Advice On Rec. for New Set Up

[NoAppRsn]

Hello to all. I'm new here and Def new to higher end home AV. I have a question about a reciever that I hope some one can shed some light on.
To give the basics, I've got a Panasonic TH-58PZ850U Plasma television and I'm getting ready to hook up my sound system. I've purchased a pair of Klipsch VF-36 Floorstanders for the front channels, A pair of Klipsch VB-15 bookshelf speakers for the rear channels, A Klipsch Sub-10 and a Klipsch VC-25 center channel. The main use for this is gonna be movie watching (DVD/BRD)

The issue I'm having is with my reciever. I was all set and ready to get a Yamaha RX-V663BL (Mostly on the Advice of my girlfriend who works in a Best Buy Home Theatre Department) since I was gonna get a ridiculous deal on it. However, I'm having doubt about what some people are telling me. Now I'm debating between the 663 and a Yamaha RX-V863BL. Now, the only REAL difference in performance that I can discern (excluding things like inputs jack numbers and the like) is the overall wattage (95W vs. 140W) and the Watts per channel (3 front & 4 Rear @95 vs. the same number at 140 or 105 depending on whther you look at Best Buy's website or Yamaha's) Still can't figure out the reason for that being different.

In any case, I guess my quiestion is.....which one to get. It's a difference to me of about $100 which isn't a lot, but I'm kinda trying to figure out, is skimping on that $100 gonna tick me off with the way this all sounds, or is the lower Rec. not gonna be enough for those speakers? I'd rather pay for the better one if I need it and save the money if the better model is too much overkill. Some people say I need to the better one, some say it's not gonn amake an audible difference, some say 140 is way better than 95 (I'm not sure they even know about the 105 spec on the Yamaha website) I don't know, I'm a total neophyte with this stuff so any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

I tried to include links to everything but I don't have a high enough post count since I'm new. Sorry.

 

[jamie2112]

If you only have to pay $100 more for the 863 I would consider it a no brainer. I myself would go for the 863 for sure. Better unit more options and higher power, Thats what I would do anyway. Best of luck to you....

 

[Pyrrho]

Here is a link to a chart with some differences between them:

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/compare/Detail.html?compitem1=&compitem2=567570&compitem3=567571&CTID=5000300&VNM=LIVE&B_compare.x=31&B_compare.y=10&comp_items=567570&comp_items=567571

There is more different than just the output power and the number of inputs. For example, the RX-V863 has an HD radio tuner and can do video up-conversion.

You might also want to download the manuals and read them; you will have to register with Yamaha to do this, but it is free.

The different stories you hear about the output power for each is a result of the fact that an amplifier can be measured in more than one way. One should look at continuous RMS output into a specific impedance at a specific amount of distortion over specific frequencies. Changing the impedance one is considering, or the level of distortion, or the frequencies, will enable one to have different numbers claimed. So, one amplifier can be said to put out different numbers of watts, depending upon those variables (not to mention "peak" power output). And this also means that when comparing two amplifiers, all of those must be the same, or nearly the same, to be a fair comparison.

As for the specific models in question, the amount of power difference is fairly insignificant. The RX-V863 is rated at 105 watts RMS from 20 Hz to 20 kHz @ 0.06% THD @ 8 Ω, and the RX-V663 is rated at 95 watts RMS from 20 Hz to 20 kHz @ 0.06% THD @ 8 Ω. Since everything else is the same, we can directly compare the number of watts claimed here. Assuming that they are accurately rated, this difference will probably never even be noticed. The reason for this is because in order to get just a 3 dB increase in volume, one must double the power. So, a difference of 10 watts, if we were talking about a 10 watt and a 20 watt amplifier, would be 3 dB. But to get that same 3 dB increase over 95 watts would require 190 watts. 10 watts at the level of power you are dealing with is trivial. If power is the only issue, you should probably go with the RX-V663. But for a $100 difference, I would go with the RX-V863 for its added features, such as HD radio and an extra HDMI input. It also does video up-conversion, though I do not know if it does it well enough to matter. (With video up-conversion, this can be done in a source unit, the receiver, a separate video processor, or one's HDTV; it does not matter which one does it, but you want it done well [if you watch any non-HD sources on an HDTV], and not all up-converters are equal.) You will want to read each manual if you want to find all of the differences between them.

As for your girlfriend's advice, she is pointing out the least expensive model in Yamaha's lineup that decodes the new audio formats on Blu-Ray (though they have newer models now on their web site). If you don't need the extra features of the RX-V863, she is giving you excellent advice. If you do need them, then when getting advice from her, you should tell her more about what it is that you need. If all you told her was that you want a new surround receiver, and expressed nothing more, her advice is exactly what I would have told you to get. The RX-V663 is a great receiver for the money. If you were paying retail, I think the price difference would be such that the RX-V863 is not nearly as good of a value, as there is a $450 retail price difference between them. It isn't that much better, in my opinion.

