Advice: Onkyo TXSR702 vs Yamaha HTR-5860 vs Yamaha RX-V2500

[ravoors]

Hi, after much searching I have narrowed it down to these three (but I am still an audiophyte so would like feedback)

Onkyo TXSR702 online for about 550$
Yamaha HTR-5860 online for about 450$
Yamaha RX-V2500 online for about 700$ and instore for about 900$

How would you rate these three for functions and value ? I use it mostly for movies and all three seem to have similar video inputs and upconversion features.

Any other good contenders to consider in this range ?

Also, onecall told me that any online vendor selling the RX-V2500 units is probably not authorized by Yamaha since their V series is only for retail centers - is that true ?

Regarding the new RX-V4600, any ideas when it would actually be available and what the real price may be vs the list of approx 1900$

Your time and help is much appreciated.
Regards
--
Suresh

 

[MacManNM]

Hi, after much searching I have narrowed it down to these three (but I am still an audiophyte so would like feedback)

Onkyo TXSR702 online for about 550$
Yamaha HTR-5860 online for about 450$
Yamaha RX-V2500 online for about 700$ and instore for about 900$

How would you rate these three for functions and value ? I use it mostly for movies and all three seem to have similar video inputs and upconversion features.

Any other good contenders to consider in this range ?

Also, onecall told me that any online vendor selling the RX-V2500 units is probably not authorized by Yamaha since their V series is only for retail centers - is that true ?

Regarding the new RX-V4600, any ideas when it would actually be available and what the real price may be vs the list of approx 1900$

Your time and help is much appreciated.
Regards
--
Suresh

The yammie 2500 is clearly the best of this class. One other you might look at is the Marantz 8400. It’s a pretty basic unit that has good power and reasonable control. It is pretty neutral as far as sound goes. It can be had from e-bay for about $600.

 

[BJP]

You will be very happy with the RX-V2500. I currently have the HTR-5760 and am looking to upgrade. Spend the extra $'s and enjoy . Go to www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/dealer.aspx to see Yamaha's authorized dealer's.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Yammy 2500. No contest.

 

[rschleicher]

The RX-V2500 is pretty clearly the top performer of the three you listed, but whether its greater performance is worth the price adder over the other two units, only you can decide.

I have the RX-V750, which is more or less the same internally as the 5760 (predecessor version of the 5860, minus the XM radio capability). I basically picked it because it was the lowest price Yamaha that came with a built in phono pre-amp. (The 5760 doesn't have a phone stage, I don't think, so it is probably more directly comparible to the RX-V650.)

The main competition for me was the Denon 2105, whereas with Onkyo the cheapest phono-stage-equipped model is the 702, which costs more.

I've been very happy with the performance of my receiver, although there is a part of me that regrets not springing for either the 1500 or 2500. In reality I probably don't need the extra power, and the sound quality difference is pretty minimal, I think. But, I do wish I had the full YPAO capability, including the automatic parametric equalization. The lower-price Yammies have a reduced-function version of YPAO, that does speaker size, wiring verification, distance/delay setting, etc., but doesn't do equalization (all you get is a manually-settable graphic equalizer function for the center channel, to let you try and match it better to the timbre of your front speakers).

 

[ravoors]

almost decided - down to two choices now

Thanks for all the insightful responses. My decision is almost made.
Seems like the 2500 is the overwhelming favorite here

I looked closely at the specs for the 2500 and the HTR-5890 on the Yamaha site and seems like the two are pretty similar except for the 2500 having a slight edge as in:
THX Select vs 2 THX modes for 5890
19 surround modes vs 16 for 5890
Main/Zone2 Direct on/off switch on the 2500

The price is 720 or so for the 5890 vs 900 or so for the 2500 if we want the warranty (i.e. retailer only).

Is the additional 200$ worth it for the 2500 - is there a significant diff in the components that go in or build quality, etc ?

