Adding a TT to my system, but which one??

[walter duque]

If been out that the TT game for a long time. Have no idea what's out there anymore. Would like to spend under $500.oo with cartridge included. Just a plain manual TT, nothings fancy. Hookup should be easy since my processor has a
Phono input , but would this input work with a Moving Coil Cartridge?? I am just looking for a plug and play.
Have been checking this one out, does anyone own this TT??

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7623-pro-ject-debut-iii-piano-black-turntable.aspx

 

[ImcLoud]

Pro-ject
I have a rm 1.3 PRO-JECT RM-1.3 TURNTABLE at Music Direct
but the debuts are nice too, I also have one of these PRO-JECT DEBUT III MATTE BLACK TURNTABLE at Music Direct

 

[MidnightSensi2]

Try and find a used Technics 1200 or 1210 if you can (1200s are silver, 1210s are black - same internals).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technics_SL-1200

It's close with your budget because they're now out of production, but, try eBay:
Technics Sl-1200mk2 - Get great deals for Technics Sl-1200mk2 on eBay!

Note shipping will be expensive, they're a little less than 40-lbs!!! Manual, cast body, very good components.

Also they tend to hold their value or go up.

 

[slipperybidness]

Pro-ject
I have a rm 1.3 PRO-JECT RM-1.3 TURNTABLE at Music Direct
but the debuts are nice too, I also have one of these PRO-JECT DEBUT III MATTE BLACK TURNTABLE at Music Direct

IMC and All Pro-Ject owners:

How do you feel about the Pro-Ject Anti-skate mechanism/weight? I just hate that thing, it does not look very effective at all and it constantly swings around while the record is playing. I guess that is the point? To transfer any energy that might cause skating into the weight instead of the arm?

A dang nice looking turntable, then they ruin it with that weight dangling on fishing line!

Also on the Debut, I am VERY suspect of the wall-wart power supply and due to that the accuracy and precision on the motor speed controller. I think the speedbox upgrade is the way to go. In fact, I have been considering building my own speed controller as a great learning project.

 

[ImcLoud]

I try not to put that much thought into it lol, the weight doesn't bother me the table sounds better or as good as any other I have ever used.. and as any I have ever heard, some of which were 15K+, sooooo? Its just a turn table to me... If I had a steady hand I could spin the record myself, lol... Honestly my office manager has one of these {she owns maybe 5 records, so far, 3 of which i gave her, but shes getting there..} Orbit Basic turntable – U-Turn Audio and it works, for under $200 its does the job and as well as any others I have seen.. I mean its a round disk that drags a needle around, not rocket surgery...

Anti-skate, I honestly think they were fixing a problem that didn't need fixing, but the weight adds a little different look to it, kind of what most of our hobby is about... Looking "fancy"...

 

[MidnightSensi2]

IMC and All Pro-Ject owners:

How do you feel about the Pro-Ject Anti-skate mechanism/weight? I just hate that thing, it does not look very effective at all and it constantly swings around while the record is playing. I guess that is the point? To transfer any energy that might cause skating into the weight instead of the arm?

A dang nice looking turntable, then they ruin it with that weight dangling on fishing line!

Also on the Debut, I am VERY suspect of the wall-wart power supply and due to that the accuracy and precision on the motor speed controller. I think the speedbox upgrade is the way to go. In fact, I have been considering building my own speed controller as a great learning project.

I've listened and played with the Pro-Jects. They are dinky compared to a Technics.

Advantages of Technics:
Was originally designed for audiophiles, so, don't let the DJ thing throw you off. DJs picked it before of excellent speed control (for beatmatching) isolation properties (feedback isolation in loud rooms), the strong motor, and reliability. It's direct drive rather than belt driven. Changing from 33 to 45 is just tapping a button. The body is completely cast and if you like listening loud with a big subwoofer, this is a huge plus. Removable head makes installing cartridges much easier. Doesn't need any upgrades (the speedbox upgrade on the Pro-Ject still doesn't compare heh). Will last for your lifetime. You'll be able to sell it for what you paid for it or more. And anti-skate that doesn't suck, re: above hehe. It's a piece of history.. pretty cool too.

Downside of Technics:
- I don't like that the interconnects are attached to them as well, despite the cables being just fine.
- Availability since production stopped in 2010-11.

