Amp for B&W 803s

[scorpious]

Dear members,

I own a pair of used B&W 803s speakers. I am looking for a set of amps to run these speakers in a 2CH setup. After doing some research, i found few amps' that are rated at 200W at 8ohms. I cant stretch my budget over $2000 for both amp and Preamp (both USED). I am leaning towards Classe' CA-300 for the AMP and Classe' CP-35 as preAMP. Please suggest if they are suitable for the setup. I saw that the output Impedence of the preAMP is way less than 10*input IMPedance, and both being from the same manufacturer, the reason behind my selection. If you have a different suggestion that I can lean into Please advice me. The source comp is my OppoDV970, and Ipod (hope fully a Wadia). The music I listed to Classic's, Pop, Techno and Orchestras.

Your valuable Advice is most appreciated

Ashish

 

[EJ1]

Would you be interested in an integrated amp? If so, I'd recommend a used Musical Fidelity A5. 250w per channel as well.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1233443648&/Musical-Fidelity-A5-Integrated

 

[scorpious]

Thank you EJ1, yes ofcourse, I would like the system to sound good and Enough to power the speaker, thats the main concern, If the IntAmp does it, I will very well get it, and of cource save some money.

Ashish

 

[EJ1]

You can pick up the integrated for $1500, saving you $500. Classe makes good gear as well. Is there a dealer in your area that will let you audition some items?

Here are some reviews: http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/integrated-amplifiers/musical-fidelity/a5/PRD_332967_2717crx.aspx

The fifth reviewer is also using 803S's.

 

[scorpious]

EJ1

Yes i did listen to a pair of 805's which i originally wanted. But then chose the 803 as better suited. I listened to Rotel 1062, which i really liked on the 805. I looked at the specs on the Musical fedility A5, Found the THD is 0.01%. how much does it really effect in terms when you compare with classe or any other Amp with a THD of 0.004%?

Also, I heard the toroidal transformer in a Amp has to have a Large VA, I am not very sure about it, could you let me know more about it and how does it affect the performance of a AmP? and does this amp stand up to a high VA value?

 

[WmAx]

OP: are cosmetics very important to you? If not, then there is no reason to spend that much on the preamp and amp! In fact, you are getting a pathetically weak amp for that budget if you go 'audiophile' amp!

If I were you, I would get a nice pre-amp with balanced outputs, or one without and use a balanced line convertor transformer, and feed a high quality high power pro amp like the Yamaha P3500S. Extremely high build quality and performance with high power. Low price. But it has that 'industrial' look, not a thick aluminum polished front face plate.... and some people will pay a fortune just to get the fancy cosmetic....

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

EJ1

Yes i did listen to a pair of 805's which i originally wanted. But then chose the 803 as better suited. I listened to Rotel 1062, which i really liked on the 805. I looked at the specs on the Musical fedility A5, Found the THD is 0.01%. how much does it really effect in terms when you compare with classe or any other Amp with a THD of 0.004%?

Heck,the THD amount specced is not likely to be accurate when comparing amps. The THD spec quoted is often under different specific circumstances of testing from brand to brand. If not under the exact same conditions of test, the values simply can not be compared.

Also, I heard the toroidal transformer in a Amp has to have a Large VA, I am not very sure about it, could you let me know more about it and how does it affect the performance of a AmP? and does this amp stand up to a high VA value?

For a given physical size, a toroidal xformer has a higher VA compared to a traditional one. That is all. Also ,a toroidal has more desirable magnetic field that causes less circuit interference, if all things are held equal. But you can use a traditional xformer to the same effect if it shielded properly and placed in the chassis remotely from the sensitive parts of the circuit.

-Chris

 

[scorpious]

Chris: THanks for the input. cosmetics are least of my concerns. Performance and reliability are on the tops. I chose the Classe' as I heard they match very well with the B&W's. But i guess for the same price there are other AMP's which perform very well as well. EJ1, thank you very much for the detailed explanation. I think i will go ahead and purchase the MF A5.

Ashish

 

[WmAx]

Chris: THanks for the input. cosmetics are least of my concerns. Performance and reliability are on the tops. I chose the Classe' as I heard they match very well with the B&W's. But i guess for the same price there are other AMP's which perform very well as well. EJ1, thank you very much for the detailed explanation. I think i will go ahead and purchase the MF A5.