Thanks

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Thanks for all the insightful responses. My decision is almost made.
Seems like the 2500 is the overwhelming favorite here

I looked closely at the specs for the 2500 and the HTR-5890 on the Yamaha site and seems like the two are pretty similar except for the 2500 having a slight edge as in:
THX Select vs 2 THX modes for 5890
19 surround modes vs 16 for 5890
Main/Zone2 Direct on/off switch on the 2500

The price is 720 or so for the 5890 vs 900 or so for the 2500 if we want the warranty (i.e. retailer only).

Is the additional 200$ worth it for the 2500 - is there a significant diff in the components that go in or build quality, etc ?

Thanks

I was under the impression the 5890 and 1500 were closer. The 2500 was the top of the line under the two flagships.

 

[Doug917]

I'd try to see if your local reatialer will come down any. I got my 2500 locally for $759. If not, I would go for the 2500 anyways. There are big differences in the quality of parts used in the 2500 and the 5890 or even between the 1500 and 2500 for that matter. The GUI in the 2500 is worth a few extra bucks as well. I always hate when I buy something, then wish I would have put out a few extra buck to get something that was better and I would have been happier with.

 

[sounduser]

Reduced-function version of YPAO for HTR-5860? is it true?

The RX-V2500 is pretty clearly the top performer of the three you listed, but whether its greater performance is worth the price adder over the other two units, only you can decide.

I have the RX-V750, which is more or less the same internally as the 5760 (predecessor version of the 5860, minus the XM radio capability). I basically picked it because it was the lowest price Yamaha that came with a built in phono pre-amp. (The 5760 doesn't have a phone stage, I don't think, so it is probably more directly comparible to the RX-V650.)

The main competition for me was the Denon 2105, whereas with Onkyo the cheapest phono-stage-equipped model is the 702, which costs more.

I've been very happy with the performance of my receiver, although there is a part of me that regrets not springing for either the 1500 or 2500. In reality I probably don't need the extra power, and the sound quality difference is pretty minimal, I think. But, I do wish I had the full YPAO capability, including the automatic parametric equalization. The lower-price Yammies have a reduced-function version of YPAO, that does speaker size, wiring verification, distance/delay setting, etc., but doesn't do equalization (all you get is a manually-settable graphic equalizer function for the center channel, to let you try and match it better to the timbre of your front speakers).

Rschleicher,
I bought a new THR-5860 recently & found the YPAO auto setup equalizing setup does not produce any test tones. So it looks like my receiver has the "reduced-function version of YPAO" like you said. But could you let me know from where you got this info. Does your Manual say so? because my owner's manual does not say so (listed under Other features in the manual "YPAO: YAMAHA Parametric Room Acoustic Optimizer for automatic speaker setup" at page 2 & at page 24 AUTO SETUP under EQUOLIZING: "YPAO equolizing calibration incorporates three parameters for each of the seven bands in its parametric equalizer to provide... automatic adjustment of frequency characteristics." This seems full functional YPAO. I do not understand how YPAO can do all these adjustments without producing any audible test tones. So I thought eigher my receiver has a defect or YAMAHA is not telling the truth at the manual. I emaild my concern to YAMAHA tech support and the answer was "you definitely should hear test tones during EQUALIZING auto setup step." But according to you, my receiver may not have a defect and does not need to be fixed, it just has
"reduced-function version of YPAO", is it true?
Yamaha should say so at the Manual or its ad.

 

[Jim M]

I bought a new THR-5860 recently & found the YPAO auto setup equalizing setup does not produce any test tones.

Your test tones were produced previously when you heard the very short sweeps and the pink noise in the earlier steps of YPAO calibrations. (Where it computes distance and size, for example) The equalize step is only a computation step. No sounds are produced. The processor simply works with what it heard previously.

The YPAO is remarkably functional in the 5860. What is "reduced" is you don't get to choose between "flat", "natural", and "front" as in the higher models in the line. This no big deal considering what a great bargain the 5860 is. Also the higher end models let you actually view the curves and tweak them. Basically, you get to do less tweaking, which is really what having YPAO is all about in the first place.

I've used the 5860 and thought it did a great job. Yamaha told you wrong. If you receive no errors during the optimize, it went just fine.

