Advice needed: Will upgrading a receiver give better results than a speaker upgrade?

[kellyk75]

Hi, I did search the topic but it is a difficult search due to the common terminology.

I am in a dilema and could use some advice. I am looking to improve my home theater (bang for the buck), and need to understand the true gains and advantages of upgrading from Digital Optical hookup for blu-rays and HD television to HDMI. My current receiver doesn't have HDMI input, so all devices are hooked up via Optical cables, with HDMI straight to the TV.

My question is, will upgrading the receiver first for HDMI for HD-DTS, and Lossless audio a better first step than starting to audition some new speakers. The speakers I have I do like, but could use something a bit "brighter".

I am looking at either the Yamaha RX-V773, RXV-1073 or RXA series which I don't know much about, and could use some Recevier advise as well.

Thanks in advance for any reccomendations.

EDIT: I mostly use the system for Movies and Television, rarely for music as it's a basement system. Further attractive features of Receiver Upgrade: Dialogue Lift/Level for the wife who doesn't like loud effects.

 

[j_garcia]

Speakers make the biggest difference in a system period. If your system isn't struggling for power now, then a new receiver isn't going to give you massive gains. Though the new lossless audio formats are an improvement IMO, they aren't going to transform the system. "Brightness" can be added with a little tone control adjustment, though I normally don't recommend that. The Athenas were decent speakers and I actually like them, but I think you'll get more bang for your buck improvement replacing at least the front 3.

 

[Mad Norseman]

I would recommend Yamaha's AVENTAGE line of AVRs, probably the RX-A820, or RX-A1020, (as these have pre-outs for later amplifier upgrades).
This would bring you up to date with all the audio codecs, and HDMI connections as well. The AVENTAGE line has excellent sound quality too (you WILL notice an improvement!). Once done, later go for upgrading the speakers, then add a (separate) external power amplfier(s) connected via RCA cables. Sounds good!

 

[kellyk75]

Thanks to you both for your reply's, great information. I am particular about sound, and right now what bothers me most about the sound is while watching movies, in scenes with lots of effects, there seems to be sounds that seem to be lessened (or not there at all). Example would be a shooting car chase where you can hear the sound of the car / speach, but at times the gunfire and debris bouncing off the car is either quiet or borderline non-existant. This is only one example, and seems to effect spacial placement and volume. The less the effects, the better the sound quality. Also, main speach can be hard to hear at times, while the environmental effects (eg. crowds) are quite loud.

J_Garcia, would you still suggest tackling the speakers first? I am weary of breaking up the system and doing the fronts first (can't afford full 5.0 system yet due to newborn) to avoid timbre matching issues. So, if it were you would you wait and save for speakers, or do the Receiver now?

Norseman, are the pre-outs the main advantage of the RX-A series? Would there be a sound quality improvement from RX-V to RX-A series, or did you just mean over my existing Receiver? There seems to be a 7.2 pre-out connection in the RX-V series, but I might be wrong.

Also forgot to mention that I have the speakers for a 7.1 system which I will be hooking up when we re-paint the room and I can run the wiring.

Thanks again.

 

[Pyrrho]

Thanks to you both for your reply's, great information. I am particular about sound, and right now what bothers me most about the sound is while watching movies, in scenes with lots of effects, there seems to be sounds that seem to be lessened (or not there at all). Example would be a shooting car chase where you can hear the sound of the car / speach, but at times the gunfire and debris bouncing off the car is either quiet or borderline non-existant. This is only one example, and seems to effect spacial placement and volume. The less the effects, the better the sound quality. Also, main speach can be hard to hear at times, while the environmental effects (eg. crowds) are quite loud.

J_Garcia, would you still suggest tackling the speakers first? I am weary of breaking up the system and doing the fronts first (can't afford full 5.0 system yet due to newborn) to avoid timbre matching issues. So, if it were you would you wait and save for speakers, or do the Receiver now?

