Amp outlet power source

H

HipSonic

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
1
#1
Help, I'd like to know if the Crown XLS 2502 need to be plugged into a dedicated 20 amp outlet or can I get the maximum output from a 15amp socket. I have a pair of Triton Reference that are 93.5 Db efficient with a maximum power handling of 600 watts, in a dedicated theater room, and I want to push them to their limits. I'm just not sure what power source I need.
 
Drunkpenguin

Drunkpenguin

Full Audioholic
Ratings
315 2
#6
I run a 1000 watt amp for 5 speakers plus 6 more speakers on the avr at 125 watts each, a projector, blue ray player, and fire tv all on a single 15 amp breaker. No problems.
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
1,227 7 34
#7
Rather than say at my place we plug in 20 devices and it all works fine, how about a deliberate and measured approach to tell you whether or not you may need more current in a branch circuit? Gene just wrote a fine article about the needs of amplifiers for current draw and just how close many of us may be to crossing the line where a 15 amp shared circuit isn't enough and a dedicated 20 amp may be necessary.

Being Gene, the article has charts n graphs and techno language. It does a thorough job of describing the conditions that may show your 15amp circuit simply may not be enough. Its also reassuring to be able to discover that your existing 15 amp circuit is just fine (that's what many of us would discover)

GENE'S ARTICLE ON AMPLIFIER POWER REQUIREMENTS
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Spartan
Ratings
2,346 7 3
#8
Help, I'd like to know if the Crown XLS 2502 need to be plugged into a dedicated 20 amp outlet or can I get the maximum output from a 15amp socket. I have a pair of Triton Reference that are 93.5 Db efficient with a maximum power handling of 600 watts, in a dedicated theater room, and I want to push them to their limits. I'm just not sure what power source I need.
Your ears are gonna bleed before you max out that amp, 15A or 20A, it will end the same.
 
H

HipSonic

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
1
#9
Rather than say at my place we plug in 20 devices and it all works fine, how about a deliberate and measured approach to tell you whether or not you may need more current in a branch circuit? Gene just wrote a fine article about the needs of amplifiers for current draw and just how close many of us may be to crossing the line where a 15 amp shared circuit isn't enough and a dedicated 20 amp may be necessary.

Being Gene, the article has charts n graphs and techno language. It does a thorough job of describing the conditions that may show your 15amp circuit simply may not be enough. Its also reassuring to be able to discover that your existing 15 amp circuit is just fine (that's what many of us would discover)

GENE'S ARTICLE ON AMPLIFIER POWER REQUIREMENTS
Thank you very much. This helps a lot.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
3,887 16 36
#13
Thank you. After reading the article, I've placed the amp on its own dedicated line, and will be buying another amp so that I run them both in bridge mode to each speaker.
Why do you want to run them in bridge mode? There's already more than enough power in one channel already....
 
Drunkpenguin

Drunkpenguin

Full Audioholic
Ratings
315 2
#14
I asked SVS a while back if dual PC13 Ultras (1000 watts each) would be ok on one 15 amp circuit and heres the response they gave me. May help others.


Subwoofer amps are transient load devices (unlike steady draw devices like vacuum cleaners, space heaters, hair dryers, etc.). The steady draw devices are what typically will trip a circuit breaker, not audio equipment.

Using our most powerful model as an example (our others will be proportionately lower based on RMS rating),the 16-Ultra has a 1500W amp. But it won't pull that much power from the outlet except at the max playback level and only for brief periods. While the below are estimates, you can expect the subwoofer to pull about the following power levels under various conditions:

• standby = <0.5W

• on at idle with no signal = 22W

• low to moderate volumes = 50W-200W

• loud to very loud volumes = 300W-1500W

Power = Voltage x Amperage. Peak amperage draw for a 120V source would be 1500W = 120V x Amps = 12.5A, but that would only be for a very brief period. The average amperage draw would be much lower of course, typically 1-3 amps at most playback levels. A circuit breaker will pass much more current than its rated capacity – but only for brief periods of time – it’s the steady state devices mentioned above which are problematic. Typically, even dual 16-Ultras on a single 15A breaker will be just fine.