 

[rschleicher]

Sounduser,

I went back and looked at my RX-V750 manual, to see what it said. In the "Feature Description" (page 2) it is pretty unclear as to whether it is "full YPAO" with parametric equalization, or the "partial YPAO" which doesn't include parametric equalization. In my personal opinion, Yamaha's product brochures, web site, and owners manuals are very misleading on this subject. I will say, however, that other brands, e.g. Denon, also use a couple levels of auto-setup, more or less at the same price points. Whether the other brands are clearer about the differences, I can't say.

In my 750 manual, in the description of auto set-up, it IS a bit clearer that the process does NOT included any parametric equalization. They just talk about speaker wiring verification, phase/distance setting, and level setting. There ARE very definite test tones used to do this. It has been a while since I did it, but from memory the test tones are bursts of pink noise, and/or a series of "thumping" sounds/tones. But, there are no test tones at specific frequency bands. In fact, this is one of my beefs - my 750 DOES have a manually-settable graphic equalizer function for just the center channel, ostensibly intended for timbre-matching to the front left and right speakers. But, there are no test tones available for each of the bands of this graphic equalizer function, to help you in matching levels at each band. All you can do is play around with the graphic equalizer settings while listening to pink noise.

I agree with you that the words you quoted out of your 5860 manual seem to imply the presence of parametric equalization. I was pretty convinced that the older 5760 didn't have this capability, but maybe the newer 5860 does have it. So I tried to download the 5860 manual from Yamaha's web site, at http://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/manuals/PDFs/HTR-5840_5850.pdf

But, either too many people are trying to do this, or else there is a problem with the link, because I couldn't get any of the new model manuals to download.

You might try sending an e-mail to Yamaha customer support (see link on the following page: http://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/reach_us.htm

My experience with them is that their replies to e-mailed questions are fairly informative, even if the manual is vague or ambiguous.

In any case, whether your receiver has parametric equalization or not, there should still be audible test tones during auto-setup. I would also think that scrolling through the available menus under manual set-up will tell you if there is a parametric equalizer function (as distinct from a the center channel manual graphic equalizer, which I assume you have).

 

[sounduser]

Hello Jim,
You are definitely better & more knowlegible than the Yamaha tech support.
Thank you for making me feel more comfortable with my receiver choice.
The following is the emails the tech support send to me for your referece & advise.
(the answers are conflicting with each email)

Hello David:
In response to your emaiL: The HTR-5860 does infact have the
Equalization feature in the YPAO. After testing the HTR-5860 and the
equalization feature of the YPAO, it is normal for the Equalization
feature to NOT make sound. The receiver is processing all of the
information internally and will not output a test tone or any type of
sound during equalization. Thank you! af

6/15/2005 8:44:01 PM >>>
Hello af,
Have you ever heard of "basic YPAO" or "reduced function YPAO" for
lower end models? I found a thread in the AV Forums and someone there
said the following: "I have the RX-V750, same internally as the 5760
(predecessor version of the 5860, minus the XM radio capability)...
I've been very happy with the performance of my receiver, although
there
is a part of me that regrets not springing for either the 1500 or 2500.
In reality I probably don't need the extra power, and the sound quality
difference is pretty minimal, I think. But, I do wish I had the full
YPAO capability, including the automatic parametric equalization. The
lower-price Yammies have a reduced-function version of YPAO, that does
speaker size, wiring verification, distance/delay setting, etc., but
doesn't do equalization (all you get is a manually-settable graphic
equalizer function for the center channel, to let you try and match it
better to the timbre of your front speakers)"
If this is true? Why YAMAHA does not tell this in the manual or in the
ad (I feel cheated)? It looks like not only my receiver have this
question.
Could you please verify one more time & give me a correct answer (so
that I do not have to send in the receiver to fix that cannot be fixed?

Thanks,
David.