Ashish

While they are nice, the Classe' is no better than the pro amps I recommended, except in the cosmetics area..... and the pro amp would get you far more power for your dollar -- a real benefit for you if you listen to highly dynamic material. Some classical/opera works for example have 30+ dB dynamics. But if you only listen to normal jazz/pop/rock, the average dynamic range is no higher than 15 or 16 dB on most releases made in the last 7 or so years. I'm not downing your purchase -- it's a nice amp. I am just trying to be informational. I often come off as abrasive - but this is totally not the intention!

-Chris

 

[scorpious]

Chris, I have been trying to look for a used Yamaha, At least on audiogon iam having trouble finding it. have you compared the MF A5 and the Yamaha P3500, If you have whats your take on either of them?

Ashish

 

[EJ1]

You could purchase both to demo. A new Yamaha is only $500 from zzsounds.com. Then decide which one you like. If you like the Yamaha better, just throw the MF back on Audiogon. If you like the MF, I'm sure you'd be able to return it to zzsounds.

 

[scorpious]

Is the P3500 a IntAmp? or do I need to purchase a seperate PreAmp to power the Yamaha? Also I have heard about transparent cables, which are way too expensive, Could you suggest good value cables and Interconnects, 4 set of interconnects for Oppo DV970, Cable box, Pioneer 1140HD, and Ipod base (wadia) to the IntAmp. and a Pair of speaker cables from the Amp to Speaker. I have read about Velocity and Monster, not sure any suggestions?

Ashish

 

[WmAx]

Chris, I have been trying to look for a used Yamaha, At least on audiogon iam having trouble finding it. have you compared the MF A5 and the Yamaha P3500, If you have whats your take on either of them?

Ashish

The Yamaha is simply a transparent amp(low output impedance, flat response, low noise floor). I use the Yamahas in my main dedicated 2 channel system, which is a highly acoustically controlled room with speakers that have very low resonance and very wide dispersion, well beyond what most commercial products provide. I design speakers. I used to use all McIntosh amps, actually, but I could not justify them just for cosmetics when I learned that their sound was "all in my head". The Yamahas are actually better: I get a lot more power for my dollar, which is more important to me than cosmetics. I listen to some music with 30+ dB dynamics, and this headroom is very useful in those circumstances. I will presume the MF is also transparent. But do pay heed to my statement about the Yamaha having to be sent a signal from a balanced output preamp. This will ensure the Yamaha gets the necessary voltage input so you keep it's gain low and the noise floor low. It is a pro audio device and is designed to work at higher voltages than typical consumer gear RCA unbalanced outputs have. Some RCA outputs also have high voltage output. You really have to check the pre-amp output specifications. If the preamp has say, 4 or move volts output from the pre-amp section, it is probably sufficient to drive the Yamaha input using just a simple RCA to XLR adapter. But many good pres today come with balanced audio outputs and RCA outputs. I don't know what model preamp you are considering.

If you have a local Yamaha dealer, you can probably talk them into knocking $50-$70 bucks or so off the price. My local dealer did. I use the P2500S and the P3500S in a tri-amped active system. If you go with online purchase, I urge you to us www.zzounds.com as they have some of the best customer service I have ever used.

-Chris

 

[EJ1]

Is the P3500 a IntAmp? or do I need to purchase a seperate PreAmp to power the Yamaha? Also I have heard about transparent cables, which are way too expensive, Could you suggest good value cables and Interconnects, 4 set of interconnects for Oppo DV970, Cable box, Pioneer 1140HD, and Ipod base (wadia) to the IntAmp. and a Pair of speaker cables from the Amp to Speaker. I have read about Velocity and Monster, not sure any suggestions?

Ashish

I have some Transparent interconnects and they aren't worth it to me. I recommend http://bluejeanscable.com.

 

[WmAx]

Is the P3500 a IntAmp? or do I need to purchase a seperate PreAmp to power the Yamaha? Also I have heard about transparent cables, which are way too expensive, Could you suggest good value cables and Interconnects, 4 set of interconnects for Oppo DV970, Cable box, Pioneer 1140HD, and Ipod base (wadia) to the IntAmp. and a Pair of speaker cables from the Amp to Speaker. I have read about Velocity and Monster, not sure any suggestions?

Ashish

The Yamaha is only an amplifier. Not a pre-amp. The controls on it are individual left and right gain controls. Please take note of my last post in regards to the pre-amp requirements. You can also use an active converter like an Art CleanBox if your pre-amp has insufficient output voltage.

I don't like to recommend high end cables like 'Trasparent' and such. Just get high quality cables - which does not mean they have to be expensive. If you want superbly measuring cables(technically excellent), you could go to http://www.bluejeanscable.com and buy what you need and get the performance for far cheaper than you will get from a 'high end' label like Transparent. Or just buy really low cost cables from a place like www.monoprice.com ; they have some really low prices and good quality cables.

