Accuton vs Scanspeak vs Audio Technology

[AcuDefTechGuy]

While I don't agree with most of what DS has been saying in this thread, I don't think it is appropriate to accuse him of what you have here. If you want to refute his argument, that is one thing, but to attack his character is another.

Dennis' skills have not been brought to question. They were simply disagreeing on a particular part of speaker design. I don't think anyone here thinks Dennis is a poor designer, but even if he was THE BEST, what's wrong with questioning or disagreeing? I greatly respect Dennis and have even asked him to design a crossover for me, but just because I think he is talented, doesn't mean he should be immune to questioning/explaining his reasoning. How would one learn if they never question?

If Émilie du Châtelet had thought Newton was too talented to question she would have never considered Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz could be right, and we wouldn't have realized he was.

Vis viva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=219YybX66MY&feature=related

Do you have any evidence for this?

It seems more like you are attacking his character in order to disprove his argument.

I agree 100%. Let's debate and discuss. We can agree to disagree. But let's not do personal attacks. Let's stick to the point of discussion.

 

[Swerd]

While I don't agree with most of what DS has been saying in this thread, I don't think it is appropriate to accuse him of what you have here. If you want to refute his argument, that is one thing, but to attack his character is another.

I agree 100%. Let's debate and discuss. We can agree to disagree. But let's not do personal attacks. Let's stick to the point of discussion.

While I generally agree with the sentiment the two of you have expressed, I suspect Nuance is correct about this DS guy. Nuance has seen more of him on AVS, and he is more like an irritant or provocateur – a troll if you will – than anything else. If his real intentions were to win converts to controlled dispersion (CD) speaker designs, then his posts here fail miserably. He seems to intentionally pollute threads with his long-winded opinions without any effort to inform, educate, or persuade. Although he is somewhat skillful with his words, I'm afraid DS is more BS than anything else.

Dennis' skills have not been brought to question. They were simply disagreeing on a particular part of speaker design.

I have seen his posts here on AH taking cheap shots disparaging Dennis's designs. In my opinion, his comments about "midrange mushroom clouds" and "listener fatigue" clearly demonstrate his ignorance about how Dennis's speakers sound. These posts don't inform us of anything about CD speakers that might be useful.

Dennis doesn't need us to defend him. He is more than capable of doing that himself. My main interest here is in avoiding thread pollution.

As always, I am ready to admit I'm wrong. But it's going to take some extraordinary changes from DS that have not appeared so far.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

While I generally agree with the sentiment the two of you have expressed, I suspect Nuance is correct about this DS guy. Nuance has seen more of him on AVS, and he is more like an irritant or provocateur – a troll if you will – than anything else. If his real intentions were to win converts to controlled dispersion (CD) speaker designs, then his posts here fail miserably. He seems to intentionally pollute threads with his long-winded opinions without any effort to inform, educate, or persuade. Although he is somewhat skillful with his words, I'm afraid DS is more BS than anything else.

I have seen his posts here on AH taking cheap shots disparaging Dennis's designs. In my opinion, his comments about "midrange mushroom clouds" and "listener fatigue" clearly demonstrate his ignorance about how Dennis's speakers sound. These posts don't inform us of anything about CD speakers that might be useful.

Dennis doesn't need us to defend him. He is more than capable of doing that himself. My main interest here is in avoiding thread pollution.

As always, I am ready to admit I'm wrong. But it's gong to take some extraordinary changes from DS that have not appeared so far.

Now I'm getting cornfused. I don't think DS had any problems with the Philharmonics. He seems to have gone out of his way to say that I was following best practice by crossing fairly low from the tweeter to a narrow, wide dispersion midrange. My disagreement with him is more one of degree than kind. He seems to think that any speaker that runs a woofer or mid up to the onset of beaming is fatally flawed. I don't agree with that, and I have a number of designs that would flunk his test (the Songtower dome being one of them). Maybe they would sound better if I could run the tweeter low enough, but that simply isn't possible without overtaxing the tweeter and producing unacceptable amounts of harmonic distortion. It's not black and white. It's about trade offs.

