Advice needed: loud pop in rear surround speakers from Marantz SR5014

C

crossbytje

Audiophyte
Hi,

I have a strange problem in my setup and I haven't been able to isolate the troublemaker.
History: I have a set of active main speakers (B&O Beolab 9) that are fed a signal from my Marantz SR5014 AVR. I connected these on the pre-out of the AVR. I had an older Bose center and surround speaker set from my parents which I hooked up to the AVR. I changed my living room layout and had the surround speakers put further back in the room. I was using a thick speaker cable of almost 25m for the SR speaker, about 15m for the SL speaker in a 5.0 setup. All was well with this setup.
Everything was powered off for a while since the redecorating team plastered my walls and hid that cable inside. (I could make it a little shorter now, not having it to go up and down to reach speakers. I'm pretty sure the cables themselves were not damaged during this proces.
I added a set of speakers in the middle of the room and now have a 7.0 setup. So the 'middle' speakers are assigned to the SL/SR channels, the previous surround speakers are now SBL/SBR.

Ever since, the speakers in the back have a loud pop when powering up the Marantz. It goes in 3 stages, first a click, 4 sec later another click, and again 4 sec later a final click. With this final click, my rear speakers pop. However, this only happens it the system was powered down for several hours. Even more so, the pop is louder if the system was powered down longer: really noticeable after a couple of hours, really loud after a whole day. If I power up after just a few minutes of down time, everything remains perfectly silent.

I wonder what could cause this behaviour? Any ideas on this? (For what I've read in other threads, pops and crackles occur randomly, which is not the case here.)

Now I tried swapping the SB channels with the SBL channels, so having the popping speakers connected to the AVR outputs where they previously did not have a pop, and they also pop there now.
Also, if I disconnect the newly added speakers and only keep the 5.0 setup as before (connected to the SL/SR channels), the speakers also pop.
This is strange because the only change in this setup with my old-old setup was the speaker cable which has been plastered into my walls.
Moreover, if I disconnect only one speaker, the other will still pop. It would be highly unlikely that both cables would be damaged in the process. I was here when it happened, and I'm fairly confident that the cables are still intact.

I also tried connecting the middle speakers to the 'bad'(?) cables and these remain absolutely silent even after a whole day of downtime. I wonder, if the cables are bad, shouldn't all speakers then pop using those cables?

It seems that the combination of those speakers and those cables cause a problem? But this is a weird conclusion in my mind.

Do any of you have any suggestions?
Thanks a lot!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hi,

I have a strange problem in my setup and I haven't been able to isolate the troublemaker.
History: I have a set of active main speakers (B&O Beolab 9) that are fed a signal from my Marantz SR5014 AVR. I connected these on the pre-out of the AVR. I had an older Bose center and surround speaker set from my parents which I hooked up to the AVR. I changed my living room layout and had the surround speakers put further back in the room. I was using a thick speaker cable of almost 25m for the SR speaker, about 15m for the SL speaker in a 5.0 setup. All was well with this setup.
Everything was powered off for a while since the redecorating team plastered my walls and hid that cable inside. (I could make it a little shorter now, not having it to go up and down to reach speakers. I'm pretty sure the cables themselves were not damaged during this proces.
I added a set of speakers in the middle of the room and now have a 7.0 setup. So the 'middle' speakers are assigned to the SL/SR channels, the previous surround speakers are now SBL/SBR.

Ever since, the speakers in the back have a loud pop when powering up the Marantz. It goes in 3 stages, first a click, 4 sec later another click, and again 4 sec later a final click. With this final click, my rear speakers pop. However, this only happens it the system was powered down for several hours. Even more so, the pop is louder if the system was powered down longer: really noticeable after a couple of hours, really loud after a whole day. If I power up after just a few minutes of down time, everything remains perfectly silent.

I wonder what could cause this behaviour? Any ideas on this? (For what I've read in other threads, pops and crackles occur randomly, which is not the case here.)

Now I tried swapping the SB channels with the SBL channels, so having the popping speakers connected to the AVR outputs where they previously did not have a pop, and they also pop there now.
Also, if I disconnect the newly added speakers and only keep the 5.0 setup as before (connected to the SL/SR channels), the speakers also pop.
This is strange because the only change in this setup with my old-old setup was the speaker cable which has been plastered into my walls.
Moreover, if I disconnect only one speaker, the other will still pop. It would be highly unlikely that both cables would be damaged in the process. I was here when it happened, and I'm fairly confident that the cables are still intact.

I also tried connecting the middle speakers to the 'bad'(?) cables and these remain absolutely silent even after a whole day of downtime. I wonder, if the cables are bad, shouldn't all speakers then pop using those cables?

It seems that the combination of those speakers and those cables cause a problem? But this is a weird conclusion in my mind.