Hope that helps!

Jack Gilvey
Customer Service Manager
SVS | Specialty Technologies
877.626.5623 [customer service]
custservice@svsound.com
jackg@svsound.com
www.svsound.com
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,352 7 1
#15
Breaker will not trip, but if you drive the two PC13U to their limits, during some peak demands for very short durations, a 15 A breaker fed by a long run, say 30 ft or longer, may have enough voltage drop, that may result in some current limiting depending on how short the duration is, and the storage capacity of the bash amps. I am sure SVS is right, it is not something that people (at least for most people) need to worry about.
 
H

HipSonic

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
1
#16
Why do you want to run them in bridge mode? There's already more than enough power in one channel already....
The amp says that it outputs 440 watts per channel, the max power handling of the speakers is 600 watts, so I figured if I run the amps in bridge mode I benefit from the extra headroom unless there is a factor that I'm not considering. That said, I am here to be educated if there's something I am missing, please advise.
 
H

HipSonic

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
1
#17
I asked SVS a while back if dual PC13 Ultras (1000 watts each) would be ok on one 15 amp circuit and heres the response they gave me. May help others.


Subwoofer amps are transient load devices (unlike steady draw devices like vacuum cleaners, space heaters, hair dryers, etc.). The steady draw devices are what typically will trip a circuit breaker, not audio equipment.

Using our most powerful model as an example (our others will be proportionately lower based on RMS rating),the 16-Ultra has a 1500W amp. But it won't pull that much power from the outlet except at the max playback level and only for brief periods. While the below are estimates, you can expect the subwoofer to pull about the following power levels under various conditions:

• standby = <0.5W

• on at idle with no signal = 22W

• low to moderate volumes = 50W-200W

• loud to very loud volumes = 300W-1500W

Power = Voltage x Amperage. Peak amperage draw for a 120V source would be 1500W = 120V x Amps = 12.5A, but that would only be for a very brief period. The average amperage draw would be much lower of course, typically 1-3 amps at most playback levels. A circuit breaker will pass much more current than its rated capacity – but only for brief periods of time – it’s the steady state devices mentioned above which are problematic. Typically, even dual 16-Ultras on a single 15A breaker will be just fine.

Hope that helps!

Jack Gilvey
Customer Service Manager
SVS | Specialty Technologies
877.626.5623 [customer service]
custservice@svsound.com
jackg@svsound.com
www.svsound.com
That was pretty helpful. Full disclosure, the reason I even posed the question is that I also purchased an Emotiva XPA gen 2, five channel Amp, rated at 300 watts per channel / all channels driven. Emotiva advised that their amp is operated on a dedicated 20A line and that 10AWG speaker wire is utilized to ensure the optimal performance and the protection of my equipment. That is what got me to thinking about the Crown Amps and their power source, however, unlike the Emotiva Amp(s),the Crowns did not come with any specifications, which is why I turned to the brilliant minds here in this forum, as to how I should set them up, and all of you have been extremely helpful. The knowledge found here is why I come to the forum to be educated.
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Senior Audioholic
Ratings
272 6 4
#18
You can snake in a 120V/20A circuit if necessary. Simply changing the outlet doesn't meet Code as a 15A circuit uses 14GA Nomex in the walls; a 20A circuit requires a 20A breaker in the panel, 12 GA Nomex wiring and a 15/20 (typically) combination outlet. You could also use a 20A outlet but it's uncommon as you can't use it with a 15A plug, so it's inconvenient.

Also you would be required to take out a Permit and although you can do most of the work, leaving a generous amount of wire at each end, a Licensed Electrician has to do the actual hookup at the panel and the outlet and sign off on the Permit.

