Amp for 9 speakers?

P

pjoseph

Full Audioholic
I am helping a friend of mine out with his stereo in his house.

Here is what he wants:

There will be a total of 11 speakers.

5 in the living room for movies ect....

2 in ceiling speakers in kitchen
2 in ceiling speakers in room dining room
2 speakers outside.
No speakers have been purchased yet but cables have been ran for ceiling speakers.
He wants the following flexibility.
-play only 5 speakers in living room all others off.
-play speakers in kitchen and room next to kitchen all others off (4 total)
-play outside speakers only all others off (2 total)
-play all speakers together (11)
So I am not sure if I should try to get one receiver to hook all 11 up or use two receivers and have the 5 for surround sound hooked to one and others to another receiver.

any suggestions would be appreciated

thanks
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The 5 speakers for the surround should be on an AV receiver with all of the sources connected to it, as well as the subwoofer (if desired). The rest fall under the category of 'distributed audio', and should be managed as such. Distributed audio doesn't need to have stereo separation and to keep speaker placement easy, using dual voice coil speakers works best. The other way to handle a large number of speakers (this isn't really a large number, but it's not like "just an extra pair"). Impedance management is needed when more speakers are used and there are several ways to deal with this. One way involves volume controls for each pair- the controls have jumpers that allow you to maintain an impedance that makes the amplifier happy. The other way uses volume controls for each pair and one impedance compensation device. In either case, I would use volume controls that mute when the system is turned off. He would then press the mute button when the system turns on in the area where he wants music at that time. The muting volume controls use a small 12VDC power supply to provide the control voltage and either Cat5e or thin speaker wire will work, as long as it's rated for in-wall use (CL-2).

Another way to control the speakers and maintain a decent impedance is with a speaker switcher with volume controls, in one box. The drawback to this is that any time someone wants to turn any of the speakers on, off or change the volume, they need to go to the control box instead of the local volume control.

If the ceiling speaker wires are 2 conductor, I would add a second run from each volume control location so the dual voice coil type can be used. If the ceiling drywall has been installed, this is moot and he'll have to use single voice coil speakers. The volume controls wouldn't change, though.

With a 2 zone receiver, he'll need an analog audio connection from all of the sources so the extra zone will get the audio but that's not a big deal since everything is probably in one place. The amp for Zone 2 doesn't really need to be there but as long as it can run cool, it's no problem. I would recommend an amplifier that turns on when it receives the audio signal, so it doesn't require a separate command and nobody will forget to turn it on or off.

If he would want to listen to the radio inside and a different radio channel outside, a separate tuner can be connected to the AUX input, or a receiver can be used instead of a power amp for Zone 2. Remember, the distributed audio amp will provide XXX Watts/channel, not per speaker. The only way to have that is with a multi-channel amp with separate inputs.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
There are three zones to this system:

Zone 1: Surround
Zone 2: Kitchen/Dining
Zone 3: Outside

The easiest way to accomplish this is with a 3-zone surround receiver.

A product like the Denon AVR-3310CI can do this, but may be a bit pricey...
http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4972.asp#

You would still need a single external amplifier to power a set of speakers as well (either outside or more likely kitchen/dining room).

The other option is to go for something like a 2-zone receiver which includes the Denon AVR-2310 and 1910 receivers (a good bit less $$$), then hook zone 2 out of the receiver up to a halfway decent amplifier...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-AudioSource-AMP-AMP3-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ300404824572QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45f185d9fc

...or similar - lots of amplifiers out there which are decent and not expensive.

Now, there is a follow up question to this: How is volume to be controlled at the speakers in each room? If there is not a volume control knob location in each room, then you will need a speaker selector with volume control on it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RUSSOUND-SDB4-1-SPEAKER-SELECTOR-W-VOLUME-CONTROL_W0QQitemZ140397809333QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_2?hash=item20b05c8eb5

There is a bunch of stuff on eBay and online you can get which has the speaker selector and volume control built in. Basically, you turn on zone 2, and your outdoor and indoor speakers play the same thing (but the surround zone can be different), and you have the choice to turn on/off the kitchen, dining room, and outside speakers as you choose. Just press the on/off button on the speaker selector.