Do any of you have any suggestions?
Thanks a lot!
It is clear that you have proved the suspected new cables are not the cause but I am no clear if you have proved the "pop" follows the receiver's SL and SR channels. It it does, that is, pops only when a speaker is connected to the SL and SR channels, then the issue is with the receiver. Still it is hard to imagine why both channels would fail in the same way. So again, even if the SL/SR channels are causing the pop, I would suggest you do a factory reset first and see what happens.
 
C

crossbytje

Audiophyte
It is strange, if connected to the SBL/SBR channels, they also pop. I haven't tried to swap with the front speakers, I could give that a try too. A bit reluctant to do a factory reset, since there are a lot of settings that will be lost, but it's worth a try. I'll report back.

What is generally the cause for such pops, growing louder the longer the unit is powered down?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
It is strange, if connected to the SBL/SBR channels, they also pop. I haven't tried to swap with the front speakers, I could give that a try too. A bit reluctant to do a factory reset, since there are a lot of settings that will be lost, but it's worth a try. I'll report back.

What is generally the cause for such pops, growing louder the longer the unit is powered down?
Do you think you have done enough to eliminate the possibility that it was the speakers or the speaker cables? How about use one speaker that does not pop where it is connected to now, unplugged it (banana plug I hope) and plug it to the SR, SL, using the same speaker cable, or any channel that did the pop? That would be a quick test.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Hi,

I have a strange problem in my setup and I haven't been able to isolate the troublemaker.
History: I have a set of active main speakers (B&O Beolab 9) that are fed a signal from my Marantz SR5014 AVR. I connected these on the pre-out of the AVR. I had an older Bose center and surround speaker set from my parents which I hooked up to the AVR. I changed my living room layout and had the surround speakers put further back in the room. I was using a thick speaker cable of almost 25m for the SR speaker, about 15m for the SL speaker in a 5.0 setup. All was well with this setup.
Everything was powered off for a while since the redecorating team plastered my walls and hid that cable inside. (I could make it a little shorter now, not having it to go up and down to reach speakers. I'm pretty sure the cables themselves were not damaged during this proces.
I added a set of speakers in the middle of the room and now have a 7.0 setup. So the 'middle' speakers are assigned to the SL/SR channels, the previous surround speakers are now SBL/SBR.

Ever since, the speakers in the back have a loud pop when powering up the Marantz. It goes in 3 stages, first a click, 4 sec later another click, and again 4 sec later a final click. With this final click, my rear speakers pop. However, this only happens it the system was powered down for several hours. Even more so, the pop is louder if the system was powered down longer: really noticeable after a couple of hours, really loud after a whole day. If I power up after just a few minutes of down time, everything remains perfectly silent.

I wonder what could cause this behaviour? Any ideas on this? (For what I've read in other threads, pops and crackles occur randomly, which is not the case here.)

Now I tried swapping the SB channels with the SBL channels, so having the popping speakers connected to the AVR outputs where they previously did not have a pop, and they also pop there now.
Also, if I disconnect the newly added speakers and only keep the 5.0 setup as before (connected to the SL/SR channels), the speakers also pop.
This is strange because the only change in this setup with my old-old setup was the speaker cable which has been plastered into my walls.
Moreover, if I disconnect only one speaker, the other will still pop. It would be highly unlikely that both cables would be damaged in the process. I was here when it happened, and I'm fairly confident that the cables are still intact.

I also tried connecting the middle speakers to the 'bad'(?) cables and these remain absolutely silent even after a whole day of downtime. I wonder, if the cables are bad, shouldn't all speakers then pop using those cables?

It seems that the combination of those speakers and those cables cause a problem? But this is a weird conclusion in my mind.

Do any of you have any suggestions?
Thanks a lot!
What are the exact Bose speakers you are using? You can usually do no wrong putting anything Bose at the top of the suspect list when there is any type of problem. There gear is just awful and frequently deviate from usual and acceptable standards in many ways.
 
C

crossbytje

Audiophyte
Well, there's a delay between each test of several hours, and the cables are all fixed inside the walls so swapping speakers with different wall mountings requires some improvised constructs.
But I've tried many things over the last couple of weeks.

The wanted setup is 'speaker set A' with 'cable X' as SBL/SBR and 'speaker set B' with 'cable Y' as SL/SR. (Size/mounting options are difficult the other way around.) Fronts are connected through the pre-out, center is fixed. There is no sub as the active fronts are full range.
In this scenario, speaker set A pops. (Only after several hours of downtime.)

If I simply switch the connections on the back of the AVR, so 'speaker set A' with 'cable X' to the SL/SR channels, and 'speaker set B' with 'cable Y' to the SBL/SBR channels, the speaker set A also pops.
This suggests the problem is not with the particular channels inside the AVR.

