Adding a power AMP to my mains....

[moves]

I am currently running the pioneer SC 27 integrated amplifier at 140 watts/channel. My mains are Totem Forest.

My question is, do you think it is worth adding a 2 channel power amp to power solely my mains? I was thinking of a MAC mc252 at 250 watts / channel....


what do you think the difference would be?

 

[just-some-guy]

idk. but i am going to say "minimal", at best.

but
there will be a high "cool factor".

 

[jeannot]

I am currently running the pioneer SC 27 integrated amplifier at 140 watts/channel. My mains are Totem Forest.

My question is, do you think it is worth adding a 2 channel power amp to power solely my mains? I was thinking of a MAC mc252 at 250 watts / channel....


what do you think the difference would be?

I have to agree with just-some-guy.
Unless... Unless you are an audiophile. If you do, you already have great speakers and a serious listening room, then going from Pioneer to MacIntosh is definitely a serious musical upgrade. Again, just an opinion.

 

[just-some-guy]

Unless... Unless you are an audiophile.

please explain.

 

[3db]

I am currently running the pioneer SC 27 integrated amplifier at 140 watts/channel. My mains are Totem Forest.

My question is, do you think it is worth adding a 2 channel power amp to power solely my mains? I was thinking of a MAC mc252 at 250 watts / channel....


what do you think the difference would be?

How large is the room that they are in? Have you measured (using an SPL) how loud you typically listen to music? Do you hear the Pioneer losing compsure sounding strained or harsh?

 

[moves]

How large is the room that they are in? Have you measured (using an SPL) how loud you typically listen to music? Do you hear the Pioneer losing compsure sounding strained or harsh?

Hello,

I am not sure what or how to measure using SPL... but I am sitting vert close to my speakers. Here are pictures of my setup:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2481&page=35

What I am looking for is more of a punch with explosions from HT. Maybe a better choice would be to upgrade my center and surrounds from lower end PSB (alpha and image) to a Totem sig one center along with a Totem surround option)....

Once I move into a bigger room (dedicated HT room) the MAC addition might be a more sensible piece to spend money on?

The pioneer sounds great to me... no harshness etc. I am just looking for a bigger punch. I am never satisfied

 

[3db]

Hello,

I am not sure what or how to measure using SPL... but I am sitting vert close to my speakers. Here are pictures of my setup:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2481&page=35

What I am looking for is more of a punch with explosions from HT. Maybe a better choice would be to upgrade my center and surrounds from lower end PSB (alpha and image) to a Totem sig one center along with a Totem surround option)....

Once I move into a bigger room (dedicated HT room) the MAC addition might be a more sensible piece to spend money on?

The pioneer sounds great to me... no harshness etc. I am just looking for a bigger punch. I am never satisfied

Your Pioneer has more than enough power for that room. The punch you are looking for will come from a better subwoofer. Thats tThe one thing I would consider changing first is your center channel and match it with something else made by Totem. You can leave the surrounds alone unless multichannel audio is in the plans. In that case, you may want to match your surrounds with the Forests as well.

 

[jostenmeat]

Hello,

I am not sure what or how to measure using SPL... but I am sitting vert close to my speakers. Here are pictures of my setup:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2481&page=35

What I am looking for is more of a punch with explosions from HT. Maybe a better choice would be to upgrade my center and surrounds from lower end PSB (alpha and image) to a Totem sig one center along with a Totem surround option)....

Once I move into a bigger room (dedicated HT room) the MAC addition might be a more sensible piece to spend money on?

The pioneer sounds great to me... no harshness etc. I am just looking for a bigger punch. I am never satisfied

Did you level match your three speakers? Did you use MCAAC?

I looked up the Forest, because every time I read Totem, I start thinking low sens. This one is at 86db/2.83, and not as as bad as the 81 or 82 I've seen with Totem. OTOH, Stereophile says that the benign impedances with phase angles in relation to frequencies should result in being pretty easy to drive. So then I ask if you did level match, out of curiosity.