 

[TLS Guy]

If been out that the TT game for a long time. Have no idea what's out there anymore. Would like to spend under $500.oo with cartridge included. Just a plain manual TT, nothings fancy. Hookup should be easy since my processor has a
Phono input , but would this input work with a Moving Coil Cartridge?? I am just looking for a plug and play.
Have been checking this one out, does anyone own this TT??

file://hhpdc/Users/Whermann/My%20Pictures/PRO-JECT%20DEBUT%20III%20PIANO%20BLACK%20TURNTABLE%20at%20Music%20Direct.htm

Your link does not work even when posted into a browser. Your phono input will not work with most moving coil cartridges. There are a few high output moving coils out there that will work into a moving magnet phono input. However, the output is lower than MM types by a lot, and you court signal to noise and hum problems.

$500 is not a lot for a turntable and cartridge, so it all depends on what your usage is going to be. I would recommend a Project turntable or possibly a Uyurn with an Ortofon Red cartridge, and nothing below that level. You have some pretty nice gear and if you don't want the turntable to sound significantly below your other sources, then you might want to rethink. Turntables and cartridges are not like CD players. There are significant improvements as you move up the food chain.

 

[slipperybidness]

I try not to put that much thought into it lol, the weight doesn't bother me the table sounds better or as good as any other I have ever used.. and as any I have ever heard, some of which were 15K+, sooooo? Its just a turn table to me... If I had a steady hand I could spin the record myself, lol... Honestly my office manager has one of these {she owns maybe 5 records, so far, 3 of which i gave her, but shes getting there..} Orbit Basic turntable – U-Turn Audio and it works, for under $200 its does the job and as well as any others I have seen.. I mean its a round disk that drags a needle around, not rocket surgery...

Anti-skate, I honestly think they were fixing a problem that didn't need fixing, but the weight adds a little different look to it, kind of what most of our hobby is about... Looking "fancy"...

Well, I think that my Technics SL1210 (Shure M97XE cart) sounds better than my Debut Carbon (Ortofon Red). But, 2 completely different systems in 2 rooms so it's not a fair fight.

Yup, the Orbit looks like a heck of a deal! The deal-breaker for me is the stock cart that they put on there. By the time I add a Red cart, I'm back to the price of a Pro-Ject (and Pro-ject seems less risky).

Rocket Surgery I gotta remember that one. Or "it's not brain science" or "I'm not a Rock Scientist"

I am very confident that the SL1200 has much better wow and flutter specs. The quartz timing will smoke the freaking wall wart every time. I may end up building a quartz speed controller as a class project this semester.

 

[slipperybidness]

I've listened and played with the Pro-Jects. They are dinky compared to a Technics.

Advantages of Technics:
Was originally designed for audiophiles, so, don't let the DJ thing throw you off. DJs picked it before of excellent speed control (for beatmatching) isolation properties (feedback isolation in loud rooms), the strong motor, and reliability. It's direct drive rather than belt driven. Changing from 33 to 45 is just tapping a button. The body is completely cast and if you like listening loud with a big subwoofer, this is a huge plus. Removable head makes installing cartridges much easier. Doesn't need any upgrades (the speedbox upgrade on the Pro-Ject still doesn't compare heh). Will last for your lifetime. You'll be able to sell it for what you paid for it or more. And anti-skate that doesn't suck, re: above hehe. It's a piece of history.. pretty cool too.

Downside of Technics:
- I don't like that the interconnects are attached to them as well, despite the cables being just fine.
- Availability since production stopped in 2010-11.

Yuppers!

I own an SL1210 and the Pro-Ject Carbon. I have no doubt that the 1210 is a superior TT. I bought mine new, right near the end of the production.

I agree that the only real drawback to the 1200 series is the built in RCAs. They are adequate, but I don't think they are shielded.

Another great thing about the 1200 is that parts and upgrades are readily available and "everyone" knows how to work on them. It isn't too difficult to swap out the stock cables and add RCA jacks, but I haven't bothered to do it.

One note on the 1210 or 1200, I would prefer to stay away from one that saw DJ use/abuse. The build quality of these means they can handle a LOT of abuse and keep on going in spec, but I would still prefer to stay away from those that saw extensive use in the clubs.

 

[walter duque]

Your link does not work even when posted into a browser. Your phono input will not work with most moving coil cartridges. There are a few high output moving coils out there that will work into a moving magnet phono input. However, the output is lower than MM types by a lot, and you court signal to noise and hum problems.

$500 is not a lot for a turntable and cartridge, so it all depends on what your usage is going to be. I would recommend a Project turntable or possibly a Uyurn with an Ortofon Red cartridge, and nothing below that level. You have some pretty nice gear and if you don't want the turntable to sound significantly below your other sources, then you might want to rethink. Turntables and cartridges are not like CD players. There are significant improvements as you move up the food chain.

I think you're right. Now I kind of regret selling my old Empire a few years back, just couldn't find a new stylus for it anywhere, it got bend when moving.