I tried many different combinations.
Long story short: my speaker set A is the only one that pops, but only when connected using cables X, regardless of the channel they are connected to.
If I connect those speakers with different cables, they don't pop.
This suggests the problem is not within the speakers?
If I connect other speakers to those cables, those also don't pop.
This suggests the problem is not with the cables?

I'm a bit confused by this. I would be inclined to think the problem is with the speakers then, but they would both have to have gone bad at the same moment. This is also not consistent with the time factor (louder pop after longer downtime).

I'll redo some of my testing, but each time, I have to wait half a day. I'll start with a setup using only the 'bad' speakers with other cabling, and wait long enough to make sure those don't pop.

In your experience, what is typically the cause of such pops that grow louder the longer the AVR is powered down?
 
C

crossbytje

Audiophyte
What are the exact Bose speakers you are using? You can usually do no wrong putting anything Bose at the top of the suspect list when there is any type of problem. There gear is just awful and frequently deviate from usual and acceptable standards in many ways.
The ones that pop are Bose 161 speakers. I have another old set of cubes (that came in an acoustimass series II set).
Up until the change towards a 7.0 setup, I had no problem with the 161 set, even using those long thick cables that are now inside my walls.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
The ones that pop are Bose 161 speakers. I have another old set of cubes (that came in an acoustimass series II set).
Up until the change towards a 7.0 setup, I had no problem with the 161 set, even using those long thick cables that are now inside my walls.
I suspect those miserable Bose speakers, they have a couple of tiny 2.5" speakers in each. Now Bose tell you nothing. But I have come across their miserable small speakers before. The usual Bose practice in this type of speaker is to put a capacitor in series with the drivers to limit the bass getting to them.

Now amps and receivers have periods of DC offset. To help protect speakers receivers have a speaker cut out on time delay to prevent turn on thumps from the initial turn on DC offset. Now what I suspect is happening is that after you turn off your receiver there is a transient DC leak that is charging that cap, and that when the speaker relay closes on the next turn on that charge is somehow being released.

So you need to try some normal sized speakers that have their drivers connected to the receiver without a cap. I have a feeling those speakers will not pop.
Remember it is always a good day to out Bose.
 
C

crossbytje

Audiophyte
The 'speaker set B' I'm using is a set of bose cubes I inherited. Those don't have a capacitor and don't pop.

Those 161 speakers (my 'set A'), when connected with other cables also don't pop. After 10h of downtime, there was an ever so silent popping sound noticeable when I had my ears right next to them. Could it be that the resistance in those cables 'consumes' that current then, while the long thicker cables don't?

In any case, my AVR would still be leaking right? Something which it is not supposed to do?
Moreover, before the renovations, I had those miserable speakers connected with those similar cables too (although these cables were each 5-6m longer then) and never heard them popping.
So the AVR might suddenly have started to leak?
(It is still under warranty, and I had it die on me before (as in completely dead, not doing anything anymore). It was repaired by the manufacturer (power supply replaced) and all my settings were still in place.)
 
C

crossbytje

Audiophyte
Is there a way to detect that leak? I have a multimeter lying around.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Is there a way to detect that leak? I have a multimeter lying around.
No, it is not that simple.

I suspect the leakage is actually normal. It is not unusual for amps to discharge though the direct coupled power transistors.

There is also another issue. That cap in the Bose speakers is giving your receiver a reactive load. A lot of amps do not like this. So these speakers may be damaging to your receiver.

Just rid yourself of Bose. The basic cause of this is very crude Bose engineering. For them that is situation normal. That literally is one company you absolutely need to avoid having anything in your home that has the word Bose anywhere. There are few cast iron rules, but that is one.
 
C

crossbytje

Audiophyte
Right, I took matters in my own hands and gutted the 161s. I removed the capacitors (in fact the whole electronic board) and soldered direct connections to the drivers. They don't sound much different, so I didn't kill them completely :cool:. I'm optimistically looking forward to tomorrow.

I'm still wondering though, why they didn't pop before, same AVR/amp, same cables (just a little longer), same speakers.

In any case, thanks for the help and suggestions!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Right, I took matters in my own hands and gutted the 161s. I removed the capacitors (in fact the whole electronic board) and soldered direct connections to the drivers. They don't sound much different, so I didn't kill them completely :cool:. I'm optimistically looking forward to tomorrow.

I'm still wondering though, why they didn't pop before, same AVR/amp, same cables (just a little longer), same speakers.

In any case, thanks for the help and suggestions!
I would put the cap back and bypass it with a 200 Ohm resistor. If you drive those 2.5" drivers full range you likely won't have them long. The bypass resistor will allow the cap to slowly and safely discharge through the driver and be neutral on SQ.
 
C

crossbytje

Audiophyte
Is the crossover setting in the AVR not sufficient? I recalibrated the audyssey mappings and crossover for those speakers is set at 150Hz.

I just powered them up this morning and they were completely silent.
 

newsletter
  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top