Advice on Yamaha Receiver Vs Receiver + Amp

[dsheahan]

I am looking to upgrade my 5.1 system to better power my CM8s and CM center as well as get some better video features to support 4k/HDR/HDMI switching, etc. My living room is medium sized and I'm not looking to expand past 5.1 in the near future (just don't have the room layout) and when it comes to receivers I've always like the sound of Yamaha and the longevity of their products. However, I don't know if I want to pay for a bunch of channels I'll never use. I'm currently using a nearly 20 year old Yamaha HTR-5250 that claims 100W/Channel for all channels (back in 500W days) but it's getting pretty far behind the tech curve.

I don't have much experience with modern receivers and none with amps except that I tried to replace my current receiver with a newer one about 3 years ago and was underwhelmed with the power output (it was a yamaha mid-range RX-V). In terms of building a solid 5.1 system, which seems better to folks:

Go with a Yamaha RX-A2050/60 that rates about 140W (2Ch) and call it a day, or step down in power on the receiver itself and use the savings to by a separate amp to run the two mains and let the receiver just power my center and small rears? The external AMP I'm looking at is the Emotiva A-300 with another option being the Outlaw 5000. My budget is around $1500.

Will separating with the A-300 affect the sound-matching of my front stage in a negative way?

 

[j_garcia]

Speakers will matter more to this decision than just deciding you need an amp. So what speakers are we talking about? If you don't need the power, no reason to buy an amp, though more power isn't necessarily a bad thing; just depends on what you're doing with the system.

Once calibrated, it won't matter if you power the mains on a 2 ch amp, but IMO, a 3 ch amp for all three is ideal (used XPA-3). I've done it both ways.

 

[lovinthehd]

OP's got the B&W CM8 and center I assume....but no info on listening levels except he didn't like the RXV in some respect to listening level/distortion/clipping?

 

[dsheahan]

Yes, I am running CM8s for my mains, a CM center, a Martin Logan 700W sub, and some Bose rears. I use it primarily for video games and movies, occasional music and I like it at nicely loud volumes when the wife isn't home, but not ear-splitting. A few years ago I purchased what I think was an RX-V779 and was pretty underwhelmed at the output versus my current, much older receiver. It just felt anemic by comparison.

Given that the RX-A1050 is priced pretty reasonably right now as people make room for 1060s with very little new features, I figured going for that and an amp might be a better package than spending a similar combined amount on a receiver with a bigger internal amp like the 2050/60. As I said, I don't have any experience pairing an external amp or using more modern receivers outside of my experience a few years ago with the RXV that didn't have the discrete channel power of my current receiver.

 

[lovinthehd]

It may not have been the actual amp power that was the issue/difference, either. I've used both avrs with external amps and not. Somewhat depends on the speaker's sensitivity as well as spl levels required. Don't know if another Yamaha will be much different in any case. They have pre-outs so I'd try the new avr alone then decide whether or not I needed power amps (the processor won't have any issue integrating the external amp). A few watts difference isn't much in the range of avrs, usually less than 1-2 dB difference (keep in mind it takes a doubling of power to gain 3dB spl).

ps If you want a even more impressive change than differences in avr amp power, try a better sub.

 

[everettT]

The sub and crossover are likely the issue with system overall. I agree that in upgrade in this area will allow the fronts to shine better. I've never had an issue with the CM or 7 series from B&W except that the bottom end always seemed bloated, like the 6 series midrange.

It may not have been the actual amp power that was the issue/difference, either. I've used both avrs with external amps and not. Somewhat depends on the speaker's sensitivity as well as spl levels required. Don't know if another Yamaha will be much different in any case. They have pre-outs so I'd try the new avr alone then decide whether or not I needed power amps (the processor won't have any issue integrating the external amp). A few watts difference isn't much in the range of avrs, usually less than 1-2 dB difference (keep in mind it takes a doubling of power to gain 3dB spl).

ps If you want a even more impressive change than differences in avr amp power, try a better sub.

 

[dsheahan]

Do you recommend what seems to be the normal crossover recommendation of 80Hz? I can't say I'm sure I set that when I tried the previous new receiver.

As for the subwoofer, do you have any particular recommendations? I've been pretty happy with that subs general performance, it gives me plenty of bass and I don't feel like it distorts on me at levels I want it to run at. I'm also not really looking to run a dual-sub setup or spend a lot of money replacing that aspect at the moment as it works well in my current setup. The problem more was applying my existing speaker setup (which I'm generally happy with) to a new AVR that didn't have as much discrete power-per-channel.

 

[everettT]

I'd probably go with 110hz as opposed to 80, the is a hump in the response around there and you probably want to take care of it. The power per channel isn't as meaningful as the overall response of the speakers. Min impedence and phase angle is more problematic for that speaker between 80 and 1000hz. As John mentioned additional power relative to your current setup may help and with the issues I mentioned would help, however a higher crossover and a better sub will do the same with more audible benefit than more power from an amp.

Do you recommend what seems to be the normal crossover recommendation of 80Hz? I can't say I'm sure I set that when I tried the previous new receiver.

As for the subwoofer, do you have any particular recommendations? I've been pretty happy with that subs general performance, it gives me plenty of bass and I don't feel like it distorts on me at levels I want it to run at. I'm also not really looking to run a dual-sub setup or spend a lot of money replacing that aspect at the moment as it works well in my current setup. The problem more was applying my existing speaker setup (which I'm generally happy with) to a new AVR that didn't have as much discrete power-per-channel.

 

[j_garcia]

Sorry, missed the speakers in the FIRST SENTENCE lol. I was reading the body and glossed over the details.

the EQ on mine bumped my x-over up to 100hz. 80 is usually a good starting point, but if you have to use 100 or 110 to get a smoother blend (of course sub has to handle that too) then so be it. That means less need for an amp too, because you aren't pumping as much power to those speakers.