 

[Swerd]

Downside of Technics:
- I don't like that the interconnects are attached to them as well, despite the cables being just fine.

I agree that the only real drawback to the 1200 series is the built in RCAs. They are adequate, but I don't think they are shielded.

They may look slender, but I doubt they aren't shielded. Without shielding, you would probably hear a loud hum from the turntable.

There's a good reason why turntables came with hard wired signal cables. Those cables are all 36-40" long, maybe 48"at the very longest. At a very low signal strength no larger than 5 mV, longer cables introduce significant impedance. That can color low voltage music signals, filtering out some of the high frequency. To prevent owners from using long cables, the manufacturers hard wired signal cables of the correct length.

Recently, turntables started coming with RCA jacks at the base. This was probably to answer the incessant but unreasonable demands of their audiophile customers. I'd guess that the manufacturers include a 1 meter long RCA interconnect with the turntable, along with specific instructions to use nothing longer.

If circumstances force you to locate your turntable farther away from your next connection, attach the short turntable cables to a phono preamp, and add the longer interconnects between the phono preamp and the next connection.

 

[slipperybidness]

They may look slender, but I doubt they aren't shielded. Without shielding, you would probably hear a loud hum from the turntable.

There's a good reason why turntables came with hard wired signal cables. Those cables are all 36-40" long, maybe 48"at the very longest. At a very low signal strength no larger than 5 mV, longer cables introduce significant impedance. That can color low voltage music signals, filtering out some of the high frequency. To prevent owners from using long cables, the manufacturers hard wired signal cables of the correct length.

Recently, turntables started coming with RCA jacks at the base. This was probably to answer the incessant but unreasonable demands of their audiophile customers. I'd guess that the manufacturers include a 1 meter long RCA interconnect with the turntable, along with specific instructions to use nothing longer.

If circumstances force you to locate your turntable farther away from your next connection, attach the short turntable cables to a phono preamp, and add the longer interconnects between the phono preamp and the next connection.

Of course, you are correct. I wasn't even considering this (but I did already "know" about this)

 

[MidnightSensi2]

Yeah, the RCAs are shielded just fine. It's more that I'd like to hook a nice looking RCA up to them instead. But, black regular RCAs work fine. I have two, so, I could mod one to accept custom RCAs. But, won't make any sonic difference. Was thinking of keeping one original and modding the other a bit.

Yuppers!

I own an SL1210 and the Pro-Ject Carbon. I have no doubt that the 1210 is a superior TT. I bought mine new, right near the end of the production.

I agree that the only real drawback to the 1200 series is the built in RCAs. They are adequate, but I don't think they are shielded.

Another great thing about the 1200 is that parts and upgrades are readily available and "everyone" knows how to work on them. It isn't too difficult to swap out the stock cables and add RCA jacks, but I haven't bothered to do it.

One note on the 1210 or 1200, I would prefer to stay away from one that saw DJ use/abuse. The build quality of these means they can handle a LOT of abuse and keep on going in spec, but I would still prefer to stay away from those that saw extensive use in the clubs.

Nod. Mine were made in the 00's, but, I have friends have ones from the 80s and 90s and they work like new. The lights eventually burn out (mine haven't yet), that's about it hehe. And that's just an excuse to install a different color light hehe.

Like you said, the other advantage is availability of parts is high and TONS of information on them and helpful people.

The Wheels of Steel. Maybe there is better, but, I have no doubt in my mind why these became historical. As far as usability, quality, ergonomics, maintainability, etc. etc. it's turntable heaven.


Oh! Another benefit: Can buy multiple headshells and swap cartridges really fast

 

[slipperybidness]

Yeah, the RCAs are shielded just fine. It's more that I'd like to hook a nice looking RCA up to them instead. But, black regular RCAs work fine. I have two, so, I could mod one to accept custom RCAs. But, won't make any sonic difference. Was thinking of keeping one original and modding the other a bit.



Nod. Mine were made in the 00's, but, I have friends have ones from the 80s and 90s and they work like new. The lights eventually burn out (mine haven't yet), that's about it hehe. And that's just an excuse to install a different color light hehe.

Like you said, the other advantage is availability of parts is high and TONS of information on them and helpful people.

The Wheels of Steel. Maybe there is better, but, I have no doubt in my mind why these became historical. As far as usability, quality, ergonomics, maintainability, etc. etc. it's turntable heaven.


Oh! Another benefit: Can buy multiple headshells and swap cartridges really fast

Check out this 1200 mod! Pretty awesome. This is actually a friend's website and this is his work. I met him at a previous job.

Millennium 1200