 

[gtpsuper24]

I have seen his posts here on AH taking cheap shots disparaging Dennis's designs. In my opinion, his comments about "midrange mushroom clouds" and "listener fatigue" clearly demonstrate his ignorance about how Dennis's speakers sound. These posts don't inform us of anything about CD speakers that might be useful.

His posts comes across as if we are all idiots and don't know good sounding speakers. If he doesn't approve of the speaker than somehow we are listening to low-fi garbage that deserves to be thrown away. No matter what is discussed he fines something to ***** about. I've told him before if he thinks he's so great prove it and build a company like Dennis has or Jon Lane or Jim Salk ect... Instead he's just a keyboard critic who *****es about something just by looking at the pictures. I would say he's ignorant about how alot of speakers sound not just Dennis's.

 

[GranteedEV]

I think rooms are so different that we can't know anything about what other people hear in their rooms.

A poster a few months ago greatly preferred the KEF R300 speakers over the Salk Songtowers for example. Considering how similarily they probably measure on the listening window, I can't help but wonder if the differences matter a lot more in that person's room than, say, Dennis' room.

I lean towards speakers that have a smoothly tapering sound power response. It's not that I don't think speakers like the Songtowers, or RBH, or PSB, etc etc can't sound good. I really like the sound of my EMP speakers which on paper could have issues in their power response. But I don't know how they would interact with anyone's room(s) but my own. I feel a lot more confident with the versatility of speakers that make efforts to radiate sound uniformly, at least horizontally.

 

[monkish54]

Now I'm getting cornfused.

I F-ing hate getting cornfused!!

 

[Swerd]

I don't want to spend more time on this than it's worth, but I searched for a few of his past posts that irritated me. I think he deliberately tries to provoke people. It is also possible that he is a socially inept know-it-all who doesn't understand how much he irritates people. Take your pick. At best, I think he's a long-winded bore, who offers little of interest to readers who might want to learn about what contributes to make a good sounding speaker. But if that were so, my first reaction would be to ignore him, and I'm well past that.

Read these individual posts and see if they don't raise your blood pressure:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/916805-post8.html

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/902876-post24.html

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/887220-post20.html

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

DS mentioned several times that the Philharmonic speakers have proven to be very good - the on-axis and 60 degrees horizontal off-axis look very good.

I think he is just very opinionated, which rubs a lot of folks the wrong way.

I don't see him as a troll here or on AVS.

But this is off topics. This thread is not about DS personally.

DS and TLS Guy have opinions about ribbons that may differ from some folks. They stated their reasons for not preferring ribbons. Dennis, Swerd, and others have given rebuttals. It's a discussion/ debate. It will most likely be the case of agreeing to disagree.

 

[billy p]

Maybe when he(ds21) finally builds his first production speaker and give us a full range of measurments & graphs to muse over he'll stop being so openly critical of others designs...He reminds me of another fellow(AJinFLA) who has since gone public with his own line of speakers who was banned from this site with a similar demeanour that can rub folks the wrong way.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I F-ing hate getting cornfused!!

That sounds unpleasant.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think rooms are so different that we can't know anything about what other people hear in their rooms.

A poster a few months ago greatly preferred the KEF R300 speakers over the Salk Songtowers...

And then he later preferred the Q900 over the R300.

There are a lot of good theories which make the world go around. But in the end, it's still the actual listening of the speakers that is important.

 

[monkish54]

Maybe when he(ds21) finally builds his first production speaker and give us a full range of measurments & graphs to muse over he'll stop being so openly critical of others designs...He reminds me of another fellow(AJinFLA) who has since gone public with his own line of speakers who was banned from this site with a similar demeanour that can rub folks the wrong way.

Say what you will about AJ, he knows what he is talking about. He might be an assclown on the forums, but he doesn't let audiophools get away with any rubbish, and for that I respect him greatly.