I would put the center speaker much higher, if performance is the primary concern. As in above where even the receiver is at, if possible, by a adding shelf or housing or something.

 

[jeannot]

please explain.

My wery subjective definition of an audiophile is someone who sits down regularly to listen to music, just the music. Mostly classical, blues, or jazz.

These people (A few friends of mine are audiophiles) know how many times Dave Brubeck got married, can tell within seconds when your channels are reversed, and resisted digital audio for years because it sounded like crap, back when it sounded like crap.

This is not meant to put down anyone, or any style of music.
Please, no attacks, I'm just trying to help.

 

[3db]

My wery subjective definition of an audiophile is someone who sits down regularly to listen to music, just the music. Mostly classical, blues, or jazz.

These people (A few friends of mine are audiophiles) know how many times Dave Brubeck got married, can tell within seconds when your channels are reversed, and resisted digital audio for years because it sounded like crap, back when it sounded like crap.

This is not meant to put down anyone, or any style of music.
Please, no attacks, I'm just trying to help.

You nailed my genre of music but I'm a far cry from an audiophile. Matter of fact, I would take offense to that remark.

 

[just-some-guy]

My wery subjective definition of an audiophile is someone who sits down regularly to listen to music, just the music. Mostly classical, blues, or jazz.

These people (A few friends of mine are audiophiles) know how many times Dave Brubeck got married, can tell within seconds when your channels are reversed, and resisted digital audio for years because it sounded like crap, back when it sounded like crap.

This is not meant to put down anyone, or any style of music.
Please, no attacks, I'm just trying to help.

i am sure there is more to it than that. but i will accept that as an accurate definition. (like i am some kind of authority )

i listen to ROCK & 80'S METAL. these genre's are not audiophile. as in, when recorded, they are not much concerned whether or not you can tell where, on a stage, the instruments are. classical, blues, or jazz = they care. this is why i wish i liked those genre's (i do like some blues. the closest i can get to classical = Moody Blues).

oh. i remember when digital audio, Cd's, came out. add you are right. they did sound like crap back then.

 

[just-some-guy]

moves

what sub do you have there ? i cannot see why that doesn't give you the punch you want .
perhaps you need another.

and i whole heartedly agree with raising up that center. just for a test, put it on top of the reciever and see how you like it. i KNOW it will make movies sound better.

 

[moves]

Hey guys thanks for the interest,

I have used the pioneers on screen calibration (MCAAC or whatever the acronym is)

Regarding the center channel, I totally agree with you all. The thing is, I can't fit my AVR underneath where the center is at the moment because of my damn snap together cheap *** shelf shelf/center furniture unit i have. I may try and fix it this summer but we'll see. I can't make another shelf for the center on top of the AVR and put the center there because the the AVR won't have room to breath.

My sub is a PSB subsonic 5i .... it's a little weak. I am also thinking of mass loading the totems a little bit to see what happens. They produce real nice base but I am just the type of person who is never satisfied .... Deciding on a medium is another issue. I am thinking odourless cat litter.

There is nice base, don't get me wrong. The totems are real nice for that.... i am just looking for when an explosion kicks in for it to shake the room CLEANLY and not SLOPPILY (I know... that's not a word but you know what I mean)

I agree it's a sub issue and def not a speaker issue..... i was just thinking maybe a power amp will help.

 

[3db]

Hey guys thanks for the interest,

I have used the pioneers on screen calibration (MCAAC or whatever the acronym is)

Regarding the center channel, I totally agree with you all. The thing is, I can't fit my AVR underneath where the center is at the moment because of my damn snap together cheap *** shelf shelf/center furniture unit i have. I may try and fix it this summer but we'll see. I can't make another shelf for the center on top of the AVR and put the center there because the the AVR won't have room to breath.