The downside is that all 3 areas of speakers must play the same thing.
The plus side is that each area can be turned on/off independently.
The other plus, is that this is relatively inexpensive.

If you have volume controls in each location (kitchen/dining room/outside) then you can just get a speaker selector without volume controls to turn on/off those areas.

Most speaker selectors have built in impedence matching and many volume controls do as well.
 
P

pjoseph

Full Audioholic
Thanks for your help guys

I am trying to keep this as cheap as possible since my buddy is not that into audio.

So for the living room with the 5 speakers I was thinking the
Denon AV 1910
Looking at the back of that receiver it looks like I can hook up at least 2 more speakers on B which I am assuming can be turned on or off independently of the front 5 is this correct?


If the above is correct all I need now is a 2 channel or 4 channel amp to power the kitchen and dining room (total of 4)

Also looking at the back of that denon amp above it says 12-16ohms for channels A +B does this mean if playing both A & B the speakers on each channel have to be a min of 12 ohms? this seems high to me.

thansk again
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
You do not want to use the internal amplification of a receiver to drive your home speakers. The loads can be difficult and strain the receiver's amps which can affect the listening in the main area.

Take zone 2 out of a 1910, into an amplifier, then to a speaker selector with volume control in it. The single amplifier will amplify all the other rooms with the same source, and the speaker selector with volume control will turns those rooms on/off and provide volume control for the individual rooms.

This is the least expensive way to do this while maintaining the highest reliability possible.

There are a ton of 2 channel amplifiers out there which are cheap and will work fine...
http://electronics.shop.ebay.com/Home-Audio-/14969/i.html?_nkw=2+channel+amplifier&_catref=1&_dmpt=Car_Amplifiers&_fln=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282

Not as many speaker selectors with volume controls, but you will be fine with anything halfway decent...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Speaker-Selector-Switch-Switcher-w-Level-Volume-Control_W0QQitemZ370353865001QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item563acf8129

So, probably about $700 in hardware + speakers + wiring.
 
P

pjoseph

Full Audioholic
Im not sure if i am clear on your post.

So should I use the Denon 1910 for the 5 speakers in zone 1 and feed the others using an external 2 channel amplifier.

Or should I NOT use the denon to power any speakers and use external amps only? How would I get 5.1 surround sound using a two channel amp?



Thanks again for your help.
 
MidnightSensi

MidnightSensi

Audioholic Samurai
Speakercraft offers a 12-channel amplifier that is pretty handy for distributed audio.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Im not sure if i am clear on your post.

So should I use the Denon 1910 for the 5 speakers in zone 1 and feed the others using an external 2 channel amplifier.

Or should I NOT use the denon to power any speakers and use external amps only? How would I get 5.1 surround sound using a two channel amp?
Use the Denon 1910 main zone for your 5.1 setup. All speakers, all sources, everything! You will have no issues at all for years to come and you won't be overdriving the unit or stealing power for a second zone of audio if you go this route.

Then, the stereo amplifier is for the other areas.

WIRING:
Cable Box -> Denon
Blu-ray Player -> Denon

Denon 5.1 audio out -> Speakers in your surround zone

Denon zone 2 RCA outs -> Good stereo amplifier input

Stereo Amplifiier outs -> Speaker selector/volume control

Speaker selector/volume control -> Speakers througout the home

Just an FYI: Speakercraft, Niles, Sonance, Rotel, and others all make multi-channel amplifiers designed for distributed audio. These provide a 'best' solution, and tend to have a price which matches. For example, a 12 channel, 30 watt per channel (12x30) amplifier runs about $1,200 MSRP, and around $1,000 or so online. eBay can deliver some of these for about $500. Which is over double what a stereo amplifier will run you, but these multi-channel distributed audio amplifiers are extremely durable and provide dedicated power to the zones as you need it. Just a fair bit more money.

For example: http://cgi.ebay.com/NILES-SI-1230-12-CHANNEL-INTEGRATION-POWER-AMPLIFIER-/300419233724?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f261b7bc
 
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