He could have certainly been a little nicer, but I as far as I was concerned, I didn't care what his demeanor was. I knew I could learn from him, and that's what I am here to do.

 

[monkish54]

OP:

I think what we're trying to say here is...ScanSpeak.

 

[GranteedEV]

And then he later preferred the Q900 over the R300.

Which... on paper is less room-sensitive than the r900 in the upper midrange...............despite other design issues I've mentioned in the past.

 

[Nuance AH]

I F-ing hate getting cornfused!!

Then you should probably pay more attention, especially before trying to debate my points about DS-21, which anyone can determine by reading his posts here on AH and over at AVS. He has deliberately taken pot shots at Dennis' work, even the Philharmonic stuff. Don't you own those speakers? But you're defending someone who trolls forums and attacks wherever he goes? You do realize it's not an attack on someone's character when you are simply stating the truth about their behavior, right? Search these forums and AVS; I know you're forum capable, so I am confident you'll find many posts and see what I'm talking about.

I agree 100%. Let's debate and discuss. We can agree to disagree. But let's not do personal attacks. Let's stick to the point of discussion.

The pot calling the kettle black. Humorous for sure!

Say what you will about AJ, he knows what he is talking about. He might be an assclown on the forums, but he doesn't let audiophools get away with any rubbish, and for that I respect him greatly.

He could have certainly been a little nicer, but I as far as I was concerned, I didn't care what his demeanor was. I knew I could learn from him, and that's what I am here to do.

He does know his stuff, technically speaking. He doesn't know how to treat people, though, and it shows in his sales numbers. If he was a nice guy I guarantee he'd have made many more sales, but people remember how they were treated by him on the forums, and it deters them from his products.

Back to the topic at hand: if the OP wants to use the RAAL ribbon he shouldn't be deterred by what someone says on the online forums; he should listen to a design with one properly implemented and decide for himself. AcuDefTechGuy and I agree about very little, but we couldn't agree more when we say you need to listen for yourself and decide based on that, and preferably in your own home.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Then you should probably pay more attention, especially before trying to debate my points about DS-21, which anyone can determine by reading his posts here on AH and over at AVS. He has deliberately taken pot shots at Dennis' work, even the Philharmonic stuff. Don't you own those speakers? But you're defending someone who trolls forums and attacks wherever he goes? You do realize it's not an attack on someone's character when you are simply stating the truth about their behavior, right? Search these forums and AVS; I know you're forum capable, so I am confident you'll find many posts and see what I'm talking about.

The pot calling the kettle black. Humorous for sure!

He does know his stuff, technically speaking. He doesn't know how to treat people, though, and it shows in his sales numbers. If he was a nice guy I guarantee he'd have made many more sales, but people remember how they were treated by him on the forums, and it deters them from his products.

Back to the topic at hand: if the OP wants to use the RAAL ribbon he shouldn't be deterred by what someone says on the online forums; he should listen to a design with one properly implemented and decide for himself. AcuDefTechGuy and I agree about very little, but we couldn't agree more when we say you need to listen for yourself and decide based on that, and preferably in your own home.

Typing on forums is very different than socializing in person. I believe in person, all of us would get along just fine over a couple of beers.

Sometimes we are in a bad mood and we get offended easier than other times when we are in a good mood.

A lot of times we respond to a thread with full memory of the disagreements and arguments from previous threads.

We are only humans. Some of us are in better control of ourselves than others. Dennis Murphy and Jim Salk are in this category, along with Sean Olive, Andrew Jones, Siegfried Linkwitz, GedLee, etc. Notice how they NEVER attack anyone EVER no matter what?

Some of us (crazy fool ADTG & some others) tend to lose our cool easier. Our buttons are easier to push.

Yes, I deserve to be b!tch slapped when I personally attack anyone. No excuses.

Hopefully I will learn to keep my cool. Again. And again.

So even if we disagree (with DS or AJ or anyone else), let's try to take the high road and not do personal attacks and accusations.