YEC Support <YECSupport@yamaha.com> wrote:
Hello David:
In response to your emaiL: When performing the Equalizing of the YPAO
feature, you should definitely hear test tones coming from the
receiver.
If it is within the exchange period of the dealer, I would recommend
returning the receiver back to the dealer for a replacement. Sorry for
the inconvenience! And thank you for your email! af

6/7/2005 9:14:14 PM >>>
Hello af:
Thank you for the quick response.
I did use the full OSD display mode to monitor the whole process steps
on TV screen during YPAO auto setup. I saw the cursor moved from one
step to the next & heard test tones from each of the 8 speakers in
sequence for all the steps except the EQUALIZING step. When I saw the
cursor moved to the EQUALIZING step, the process status bar at bottom
of
the TV screen also showed progress from beginning to end and the
cursor
stayed at the Equalizing step for couple of seconds and then moved to
the next step. The OSD looked normal only no sound was heard during
this
step.
I do not know how to "select the Equalization set (only) and bypass
all
the other YPAO sets" in auto setup mode as you recommended in your
email.
I can only do that at YPAO manual setup mode which let me adjust the
center speaker only with the built in 5-band equalizer and test tones
produced from the front speakers & the center speaker. If this is not
what you meant, please let me know how to "select the Equalization
setup
(only) and bypass all the other YPAO setups" in auto setup mode
because
I cannot find this info in the owner's manual.
Please understand a frustrating customer (I hate to buy another
receiver and hookup everything (& return to the store later) to just
find out if my receiver has a defect, or as worse, to find out the
owner's manual exaggerated the YPAO function for this model.
Thanks,
David.

YEC Support wrote:
Hello David:
In response to your emaiL: Yes, you should hear the test tone being
generated when you go through the Equalization in the YPAO auto setup.

What i would recommend is to get your On Screen Display (osd) feature
setup so that you can see the YPAO features on your TV monitor. Then
select the Equalization set and bypass all the other YPAO sets. Test
it
out to see if you can get the test tone. Thank you! af

6/5/2005 11:38:16 AM >>>
Hello af:
I followed your recommendation and reset the receiver to factory
default & adjusted the volume to -30 dbs and tried the YPAO automatic
setup again but got same results: I can hear very loud & clear test
tones coming from each speaker during WIRING and SIZE/DISTANCE setup
steps but no audible test tones was produced from non of my 7+1
speakers
during the EQUALIZING setup step. Only the processing status bar at
the
bottom of the on screen display was moving for about 2 seconds and
then
it goes to the next step for LEVEL setup (and again I can hear the
test
tones for the LEVEL setup). After all the setup steps done, the RESULT
was shown without ERROR or WARNING.
YAMAHA Owner's Manual page 24 (Auto Setup section) says that the
EQUALIZING step: adjusts frequency and levels of each channel's
parametric equalizer to... This is particularly important if you use
different brands or sizes of speakers... or have a room with unique
sonic characteristics. YPAO can "equalizing calibration incorporates
three parameters... for each of the seven bands in its paraetric
equalizer to provide highly precise automatic adjustment of frequency
characteristics"
I do not think the equalizer can adjust all these without
producing audible test tones.
Please let me know which is not correct or has a problem:
Yamaha owner's manual or my new receiver.
Please help me to make sure before I send this receiver to Yamaha
service center to repair.
THanks,
David.
YEC Support wrote:
Hello David:
In response to your emaiL: When the receiver performs the YPAO
automatic setup, test tones are generated from the receiver. These
test
tones are used to equalize and calibrate the receiver to match your
speakers. Make sure that the volume is set to about -40 to -30 dbs.
Also, if you are still not getting volume during the setup, try
resetting the receiver to factory default settings and test it out
again. The reset procedures are listed on page 90 in the owners
manual.
Thank you! af

Category: A/V Receivers & Stereo Receivers
Message:

I bought a new HTR-5860 receiver recently. Everything works great,
only
one thing I do not know is if the auto equalization function is
working
or not because when I do the auto setup with YPAO microphone, I can
not
hear any test tones from none of my 7 speakers (When I did the manual
setup for equalization for the center speaker tone, I can hear test
tones). Please let me know if my receiver has a problem & how to fix.
If
this is normal (no test tones during auto equalization process for all
your receivers), please educate me how the machine can auto-adjust
each
speaker's tone without audible test tones. Thank you in advance for
your
timely response. Regards, David Peng

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