My sub is a PSB subsonic 5i .... it's a little weak. I am also thinking of mass loading the totems a little bit to see what happens. They produce real nice base but I am just the type of person who is never satisfied .... Deciding on a medium is another issue. I am thinking odourless cat litter.

There is nice base, don't get me wrong. The totems are real nice for that.... i am just looking for when an explosion kicks in for it to shake the room CLEANLY and not SLOPPILY (I know... that's not a word but you know what I mean)

I agree it's a sub issue and def not a speaker issue..... i was just thinking maybe a power amp will help.

I have the older Subsonic 5 which is slightly weaker than the 5i but I still manged to knock a painting off the wall with it. My wife wasn't happy about it but I was smiling from ear to ear.

Why would mass loading the Forests help you with overall bass response? Aren't all your speakers set to small on the receiver? If not, do that and let the sub handle all the bass instead of sharing it with your Forests. That will give you a big improvement in bass response there.

This sub won't do 20 Hz and if you are looking to get into that territory, look at SVS, HSU, Outlaw etc. Have you did the room crawl yet? Meaning put the subwoofer at your listening position and crawl around the room until you find a spot where the bass is the strongest and smoothest. That's where the sub should go. I've done this and my subsonic 5 ended up 1' behind the listening position. If you have done this already, then get a sub from the manufacturer's I suggested. Good luck and let us know.

 

[PENG]

I have the older Subsonic 5 which is slightly weaker than the 5i but I still manged to knock a painting off the wall with it. My wife wasn't happy about it but I was smiling from ear to ear.

Why would mass loading the Forests help you with overall bass response? Aren't all your speakers set to small on the receiver? If not, do that and let the sub handle all the bass instead of sharing it with your Forests. That will give you a big improvement in bass response there.

This sub won't do 20 Hz and if you are looking to get into that territory, look at SVS, HSU, Outlaw etc. Have you did the room crawl yet? Meaning put the subwoofer at your listening position and crawl around the room until you find a spot where the bass is the strongest and smoothest. That's where the sub should go. I've done this and my subsonic 5 ended up 1' behind the listening position. If you have done this already, then get a sub from the manufacturer's I suggested. Good luck and let us know.

If he lisen in pure direct without a sub it may help but I doubt it too. I would think more power may help but no matter what the manufacturers would like to claim, one should not expect the best "explosive" bass from a single 6.5" driver, without the help of a sub.

 

[3db]

If he lisen in pure direct without a sub it may help but I doubt it too. I would think more power may help but no matter what the manufacturers would like to claim, one should not expect the best "explosive" bass from a single 6.5" driver, without the help of a sub.

I think the Forests would not need a sub for most music as there bass response is quite decent for their size. But for HT, forget it. Like you said, not enough speaker there to dig in deep.

 

[just-some-guy]

i agree with moving the sub. and/or replacing it.

i don't see an amp making those speakers put out more bass. when my xpa-3 went down, i ran off the receiver. i saw surprised at just how well the 01TXH did. and i sometimes crank it up !

 

[PENG]

I think the Forests would not need a sub for most music as there bass response is quite decent for their size. But for HT, forget it. Like you said, not enough speaker there to dig in deep.

I agree with you. I was referring to the what he talked about "when an explosion kicks in for it to shake the room cleanly.........." so I assume he meant HT, not the 1812 overture. Still, adding a power amp may still help a little when the Totem is asked to do full range and to produce its rated SPL.

 

[3db]

I agree with you. I was referring to the what he talked about "when an explosion kicks in for it to shake the room cleanly.........." so I assume he meant HT, not the 1812 overture. Still, adding a power amp may still help a little when the Totem is asked to do full range and to produce its rated SPL.

OMG Rated SPL in a room that size? He'll have his ears ringing for a week.

 

[Mike Ronesia]

I would go with the sub upgrade. Trying to get those speakers to do what your current sub can't is asking too much of them.