If you are making a repair (replacing an outlet with the same rated one as you are replacing) no Permit is required and you can do it yourself, but making a change requires a Permit and an Electrician.

As far as requirements go, ignore the power rating of the amp and look for the information on the device for watts drawn by the device(s),(a label near the power cord or connector is required by law and tells you what wattage or amperage is needed as far as your wiring goes).

watts x volts = amps (xW times 120 = A)
amps / volts = watts (xA divided by 120 = W)

A safety margin is typical, eg a 15A circuit at the panel is usually considered safe for a 13A load at the outlet. 13 x 120 = 1,560 watts*,

The reason a safety margin is recommended is the circuit will try to deliver what ever load you put on it, it's not a hard and fast limit. So if you try to draw 2000 watts* from a 15A outlet, it will deliver those 2000 watts* at least for a while, heating the wiring in your walls in the process.

Breakers do not measure power, they measure heat, so it's heat that trips the breaker, and it's heat that causes electrical fires. Each time a breaker trips, it's life is potentially shortened, and it's possible it may not trip after some time or after x number of trip events. That's when the extra load can cause a fire.

* watts from the label, or from the total of all labels if mulitple loads are on the same outlet or line, not the spec sheet referring to power to the speakers, remember.
 
Last edited:
H

HipSonic

Audioholic Intern
Ratings
1
#19
You can snake in a 120V/20A circuit if necessary. Simply changing the outlet doesn't meet Code as a 15A circuit uses 14GA Nomex in the walls; a 20A circuit requires a 20A breaker in the panel, 12 GA Nomex wiring and a 15/20 (typically) combination outlet. You could also use a 20A outlet but it's uncommon as you can't use it with a 15A plug, so it's inconvenient.

Also you would be required to take out a Permit and although you can do most of the work, leaving a generous amount of wire at each end, a Licensed Electrician has to do the actual hookup at the panel and the outlet and sign off on the Permit.

If you are making a repair (replacing an outlet with the same rated one as you are replacing) no Permit is required and you can do it yourself, but making a change requires a Permit and an Electrician.

As far as requirements go, ignore the power rating of the amp and look for the information on the device for watts drawn by the device(s),(a label near the power cord or connector is required by law and tells you what wattage or amperage is needed as far as your wiring goes).

watts x volts = amps (xW times 120 = A)
amps / volts = watts (xA divided by 120 = W)

A safety margin is typical, eg a 15A circuit at the panel is usually considered safe for a 13A load at the outlet. 13 x 120 = 1,560 watts*,

The reason a safety margin is recommended is the circuit will try to deliver what ever load you put on it, it's not a hard and fast limit. So if you try to draw 2000 watts* from a 15A outlet, it will deliver those 2000 watts* at least for a while, heating the wiring in your walls in the process.

Breakers do not measure power, they measure heat, so it's heat that trips the breaker, and it's heat that causes electrical fires. Each time a breaker trips, it's life is potentially shortened, and it's possible it may not trip after some time or after x number of trip events. That's when the extra load can cause a fire.

* watts from the label, or from the total of all labels if mulitple loads are on the same outlet or line, not the spec sheet referring to power to the speakers, remember.
All of that was done, even had a new breaker installed, with multiple 20A lines ran in every room with a major A/V set up...i.e living room, basement family room, dedicated theater, loft, utility room, etc.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
3,887 16 36
#20
The amp says that it outputs 440 watts per channel, the max power handling of the speakers is 600 watts, so I figured if I run the amps in bridge mode I benefit from the extra headroom unless there is a factor that I'm not considering. That said, I am here to be educated if there's something I am missing, please advise.
Partly that your speakers don't just run at 8 ohms, they dip to 4ohms too. Why do you need the headroom particularly? You plan on playing at ear bleeding levels constantly? Bridging speakers limits your ability for lower impedance, too. The 2502 per channel should be quite fine.
 

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