 

[Nuance AH]

Typing on forums is very different than socializing in person. I believe in person, all of us would get along just fine over a couple of beers.

Sometimes we are in a bad mood and we get offended easier than other times when we are in a good mood.

A lot of times we respond to a thread with full memory of the disagreements and arguments from previous threads.

We are only humans. Some of us are in better control of ourselves than others. Dennis Murphy and Jim Salk are in this category, along with Sean Olive, Andrew Jones, Siegfried Linkwitz, GedLee, etc. Notice how they NEVER attack anyone EVER no matter what?

Some of us (ADTG & some others) tend to lose our cool easier. Our buttons are easier to push.

Yes, I deserve to be b!tch slapped when I personally attack anyone. No excuses.

Hopefully I will learn to keep my cool. Again. And again.

So even if we disagree (with DS or AJ or anyone else), let's try to take the high road and not do personal attacks and accusations.

Well said, and so true. It's a good thing you and I aren't trying to sell our own brand of speakers, eh? No one would ever buy them!

 

[monkish54]

Then you should probably pay more attention, especially before trying to debate my points about DS-21, which anyone can determine by reading his posts here on AH and over at AVS.

None of the posts I have seen (including the posts linked) have lead me to believe he is a troll. He might be opinionated, but are you not?

He has deliberately taken pot shots at Dennis' work, even the Philharmonic stuff.

He has said multiple times that the Phils are top notch.

Don't you own those speakers?

I do. I love them. Yesterday I played them loud for the first time and hand an eargasm. Regardless, if I ran around *****ing with everyone who doesn't like the speakers I own for one reason or another, I wouldn't have any time to listen to them. When he was incorrect about the RAAL, I posted a link that proved him wrong.

But you're defending someone who trolls forums and attacks wherever he goes?

There was a guy on here...can't remember his name. He would join a thread and say things like "The op's question is utterly stupid" and then not post anything. HE was a troll. DS might be the WG and CD police but I don't find him to be obnoxious.

TBQH, and i'm not attacking you here so don't be offend...you were the first one to throw daggers. The thread went from CD to "why is DS a dipshit" because you attacked him (whether right or wrong) and I replied to it. If we're talking about attacking...in this instance...you have no place to talk.

You do realize it's not an attack on someone's character when you are simply stating the truth about their behavior, right?

Whether you are correct or incorrect is irrelevant. To attack him to disprove his argument is a logical fallacy. Maybe he is a huge turd, maybe he is not. Either way, I don't think it was necessary. These forums are for learning, and Dennis handled it perfectly. He disproved him with logic not personal attacks. Now someone who reads this thread will learn that DS was wrong, not that he was a meany.

He does know his stuff, technically speaking. He doesn't know how to treat people, though, and it shows in his sales numbers.

What are his sales numbers? Last I spoke to him (few days ago), he said SFA was doing great, but just a fun side project.

If you want to rebuttal, that is more than justified but I think I'm going to leave it here. My only point was attacking him doesn't do anything for anybody, and it doesn't properly disprove his argument.

 

[Steve81]

Whether you are correct or incorrect is irrelevant. To attack him to disprove his argument is a logical fallacy. Maybe he is a huge turd, maybe he is not. Either way, I don't think it was necessary. These forums are for learning, and Dennis handled it perfectly. He disproved him with logic not personal attacks. Now someone who reads this thread will learn that DS was wrong, not that he was a meany.

You would go nowhere in politics

 

[Nuance AH]

If you want to rebuttal, that is more than justified but I think I'm going to leave it here. My only point was attacking him doesn't do anything for anybody, and it doesn't properly disprove his argument.

Now who's taking the thread off topic?

You keep telling me I personally attacked DS-21 when I simply stated his behavioral patterns. This is an attack:

I'M a bored teenager...he's a d*ck. XD

Try not to be a hypocrite.

You're obviously very confused. Use the search function, read DS-21's posts, focus (read between the lines. He will praise a speaker but then dump on it all in the same paragraph) and be enlightened. Until then, ta ta.