Am I being too picky?

[Shadow_Ferret]

I don't have a lot to spend and am generally limited in my choices, but still...

I'm starting with the usual suspects. Denon, HK, JVC, Kenwood, Marantz, Onkyo, Panasonic, Pioneer, Sherwood, Sony and Yamaha.

OK. I'm looking through Sound&Vision's buyer's guide and it says there's this thing called "bass-management processing". It's something used when playing DVD-Audio and SACD. Without it the receiver won't be able to redirect deep bass from the satellites (which can't handle it) to the subwoofers. At this point, I neither own a universal player or the discs, but I intend to make that my next purchase. (Also the speakers I am getting can go down as low as 58hz.)

Therefore, I should eliminate all receivers that don't have bass-management, right? Gone is Denon, HK, Onkyo, Sherwood, Sony and Yamaha (and Panasonic has * which means it isn't specified by the manufacturer).

So basically, all I'm left with is JVC, Kenwood, Marantz, and Pioneer. Now price might preclude the Marantz, too (I'm working around $250), which leaves me with JVC, Kenwood and Pioneer.

(I also eliminated the HK and Onkyo because their lower models have no power. Keep in mind the speakers I want have a sensitivity of 86 db. So I need power to push them.)

So at this point, unless you guys can debunk my bass-management thingie and my lack of power thingie, I'm looking at the JVC RX-8040, the Kenwood VR-8060, and the Pioneer VSX-D914.

(I could also eliminate the JVC because it doesn't have a phone input, but I think the turntable has low WAF, so nevermind that criteria. )

Any thoughts? Am I crazy?

 

[jaxvon]

Well, what's your budget? Is it $250? I didn't bother to look at the prices you listed. If you want to do bass management, you can do analog bass management with a unit from Outlaw. I've heard nothing but good things about it.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

Under $300. So basically, the Outlaw unit attaches to my receiver and does the bass-management?

Hmm. So if that takes care of my bass-management, and I can pick that up down the road along with my universal player, then I can drop that as a criteria?

Hmm. OK. Thanks.

But that still leaves HK and Onkyo out because I don't think they have enough power to blast me out of the living room

 

[nm2285]

I disagree about your power problem. HKs are rated differently from other receivers. They're rated at all channels driven. HKs provide more than sufficient power and are conservative in their statements. I would say the 50 watts of HK power will handidly match up to the 100watts of JVC or Kenwoods.

HK is my favorite brand in the budget price range because of their quality of build, power reserves, and focus on music/sound rather than features

 

[soniceuphoria]

I personally use a Yamaha reciever that I picked up at a pawn
shop for $200 and there are many good deals to be had on ebay also. I find that their power is more than adequate for most home theater aplications. They have many great features and great musicallity. The higher up you go in the model line the more room for improvement you leave yourself
in the future. They are very well built, and can take just about anything tou can throw at them. Happy listening.
Greg

 

[WooHoo]

Bass management for SACD and DVD-A are handled by the universal player and not the receiver as you need to feed the audio for these formates via analog outputs to get the hi resolution sound. I have not looked at the receivers you listed but be sure that you have at least 5.1 inputs on the receiver to even allow SACD and DVD-A. The bass management features on the receiver is for managing digital audio. All receivers have bass management to some degree with either a fixed or variable cross over and the ability to set your speakers to small or large thereby sending more or less of the low frequency signal to the sub.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

Thanks for the input. I considered the HK AVR135 until I read it only had 40watts, but if you say it'll work as well as a 100watter from someone else. OK. It doesn't have Prologic IIx. How important is that?

Of my choices, I might wait a couple more months and try to swing the Marantz SR4500. It seems the most feature rich and has the most inputs at that price range (except for phono input).

As far as the Pioneer VSX D914, is it more of a music or home theater receiver? Is it warm or harsh in the midrange? Since a lot of people here prefer Yamaha and Denon, how does it compare sonically to either of them?

 

[WoodieB]

As Woo mentioned, bass management for SACD & DVD-A is not handled by the receiver, it's handled by the universal disc player. And you are way off in your assesment of receiver bass management. You pretty much have to drop to the very bottom model in the lineup of any of the major manufacturers to not have bass management. All Denon models from the 1705 on up have it, implemented to different degrees as you spend more. This is for the digital audio sources. For SACD & DVD-A you have to use 6 analog interconnects, as they are not output via the digital out. With only a $250 budget for the receiver, SACD/DVD-A doesn't seem very cost effective, as only a few discs will add up to more than your receiver. Are you really sold on the 86db efficiency speakers? That's pretty inefficient. Speakers with a 90db efficiency would take less than half the power to reach the same volume levels. Just some thoughts.

 

[MDS]

Don't automatically dismiss a particular receiver based on power ratings. Although 86dB speakers really aren't that efficient, any of the receivers can drive them to extremely loud levels unless your room is huge.

Another thing is the often cited 'HK's 50 watts is like 100 watts from another brand'. Pure and total B.S. 50 watts per channel is 50 watts per channel. The only difference between HK and Yamaha/Denon/Onkyo et al is that HK explicitly states that their rating is derived when all channels are driven. The others state '2 channels driven'. Read the articles on this site about how power ratings are derived for more insight. In a nutshell, there are many ways to rate the power and 'all channels driven' is not important because rarely if ever (more like NEVER) will all channels be driven simultaneously.

Buy an HK if you like it's sound and useability, not because of the persistent myth that their lower rated receivers produce more power than their higher rated competition.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

Am I sold on the 86db speakers? At this point, nothing is set in stone, although I like them much more than any other speakers I've auditioned at this point. It's the NHT SB1s. Not only was I blown away by the big sound from such little speakers, the details taken with the hand rubbed finish of the box was very impressive.

My plan at this point (which can change at any time) is to get 4 NHT SB1s, an NHT SC1 for the center, and a Hsu STF-1. This pretty much blows my budget, leaving me with little wiggle room for the receiver. I'm of the mind that the speakers are the most important component in any system.

Also, FYI, my room is pretty small, 168 sq ft, something like 1300 cu. ft.

 

[sjdgpt]

Am I sold on the 86db speakers? At this point, nothing is set in stone, although I like them much more than any other speakers I've auditioned at this point. It's the NHT SB1s. Not only was I blown away by the big sound from such little speakers, the details taken with the hand rubbed finish of the box was very impressive.

My plan at this point (which can change at any time) is to get 4 NHT SB1s, an NHT SC1 for the center, and a Hsu STF-1. This pretty much blows my budget, leaving me with little wiggle room for the receiver. I'm of the mind that the speakers are the most important component in any system.

Also, FYI, my room is pretty small, 168 sq ft, something like 1300 cu. ft.

The real power drain is bass, and with a built in amp with the sub, your main speakers really won't require much power.

Small room disease. Decent effeciency speakers. I would say 2 or 3 watts of power would get your ears buzzing. Cranking up to 40 watts and you should have ear bleed problems.

By the way, that all channels driven idea is pretty much meaningless. Most of the signal is going to be sent to A) the center speaker or B) the pair of front main speakers. Seldom is Center and Mains going to have the same power requirements at the same moment in time. And rear (surround) speakers are seldom big power users.

I would say with your small room (I have one as well), unless you like having blood coming from your ears, the entry level receiver from any company should have enough power for your needs.