Advice for Entry level Home Theater Amplifier

[eastcoast]

Hi Friends,

I am looking for an entry level Amplifier for home theater but also for listening to music.
I have a basic Klipsch speaker setup with RF25 front speakers KSW12 sub Infinity center and I think RS-7's in back.

I am thinking of this one (TX-NR585) as I prefer to go Onkyo, Denon or Pioneer to match up with my speakers.
Price is a factor in my decision <$500

Looking for 100 w/channel (5.1 but 7.1 would be nice), min 4 HDMI inputs/1 output and the basics, Bluetooth, atmos...

Thank you.

 

[eastcoast]

Just an update, I found this one that may also be quite interesting: RXV485BL

 

[lovinthehd]

Well avr (audio video receiver) is a better term than "amplifier" for the units you're mentioning. How do you figure Onkyo, Denon or Pioneer brands match up with your Klipsch speakers particularly? Yamaha can work, as can Marantz and Sony and perhaps others....altho usually the big brands will have the advantage for the feature set/price point.

Might check out refurbished units at accessories4less.com for some money savings (but read and understand their terms of sale).

 

[eastcoast]

Hi Lovinthehd,

Thank you for getting back to me. I guess I am going by what people say, then again I am listening to salesmen that most probably want to sell what they have on their floors.

I have always had Yamaha receivers in the past and like the sound they give. My brother swears by Marantz. He has also convinced me to spend a little more and get what I really want otherwise I will regret my decision ... so my budget is now around the $1000 area which translates to around $700 for the same model in the US.

I have not had any bad experiences with refurbished but I would prefer to buy new with a proper warranty.

I am leaning towards, Denon, Yamaha or Marantz.

Thanks again for your input. Happy Easter!

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah if you're outside the US accessories4less (A4L) won't be much help I think. We do have some Canadian (I'm assuming you're Canadian) guys who might clue you into some good places to check.

I've had and still have a variety of avrs, and the brand isn't that big a deal between the main guys, I'd still pick for features/connectivity/amp section. Might keep an eye on Pioneer/Onkyo as per this article/thread, tho. Klipsch speakers tend to be relatively high sensitivity so may not need a ton of amp power but having pre-outs on an avr I think is always good for keeping your amplification options open down the line. My last few have been Denons, which are very similar to Marantz (sharing ownership and some manufacturing), find the Denon brand a bit better value myself.

Got any examples of models/pricing you're looking at?

 

[eastcoast]

Hi,

I am now looking at this model Denon AVR-S750H ($750 Cad), but at 8 oms it pushes 75 wpc and I am hoping for 100. The other option I am not too sure about is eARC and HDMI 2.1. I don't mind running an optical wire to my AVR but do you think I may regret my decision. From what I have read the AVR-S750H supports 2.0, it doesn't seem to have the option for a second zone would be a nice. I have a Samsung 65" UHD 4K Flat Smart TV KU6000.

Thank you.

 

[Mark of Cenla]

The difference between 75wpc and 100wpc is almost not noticeable. Peace and goodwill.

 

[MalVeauX]

Hi,

Why are you hung up on 100 watts?

Consider that you have to double the wattage to double the power in db. So going from 25 watts to 50 watts is +3db of power. But this is not twice as loud. +10db is approximately twice as loud to us psychoacoustically. So from 25 watts, we would need to get to 50 watts (+3db) then 100 watts (+6db) and finally 200 (250 really) watts (+10db) to perceive it to be twice as loud. Going from a 25 watt amp to a 200 watt amp is literally going from $50 to $1,000. There's more to this, of course, but the idea is to help figure out why you need 100 watts.

Great reading material:

The Decibel (dB) Scale & Audio Rules 101

This article discusses the relationship between the decibel(dB) for audio devices that produce sound and how we perceive loudness. Basic audio rules are given to relating to the decibel.

www.audioholics.com

75 watts to 100 watts is virtually meaningless. It's significantly less than +3 db of power. You wouldn't even perceive this most likely.

Instead, I would argue that you should compare your speaker's sensitivity, room size and figure out approximately what range of output you actually need and then shop based on that.

Peak SPL Calculator

Very best,

 

[eastcoast]

Thanks for the advice, I think you are both spot on in that there is not much if any noticeable difference between 75W and 100W. I don't have a very large livingroom, approx 300 square feet but open concept. I was under the assumption that with more wattage I can push the amp a little more and not lose on sound integrity ... I guess that depends on many factors. Also in reading through the SPL Calculator I would want to now stay below the 85dB range to protect my ears... depending how long I am listening at that level.

I had a quick look at the above article. I only read the first couple paragraphs but I think it will teach me quite a bit and provide me with the tools to make a more educated decision vs just going for more power. I also downloaded the excel version of the SPL Calculator and will play around with it. (I will need to find the Speaker Sensitivity for my speakers on line as I no longer have the manuals).

I am happy that rather than telling me what AVR to go grab I am being challenged with taking the time to study what my needs are first and then going from there.

Thanks again for this valuable information.

 

[lovinthehd]

(I will need to find the Speaker Sensitivity for my speakers on line as I no longer have the manuals).

FWIW might consider that Klipsch sensitivity spec is often overstated by 4-5 dB when using the calculators. They spec an "in-room" equivalent which inflates the number a bit. This has been borne out in several third party measurements but you might see if you can find actual measurements for your models rather than just relying on the spec from Klipsch. Then again its still just a guideline of the speaker's efficiency at the parameters of the measurement....might want to check out this article, too https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-sensitivity

 

[Teetertotter?]

