Advice for small (but open) room

[clyde312]

Hello all -

Rather new to this forum, a novice as it relates to home theater setups and looking for some advice. I recently moved into a new place and have finally finished with most construction projects and it's time to put a music system back in place - probably an even spit between movie and music use. My room is 10' wide by 15' deep and 8' ceilings. There is a half wall at the back which opens up to a stairwell and on one of the 15' walls there is an 8' opening that leads to the kitchen.

The room is wired for four speakers in the ceiling - I know this is not ideal for home theater, but at this point I cannot rewire. I would have the option to mount speakers on the ceiling or place in-ceiling speakers. The other challenge I'm dealing with is that I do not have a good spot for a center channel. I could place something under the TV but would be restricted to about 4" in height. The other option would be to use a bookshelf placed a bit off center - also not ideal.

While i have not made any firm decisions yet, I have been looking at the Denon X3300W receiver and SVS SB-1000 sub. Looking not to go over $2k all in, so if I go with these two components I would be left with about $800 for speakers.

For the fronts and surrounds, would I be better off mounting speakers on the ceiling or flush mount in-ceiling? And any recommendations for good speakers to use here?

Next - would I be better off not using a center channel at all if it has to be placed somewhat off-center?

Finally, knowing that ceiling mounted fronts are not ideal, do I skip the surrounds for now and get higher quality fronts to compensate?

Appreciate any suggestions.

 

[Wisco_HiFi]

Where are the 4 speakers located?


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[clyde312]

The fronts are 12" away from each side wall and are 18" away from the wall behind. The rears are also 12" from each side wall and are right above the rear half wall - so about 12" behind the main seating position.

 

[shadyJ]

I wouldn't spend much. Ceiling speakers are pretty atrocious. Until you get away from ceiling speakers, there is no point in spending a lot on other components. They will determine nearly the entire character of the sound from your system, and it just won't be very good.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I'd plug the holes in the ceiling and try to go more conventionally. Just cause it's wired that way, doesn't mean you have to use it that way. It's kind of insulting actually when builders do that. "Maybe" ceiling surrounds if there's no walls to mount them on. Can you raise the tv with a riser or something to get clearance for a CC? I wouldn't use a center off to the side. I would hold out for at least an sb2000, but a pb2000 would be a lot better.

 

[Wisco_HiFi]

If you are gonna keep the ceiling speakers you could put insulation in behind them. We use denim insulation at work and it really makes a big difference.


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[clyde312]

Thanks for the advice. I really don't have an alternate option for the rears - there is not a wall to mount them, so they will have to remain on the ceiling. I should be able to drop the front LR wiring down to be able to use bookshelf speakers there instead. Is there a good pair of bookshelves I should look at to compensate for not having a center channel?

 

[zieglj01]

Thanks for the advice. I really don't have an alternate option for the rears - there is not a wall to mount them, so they will have to remain on the ceiling. I should be able to drop the front LR wiring down to be able to use bookshelf speakers there instead. Is there a good pair of bookshelves I should look at to compensate for not having a center channel?

JBL Studio 230 -- bookshelf
http://www.parts-express.com/jbl-studio-230-6-1-2-2-way-bookshelf-speaker-pair-black--322-614

In ceiling rear -- JBL Arena
https://www.worldwidestereo.com/categories/in-ceiling-speakers?brand[]=JBL

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Or ceiling mounts for another pair of 230's.

Omni mount

 

[shadyJ]

While you can mount a speaker near the ceiling, it still faces many of the same problems as in-ceiling speakers, and still has no chance of sounding great. The vertical reflections off the ceiling is going to be substantial, and vertical dispersion from typical bookshelf speakers is never pretty. And it will still sound like all of the sound is emanating from the sky. Only use the ceiling speakers either for Atmos height channels or surrounds if you have to. If the wife objects, get a divorce.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

While you can mount a speaker near the ceiling, it still faces many of the same problems as in-ceiling speakers, and still has no chance of sounding great. The vertical reflections off the ceiling is going to be substantial, and vertical dispersion from typical bookshelf speakers is never pretty. And it will still sound like all of the sound is emanating from the sky. Only use the ceiling speakers either for Atmos height channels or surrounds if you have to. If the wife objects, get a divorce.

Agreed. But at least they can be aimed at the LP. Sound great? Arguably, but definitely a better chance than in ceiling.

 

[Pogre]

I would avoid in ceiling like the plague if at all possible. In walls would be better, though not always ideal either. It also sounds like you're going to be pressurizing a lot of space. I'd definitely go with William's advice and hold out for a bigger sub (or 2).

 

[rojo]

@clyde312 Seems like you're between a rock and a hard place. For what it's worth, @ParadigmDawg seems awfully pleased with his in-ceiling system.

 

[clyde312]

Great feedback - thanks all. Has me thinking a bit more about where to go. Obviously my room and wire placement is not ideal, but I'm hoping to at least be in a better spot than before with the inherited 20 year old bose cubes I was using.

While it seems there are some solid in ceiling speakers available - thanks for the reference @rojo - SpeakerCraft puts me a bit above the budget I want to stick to today unless I start with a 2.0 system.

JBL Studio 230 -- bookshelf
http://www.parts-express.com/jbl-studio-230-6-1-2-2-way-bookshelf-speaker-pair-black--322-614

As I look more at the option of a little rewiring for my fronts and consider these JBLs, would they still sound as good being placed on shelves near corners? Would I be better off with sealed or front ported speakers instead?

If I go this route, maybe I move up to the SB-2000 or PB-2000 and start with a 2.1 system and add rears / center at some point in the future. Or maybe just convince the wife that I NEED to spend a bit extra to get rears and a center in from the start...

 

[Pogre]

Tell her you need the extra money for rears and spend it on a better 2.1 to start...

In all seriousness I'd focus on a nice set bookshelf speakers and sub (or 2) for a 2.1 setup first and add on when you have the opportunity. That's my vote.

*Edit: I would avoid rear ported if you're going to place close to a wall. Corner placement can sometimes help your bass response if they sound a little thin.

 

[zieglj01]

As I look more at the option of a little rewiring for my fronts and consider these JBLs, would they still sound as good being placed on shelves near corners? Would I be better off with sealed or front ported speakers instead?

If I go this route, maybe I move up to the SB-2000 or PB-2000 and start with a 2.1 system and add rears / center at some point in the future. Or maybe just convince the wife that I NEED to spend a bit extra to get rears and a center in from the start...

At least go bookshelves up front -- a bigger sub can always help and ported if you can.

For JBL, I would aim for at least 6" clearance from the back wall and 18" from the side walls

If you want to look at sealed speakers, then look at NHT SuperOne 2.1 sold each
https://www.amazon.com/NHT-SuperOne-2-1-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B00LJX4HCY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490914800&sr=8-1&keywords=nhthifi

 

[ParadigmDawg]

@clyde312 Seems like you're between a rock and a hard place. For what it's worth, @ParadigmDawg seems awfully pleased with his in-ceiling system.

ParadigmDawg has a way of throwing money at things until it suits his needs....

That being said, I am still really impressed with what in-ceilings and a proper sub can bring to the table. I see a second sub in my near future but hey, no one can see it so is it really even there?

I am a guy who has had many subs in his house to go along with really good speakers so I am not just pissing in the wind when I am impressed.

For the OP..... This was my system until last month:



And now it's this and I don't miss the old one.



Well...it's that and 5 in-ceilings.(that's my subwoofer)

Here is more of the sub but you can't see this part.



That's my gear stuffed in a closet



And these are the in-ceilings