Norseman, are the pre-outs the main advantage of the RX-A series? Would there be a sound quality improvement from RX-V to RX-A series, or did you just mean over my existing Receiver? There seems to be a 7.2 pre-out connection in the RX-V series, but I might be wrong.

Also forgot to mention that I have the speakers for a 7.1 system which I will be hooking up when we re-paint the room and I can run the wiring.

Thanks again.

Given your issues, you might want to rerun YPAO on your receiver to make sure the levels and such are all correct. If the channel balance is off, then you might not hear things properly. While you are at it, you might want to double-check all of your speaker wire connections for phase and making good contact. Do this before buying anything.

 

[j_garcia]

Given your issues, you might want to rerun YPAO on your receiver to make sure the levels and such are all correct. If the channel balance is off, then you might not hear things properly. While you are at it, you might want to double-check all of your speaker wire connections for phase and making good contact. Do this before buying anything.

Agreed - what you described does not sound like a speaker issue unless there is a damaged speaker or possibly one wired out of phase somewhere in the system. The best way to do this is to actually disconnect and reconnect the speakers, not just just a visual inspection. This will also often uncover something as simple as loose connections. I wouldn't spend money on anything until you've done this first.

It is also possible it is a "night mode" aka; a peak level compression setting to maintain a softer level during big peaks at night that you have turned on that might cause this, but that shouldn't drop sounds out completely.

J_Garcia, would you still suggest tackling the speakers first? I am weary of breaking up the system and doing the fronts first (can't afford full 5.0 system yet due to newborn) to avoid timbre matching issues. So, if it were you would you wait and save for speakers, or do the Receiver now?

That's why I mentioned the front 3, since they are the most important to timbre match since they handle the vast majority of the sound. Matched surrounds is a benefit IMO, but they are far less critical.

Norseman, are the pre-outs the main advantage of the RX-A series? Would there be a sound quality improvement from RX-V to RX-A series, or did you just mean over my existing Receiver? There seems to be a 7.2 pre-out connection in the RX-V series, but I might be wrong.

It will depend on the specific model, but yes I do believe some of the RX models also have pre-outs.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... Example would be a shooting car chase where you can hear the sound of the car / speach, but at times the gunfire and debris bouncing off the car is either quiet or borderline non-existant. This is only one example, and seems to effect spacial placement and volume. The less the effects, the better the sound quality. Also, main speach can be hard to hear at times, while the environmental effects (eg. crowds) are quite loud.

...
Thanks again.

Since this seems to be an issue at times, I would think it is not an issue at other times. So, I would suggest that give consideration to the recording and mastering quality of the movie as certainly not all movies created equally well, especially in the effects area. Some just cut bass of below 25Hz-30Hz, very obvious on some sound graphs, some are aggressive in the surround tracks while others are barely audible. Same apply to the dialogue.

 

[twylight]

as the owner of about 2 dozen recievers the answer is no....upgrading the receiver does very little.

I like HDMI and room correction - but other than that they are all similar to some extent (in a price range)

Speaker placement and acoustics + new internet direct speakers are the best upgrade path.

 

[kellyk75]

Since this seems to be an issue at times, I would think it is not an issue at other times. So, I would suggest that give consideration to the recording and mastering quality of the movie as certainly not all movies created equally well, especially in the effects area. Some just cut bass of below 25Hz-30Hz, very obvious on some sound graphs, some are aggressive in the surround tracks while others are barely audible. Same apply to the dialogue.

And that is heavily what I suspect on many movies. Like I mentioned, I am very picky and most people don't notice it and are impressed with the sound. I don't believe that it is a set-up issue as I noticed it in both the old and new house (moved recently) but was holding off an upgrade. I recently picked up Dredd which I have read reviews on how perfect the sound engineering is...... once the wife and baby are out of the house, I will give it a test drive.

Moving up to an HDMI capable receiver has other benefits for me as well (hooking up the tablet), but am now leaning twards leaving it as is right now and upgrading the whole system in the future. The dialogue lift would be nice for the wife...... guess I will have to give it more thought.

Thank you all again for your advice. Although not clear on what my path will be, it will be a much more informed decision.