Alnico magnets sound different?

Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
While looking at the Salk web site to remind myself of the Soundscape 8 for a different thread, I looked around a bit more. Everything looked as expected until I read about the Exotica 3 speaker, and read about its use of alnico magnets:

Long the favorite of vintage audiophiles, Alnico magnets work differently than typical ferrous or Neodymium magnets and result in smooth engaging sound.

Other than being weaker than neodymium and allowing the casting of complex shapes, how does alnico "work differently" than neodymium or the more common ferrous slugs used by other drivers?
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I just saw that on their site this morning! I just posted the deal they have on their Intimus line in the deals forum. I'm curious about this myself.

*Edit: Aperion has the deal, not Salk. I was wishful thinking and looking up various manufacturers and got my wires crossed.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I don't see how Alnico would sound different. It seems like an absurd claim.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
While looking at the Salk web site to remind myself of the Soundscape 8 for a different thread, I looked around a bit more. Everything looked as expected until I read about the Exotica 3 speaker, and read about its use alnico magnets:

Long the favorite of vintage audiophiles, Alnico magnets work differently than typical ferrous or Neodymium magnets and result in smooth engaging sound.

Other than being weaker than neodymium and allowing the casting of complex shapes, how does alnico "work differently" than neodymium or the more common ferrous slugs used by other drivers?
BOGUS!
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I don't see how Alnico would sound different. It seems like an absurd claim.
That was basically my conclusion, but the Salk site is rational and includes measurements, so I thought I might be missing some key concept. (I admit that when I studied physics I was studying the young women in the class more than the properties of magnetic fields, so it wouldn't surprise me if I missed something fundamental.)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Such BS...
Seems like it to me too but could be related. I do wonder about the differences different magnetic materials might make other than saving cost or weight (which are the only ones I'd heard before) Maybe @Dennis Murphy can offer some background.
 
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zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Maybe a dog can tell a difference in the sound of magnets.
The marketing game is really getting interesting - in trying to build up sales.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The only performance related difference that different magnets can make that I am aware of is that neodymium does not cool as well as iron or ceramic types and can get into thermal compression easier. That is logical, because it is usually much smaller. That doesn't translate into much of an audible qualitative difference though.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
The only thing I can add is that Alnico became expensive and scarce in the late 1970s. Cobalt, if I remember, was available only from the USSR and South Africa, and with the growing embargo of imports from South Africa, Alnico became too expensive to use. Driver manufacturers largely abandoned it for other magnet materials.

Alnico's lack of availability for years probably made it a thing of desire. Used speakers and guitar amps that had older drivers with Alnico magnets sold for a lot more than they were otherwise worth.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
The only thing I can add is that Alnico became expensive and scarce in the late 1970s. Cobalt, if I remember, was available only from the USSR and South Africa, and with the growing embargo of imports from South Africa, Alnico became too expensive to use. Driver manufacturers largely abandoned it for other magnet materials.

Alnico's lack of availability for years probably made it a thing of desire. Used speakers and guitar amps that had older drivers with Alnico magnets sold for a lot more than they were otherwise worth.
AlNiCo was classified as a 'strategic material' in the '60s, so ceramic magnets were used. The issue of AlNiCo vs ceramic has been the subject of debate regarding speakers for guitar amps since that time and it still hasn't been settled. If a manufacturer had it, they could use it, but new supplies of Cobalt weren't available to them.

They still sell for high prices and as usual, the price depends on the market and economy.

Any audible difference is usually heard when the amplifier is pushed hard and the speakers are at/near their limits.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I've been doing some reading, and my conclusion is that any audible differences, even if they exist, would be swamped by other driver design parameters or manufacturing factors.

This is a great site for information on magnets:

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=magnet-grade
And when an amp is pushed hard, being in the same room can be excruciating- if the purpose is to make a recording, they have the luxury of being more isolated.

I wonder what they would say about field coil magnets, like the one in this-
 

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Dennis Murphy

Audioholic General
Seems like it to me too but could be related. I do wonder about the differences different magnetic materials might make other than saving cost or weight (which are the only ones I'd heard before) Maybe @Dennis Murphy can offer some background.
I can't bring anything to the table regarding magnets. I think Jim Salk's comments were based on conversations he had with Seas representatives when they visited a demo room where the Salk Exotica speakers were playing. They claimed that Alnico contributed to what they felt was the superior sound of the Seas Exotic drivers. I, of course, thought the crossover might also have something to do with the sound......... Maybe Fox News will provide some substantiation shortly.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
And when an amp is pushed hard, being in the same room can be excruciating- if the purpose is to make a recording, they have the luxury of being more isolated.

I wonder what they would say about field coil magnets, like the one in this-
Now Field Coil Drivers are interesting. Those drivers are still manufactured, by the way. Classic Audio Loudspeakers uses a field coil 15" driver in at least one of their speakers. I would love to rip some T/S parameters off of that sucker out of curiosity.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I, of course, thought the crossover might also have something to do with the sound.........
Did you have to adjust the crossover design for the use of Alnico? [big grin]

I've read enough now to know that I asked a silly question in the first post. Thanks to Jim (well, sort of), I now know a lot more than I did before about magnets and magnetism. I often wonder how much smarter I would be if I had actually paid attention in certain university classes.

Nonetheless, as a serious suggestion to Jim, since I'm sure Dennis or Swerd will point him to this thread, I recommend letting the speakers stand on their own merit, and deleting that Alnico nonsense.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Now Field Coil Drivers are interesting. Those drivers are still manufactured, by the way. Classic Audio Loudspeakers uses a field coil 15" driver in at least one of their speakers. I would love to rip some T/S parameters off of that sucker out of curiosity.
When I got that amp, I contacted Ted Weber before he passed and he wrote that his company can still recone them, which is good because, as he mentioned, they used hide glue to assemble the cone and over time, it can become incredibly brittle. That little amp is extremely quiet from a noise standpoint, but it gets up and goes. I have never seen any other amp by that company (Oahu, which sold amps made by companies like Valco, Webster and others) or any other. The others all have an octal socket and plug that allows the speaker wires to be unplugged from the chassis and mine doesn't. That tells me it may have been a prototype or a very early production model, produced before they realized how much of a PITA it is to remove the chassis AND speaker without damaging the cone. As far as I can tell, it's from around 1937, since one of the tubes (6C8G) wasn't available before that year. The rectifier (80) became available in 1927 and the other two (6Q7G and 6L6G) became available in 1936.
 
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