wanted some thoughts on which people would go with, if any as for upgrading. thanks.
-bill

 

[jinjuku]

I would get a sub.

 

[rushwj]

sorry, i forgot to mention that. i have the SVS - PB13 Ultra, i'll edit the original post. i absolutely agree, that would be the next step given the original post information i gave. the pb13 ultra is definitely a great help and i really like it!

 

[j_garcia]

An amp isn't going to give you a massive increase in audio quality unless the Digms are struggling on the Integra or you require additional volume. The Studios are generally demanding, but you have 60s which aren't as bad as 100s. If you had 100s, I'd say amp for sure. Is the current setup lacking something?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I'd agree with jinjuku, but you already have extremely capable sub very solid electronics already
I would not add amp or especially DAC
If anything you could consider swapping mains and center.
Try one of brands which offer 30 days money back like Salk, Ascend, EmpTek

otherwise consider getting speaker measuring tools (about $100 investment) and room treatments

Keep in mind that speakers are responsible for over 80% of the sound. 15% room acoustics and 5% electronics (if they have sufficient and clean power in amp stage)

 

[rushwj]

i feel like there is some clarity and musicality that is lost a bit w/ the sonos, but the convenience of it is just too great to not use it. i have it going to my integra via digital/coax and analog, and when i use the integra's dac (digital output), there is a definite improvement over the analog outs (sonos dac). so i was wondering if an external dac would be better. i don't feel as though they have trouble getting the volume i desire w/ movies or music, just didn't know how much an external amp would/would not help. room treatments would be difficult given it's our main family room, but i try to have good heavy curtains to cover windows, plenty of pictures on the walls w/o glass over them and lots of plush furniture that would do more to absorb sound rather than reflect it. thanks for the thoughts so far.

 

[slipperybidness]

i feel like there is some clarity and musicality that is lost a bit w/ the sonos, but the convenience of it is just too great to not use it. i have it going to my integra via digital/coax and analog, and when i use the integra's dac (digital output), there is a definite improvement over the analog outs (sonos dac). so i was wondering if an external dac would be better. i don't feel as though they have trouble getting the volume i desire w/ movies or music, just didn't know how much an external amp would/would not help. room treatments would be difficult given it's our main family room, but i try to have good heavy curtains to cover windows, plenty of pictures on the walls w/o glass over them and lots of plush furniture that would do more to absorb sound rather than reflect it. thanks for the thoughts so far.

+1 to room treatments

 

[ImcLoud]

I would go with the amp, I know most of the speakers I play sound better with more power on tap... DAC's are nice, but I honestly like the cheapest one I own the best, the audio engine dac is awesome..

 

[its phillip]

I would add another sub

 

[macddmac]

What is the quality of the source material you're streaming ?
If it's not lossless or hi bit-rate material, it will likely sound unimpressive.
Cheers, Mac

 

[fmw]

i feel like there is some clarity and musicality that is lost a bit w/ the sonos, .

Oh oh. Audiophile alert. Just kidding. DAC's are DAC's. The only thing buying an external DAC will do is improve the bottom line of whomever got the sale. You don't need an external amp. But if you are dying to spend money on your system, then get whichever makes you happier.

 

[jinjuku]

I would try stuff, whether amp or DAC etc..., that gives you a good return policy.

With the budget other speakers are not going to be doable (just wanted to point out the obvious for some others in thread).

 

[cpp]

hello all,
i currently have paradigm reference 60s v5 with matching center (cc-590) and ref 10s for rears running off an integra 70.2 receiver (145 wpc). overall really nice sonic performance. i listen to most (99%) of my music through sonos w/ MOG and rhapsody, pandora, songza etc...). i'm considering adding either an Emotiva 3 channel 200 wpc external amplifier or an external DAC from the sonos (thinking Arcam rDac or SimAudio Moon d100). the price between these different upgrades not really the issue here as they're all close enough in price (around $500-600 or so range). just wanted some thoughts on which people would go with, if any as for upgrading. thanks.
-bill

So what's wrong with your current setup, what's missing , what are you looking to get out of a new amp or external DAC.... You Intergra already supports a Burr-Brown 192K / 24-Bit Audio DAC.
Or are you just in the mood to spend some money.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would get a sub.

+1.

A sub or two.

Forget the amp or DAC.

 

[panteragstk]

What is the quality of the source material you're streaming ?
If it's not lossless or hi bit-rate material, it will likely sound unimpressive.
Cheers, Mac

It seems that he is mainly using internet radio from his Sonos setup. While nice and convenient, it isn't going to sound all that great. Source material is just as important as the rest of your equipment. All "better" amps and DACs are going to do is a better job of processing/amplifying a crappy source.

 

[RichB]

It seems that he is mainly using internet radio from his Sonos setup. While nice and convenient, it isn't going to sound all that great. Source material is just as important as the rest of your equipment. All "better" amps and DACs are going to do is a better job of processing/amplifying a crappy source.

+1. So maybe the sub suggestion is the best as for most power = bass.

I have heard improvements when listening to Pandora via the BDP-105 DAC/Analog section and with the Marantz AV8801.
Both are superior to the TiVo which is awful since it converts everything to 48K.

Also, at least with Pandora One, you can only get 320K with PC streaming on 128K from dedicated devices, which may be a vote for the DAC

- Rich

 

[panteragstk]

Also, at least with Pandora One, you can only get 320K with PC streaming on 128K from dedicated devices, which may be a vote for the DAC

- Rich

Interesting. 320k should sound OK (better than OK), but I wonder if he's getting that with Sonos or the 128k stream?

 

[RichB]

Interesting. 320k should sound OK (better than OK), but I wonder if he's getting that with Sonos or the 128k stream?

Every year when I renew Pandora One, I send an inquiry about 320K support and the response for 3 years has been that it is only support from Windows (although it may be any OS browser).

Last time I asked (fall 2012), embedded devices support only 128K due to budgetary constraints.
I wonder what they did with the cash from going public.

- Rich

 

[rushwj]

my most common source material through the sonos is MOG & rhapsody w/ a fair amount of pandora one and songza mixed in. occ. files from computer of various qualities. i always set my mog services to the highest quality allowable by them, and i believe mog is 320 (but dont' quote me on that, i could easily be wrong). i'm just making the reasonable assumption that i've not reached the best i can in audio quality and curious as to whether any improvements are likely to be made with the external amp or dac. thanks.