 

[NoAppRsn]

Ok, I think I followed most of that, thank you. I'm not exactly sure about the comparison of the 3db increase and how it plays in but I generally follow what you're talking about. One way or another, more power in this case seems to be a bit better.

The added features in the units are honestly irrelevant to me, but as most have said, for only a 100-150 increase, might as well for with the higher model. In regards to price, yeah.....basically I'm gonna be getting the 663 for about $315 or the 863 for $420.

I think my girlfriend was basically kinda following my leanings towards how I purchase things. I think she knows I typically will spend the money on something good and solid that does the job I need it to well, but I don't like overspending on ridiculous features or abilities that will never come into play.

That being the case and taking in everythign you've said I'm pretty sure I'm just gonna go for the 863, in that I'd like to ask one more basic quiestion......
Will the 863 be enough, power wise, overall and per channel wattage wise, etc, simply be enough to drive the speaker setup I bought, or am I pushing the limit on it?

 

[Davemcc]

Will the 863 be enough, power wise, overall and per channel wattage wise, etc, simply be enough to drive the speaker setup I bought, or am I pushing the limit on it?

Look at the sensitivity of those speakers...97.5dB and 8 ohms. That means at one watt and one meter (unless they measured the other way, 2.83V at 1m), those speakers will output 97.5dB of sound. At two watts, you will be over 100dB. Your ears will stop you before you ever exceed the amps capabilities with those speakers. Most of your listening will probably not exceed one watt.

But still, for an extra hundred bucks, that's a bargain.

 

[Alex2507]

Look at the sensitivity of those speakers...97.5dB and 8 ohms. That means at one watt and one meter (unless they measured the other way, 2.83V at 1m), those speakers will output 97.5dB of sound. At two watts, you will be over 100dB. Your ears will stop you before you ever exceed the amps capabilities with those speakers. Most of your listening will probably not exceed one watt.

But still, for an extra hundred bucks, that's a bargain.

That's all true if you're up real close and I think it's at a certain frequency. Once you go lower in the frequency range and get on the proper side of the coffee table ...

I don't believe what Yamaha says about their wattage out puts to begin with but one thing I do believe in is the dollar amounts. The 863 is suppose to be like $400 dollars more than the 663 so not getting the 863 would be a shame. If the price is so great, get both and sell one to me. I don't care which.

 

[NoAppRsn]

Ha Ha, Awesome. If I could get both and sell you one I honestly would. I get them through Yamaha through this accomadation they offer to employees of retail outlets that sell there products. You know, it's kinda like "We want these kids selling our stuff to be able to say 'Yeah I got that and it rocks' to customers but they also know 17 year old kids probably can't afford it on the $8 an hour they make, even if they bought it and got an employee discount through their store. So they offer them directly through themselves but they limit us to what's cosidered "1 Complete home theatre system" per year....and since you only need one reciever.....

It's a good deal though, I managed to get the entire set of Klipsch Speakers I mentioned through them directly for only $886 too, all six pieces.

I did order the 863 last night. Guess that's what I was looking for, someone to just basically confirm for me it's gonna do the job I needed and not be doing it at the limit of it's capabilities.

Thanks everyone for the great replies, I never learned much about Home Audio since when I was younger and it was becoming prevelant it was something I never thought I could afford (1980's every speaker was gigantic and cost a fortune) but I learned quite a bit I think about how this works. Thanks again.

 

[Pyrrho]

Ok, I think I followed most of that, thank you. I'm not exactly sure about the comparison of the 3db increase and how it plays in but I generally follow what you're talking about. One way or another, more power in this case seems to be a bit better.

The added features in the units are honestly irrelevant to me, but as most have said, for only a 100-150 increase, might as well for with the higher model. In regards to price, yeah.....basically I'm gonna be getting the 663 for about $315 or the 863 for $420.

I think my girlfriend was basically kinda following my leanings towards how I purchase things. I think she knows I typically will spend the money on something good and solid that does the job I need it to well, but I don't like overspending on ridiculous features or abilities that will never come into play.

That being the case and taking in everythign you've said I'm pretty sure I'm just gonna go for the 863, in that I'd like to ask one more basic quiestion......
Will the 863 be enough, power wise, overall and per channel wattage wise, etc, simply be enough to drive the speaker setup I bought, or am I pushing the limit on it?

No, you don't seem to have followed what I said. The more power in this case is totally insignificant if Yamaha is accurately rating them.

Assuming that your speakers are properly rated, as long as you are not wanting literally deafening sound levels, you should have enough power with either receiver.

If you don't want the extra features of the RX-V863, the RX-V663 is a better buy and your girlfriend gave you excellent advice. It is a very well made unit.