My choice for an AVR would be Denon or Yamaha, for what you need for ANY speakers and overall for DD movies and music. Look at the AVR specs that you need from that AVR. Let your budget be your guide.

 

[MalVeauX]

I am happy that rather than telling me what AVR to go grab I am being challenged with taking the time to study what my needs are first and then going from there.

Thanks again for this valuable information.

Your speakers' sensitivities are around 97db (you could use 93~94db to be really safe in a room in case they were generous with the value). These are very sensitive even if you scale back their generous spec. 90db or greater is pretty sensitive and will be efficient and not require gobs of power to do their job.

Aside from the info above and the calculator, also take a look here:

When to Add a Power Amplifier to an A/V Receiver

What benefit does a user get connecting an external power amplifier to their A/V Receiver? This article gives guidelines when it may be time to consider external amplification for your A/V system.

www.audioholics.com

We all find ourselves wanting MOAR pretty much on everything, but it's a good way to ground ourselves from needlessly spending when the physics doesn't magically change when we drop more money. One of the biggest snakeoil myths (in addition to special cables) is that more power will bring out something more in a speaker and without context such as a huge room and already being underpowered on top of being insensitive and less efficient. But if the speaker is efficient and the room is not enormous and you're listening distance isn't extreme, then gobs of more power will not unlock some hidden magic (just more headroom, which you may not need).

Very best,

 

[Pogre]

Hi Lovinthehd,

Thank you for getting back to me. I guess I am going by what people say, then again I am listening to salesmen that most probably want to sell what they have on their floors.

I have always had Yamaha receivers in the past and like the sound they give. My brother swears by Marantz. He has also convinced me to spend a little more and get what I really want otherwise I will regret my decision ... so my budget is now around the $1000 area which translates to around $700 for the same model in the US.

I have not had any bad experiences with refurbished but I would prefer to buy new with a proper warranty.

I am leaning towards, Denon, Yamaha or Marantz.

Thanks again for your input. Happy Easter!

If you can swing it, I think this Marantz SR6014 for $999 is a really good receiver and still current enough for just about anything outside of 8k video. Decent power, great features and a full set of preouts for added flexibility should you decide to add an amp down the road.

Accessories4less: High End Audio at Low End Prices!

www.accessories4less.com

 

[eastcoast]

Wow, yes that is a nice amp for sure .. In Canada it retails for $2K and refurbished is $1500 plus taxes. My budget would be in the $600 area US, which will translate to around $900 in Canada.

For example the Denon AVR-S650H at bestbuy.com is $399.99 and at Bestbuy.ca $600.79. We get gouged here.
For an extra $150 I can get the AVR-S750H, which has Dolby Atmos and Atmos Height Virtualization, Streaming and that extra zone which is an option I would like but when I look at the back I dont see the zone 2

 

[Pogre]

Wow, yes that is a nice amp for sure .. In Canada it retails for $2K and refurbished is $1500 plus taxes. My budget would be in the $600 area US, which will translate to around $900 in Canada.

For example the Denon AVR-S650H at bestbuy.com is $399.99 and at Bestbuy.ca $600.79. We get gouged here.
For an extra $150 I can get the AVR-S750H, which has Dolby Atmos and Atmos Height Virtualization, Streaming and that extra zone which is an option I would like but when I look at the back I dont see the zone 2

I'm sorry man. I get involved in so many threads and lose track of who's who. I forgot you were in canada. Does the 750 have Audyssey MultEQ too? It's not a necessity, but nice to have.

 

[eastcoast]

No worries, I should add a couple eh's in my posts LOL.

I am not sure what Audyssey MultEQ is , Here is a comparable that I found for the 650 vs 750:

Compare Denon AVR-S650H vs Denon AVR-S750H

Comparing Denon AVR-S650H and Denon AVR-S750H? Our Virginia-based experts can help you find the best gear. Get FREE 2-day shipping and free lifetime tech support with your order.

www.crutchfield.com

 

[Pogre]

No worries, I should add a couple eh's in my posts LOL.

I am not sure what Audyssey MultEQ is , Here is a comparable that I found for the 650 vs 750:

Compare Denon AVR-S650H vs Denon AVR-S750H

Comparing Denon AVR-S650H and Denon AVR-S750H? Our Virginia-based experts can help you find the best gear. Get FREE 2-day shipping and free lifetime tech support with your order.

www.crutchfield.com

Looks like they both have MultEQ. What that is, is a room correction program that helps you dial in the distances and levels for your speakers and maybe a little eq for an even frequency response. The upper models have more advanced versions, but MultEQ works okay enough. It does look like there are a few more features and a touch more power with the 750. If a zone 2 is something you'll use it has it.

 

[eastcoast]

Thanks, for the difference in price I will probably regret not getting the 750 as I do plan to have a 2nd zone however I do not see on the back where Zone 2 is. Normally there is a specific stereo output for Zone 2 but I don't see it .. any ideas? Would that be the Assignable Surround 2 section perhaps?

 

[Pogre]

Thanks, for the difference in price I will probably regret not getting the 750 as I do plan to have a 2nd zone however I do not see on the back where Zone 2 is. Normally there is a specific stereo output for Zone 2 but I don't see it .. any ideas? Would that be the Assignable Surround 2 section perhaps?

I think you're talking about preouts. That's different than a zone 2. If you want preouts (for more than subwoofage) it's gonna cost ya. They don't usually come with preouts until you get into mid tier and up. Then they usually come with a full set of preouts for adding an amp down the road if you want.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you... I've never used my zone 2 so I've never set it up. I'm not much good for advice on that.

 

[eastcoast]

Possible, I want to be able to setup a set of speakers to use outside .. hence zone 2