-Chris

 

[scorpious]

Chris & EJ1
Thanks again for the detailed input, I am definitely learning a lot
I havent considered a PreAmp yet and would be ditching the classe preAmp I earlier had in mind. And for the Yamaha P3500s I am unsure about PreAmp specs. The voltage output, output impedence???!!!.

The Yamaha P3500s has 30Kohm balanced Input impedance, so as for the PreAmp would require to have anything less than 3Kohm, am I correct on that?. As far as the input voltage goes, I couldnt find any for the P3500.

Any suggestions on the PreAmp best suitable for the Yamaha P3500s?

Thank you for the bluejeanscable, thats was one in my mind which i forgot to quote. I really appreciate all you help.

Ashish

 

[WmAx]

And for the Yamaha P3500s I am unsure about PreAmp specs. The voltage output, output impedence???!!!.

The Yamaha P3500s has 30Kohm balanced Input impedance, so as for the PreAmp would require to have anything less than 3Kohm, am I correct on that?. As far as the input voltage goes, I couldnt find any for the P3500.

A 1:10 ratio for impedance is ideal, of course. As for voltage, a balanced XLR output is supposed to have several times the voltage output of a consumer RCA output, and as a result, a device like the Yamaha amp expects that higher voltage; it's input stage was designed with this in mind. If you connect a regular consumer device to it's input, you would likely have to turn the gains up high on the Yamaha, causing possible noise/hiss.

Any suggestions on the PreAmp best suitable for the Yamaha P3500s?

The Adcom GFP750 has balanced outputs and is considered a very high quality device. This is just one example. You'll have to look these up. I think Parasound has some balanced output pre-amps as well.

BTW, if you ever intend on using subwoofers on your system, then you can avoid having to use a balanced output pre-amp by using a DCX2496 by Behringer. This is a sophisticated DSP xover and EQ system. It would be used by connecting the pre-amp output to the DCX input and then sending a pair of DCX outputs to your main speaker amp and then another pair of DCX output to the subwoofers. This DCX will allow ideal integration of the mains/subs for seamless response, and in addition, allow room correction and allow custom modification of the signal to get the specific bass signature that you desire, as well as acting as a precision filter to customize your main channel response. The DCX has balanced inputs, but it's input pre-amp was specifically designed to also take consumer unbalanced voltages and boost them for internal use of the DCX, so you can use a simple direct RCA to XLR adapter and feed the DCX inputs, and then feed the balanced DCX outputs to the amplifier(s).

BTW, the Yamaha amps have rack mount wings. Some people find these annoying, as they don't look right mixed with other gear in the system. But, be aware, these wings come off. A few screws hold them on and they are easily removed.

-Chris

 

[scorpious]

Chris,

This is the setup i will be going for.

Parasound - Halo P3 Balanced Preamplifier + Yamaha P3500s + bluejeans cables.
I hope I got it right.

Thank you all for the advice.

Ashish

 

[WmAx]

Chris,

This is the setup i will be going for.

Parasound - Halo P3 Balanced Preamplifier + Yamaha P3500s + bluejeans cables.
I hope I got it right.

Thank you all for the advice.

Ashish

Sounds nice. BTW, I could swear in one pro audio review, the reviewer was complaining that the P3 had audible hiss from like 3 or so feet away from the speakers, even though the amp he was using was otherwise silent with his main pre-amp. If I was you, I would follow up and search for data and ask owner opinions on this with this model, especially using it's balanced outputs.

-Chris

 

[scorpious]

Sounds nice. BTW, I could swear in one pro audio review, the reviewer was complaining that the P3 had audible hiss from like 3 or so feet away from the speakers, even though the amp he was using was otherwise silent with his main pre-amp. If I was you, I would follow up and search for data and ask owner opinions on this with this model, especially using it's balanced outputs.

-Chris

Chris, this is what I found,

from this report, http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_4/parasound-halo-p3-preamplifier-10-2002.html

" I was disappointed with the P 3 using the balanced connections, but I believe that was a problem specific to my setup. If you have a sensitive amp or efficient speakers the single-ended connections might be a better option for you. Regardless, I highly recommend you try the balanced outputs to see how they perform in your system. I have not tested the matching Parasound A23 with the P 3, but I am sure Parasound has accounted for the sensitivity issue in the design. "

so its with the unbalanced outs he got the hiss, and he did not used the balanced outs as he was disapointed with the results. It would be atrial and error game with the yamaha P3500s i guess

Ashish