AC protection for Trinnov AV Processor

[Truett]

Not concerned about using during power outage. But want to use something to protect the unit since it is a computer. What is recommended?

 

[ryanosaur]

Not concerned about using during power outage. But want to use something to protect the unit since it is a computer. What is recommended?

I would probably go the way of an UPS. The uninterruptible power supply will give you time to safely power down if power is interrupted, so not so much about running the device on battery back up, but keeping the system powered until you can deal with it properly.
Surge protection isn’t really a thing that will prevent damage at the outlet. If you own your home, you may wish to consider whole-home surge protection which is installed at your service panel.

 

[Truett]

I would probably go the way of an UPS. The uninterruptible power supply will give you time to safely power down if power is interrupted, so not so much about running the device on battery back up, but keeping the system powered until you can deal with it properly.
Surge protection isn’t really a thing that will prevent damage at the outlet. If you own your home, you may wish to consider whole-home surge protection which is installed at your service panel.

I had heard that there are certain UPSs that are appropriate for AV that may be different from regular computer UPSs. What is recommended, and what size? Would amplifiers use one, too?

 

[ryanosaur]

I had heard that there are certain UPSs that are appropriate for AV that may be different from regular computer UPSs. What is recommended, and what size? Would amplifiers use one, too?

There is no such thing as audiophile surge protection or such. All the gear that markets itself toward that "crowd" is a gimmick, with some of the testing that's been done showing some such product actually limits voltage pass through to the devices plugged in to them!
This is bad.

Look for good quality brands: APC, Tripp-Lite, CyberPower... And don't fall for smoke and mirrors audiophool cr@p.

I suspect if you reach out to Trinnov, they may even have a brand or model they recommend that will support your device... at least I've heard good things about Trinnov support.

I don't use any UPS in my scene, so I can't really speak to what your needs may be for the Trinnov.

There really isn't any need to plug an Amp into UPS. I would just go straight to wall socket... or if you have to plug into a strip for convenience just make certain the strip is as highly rated as possible to provide full power to the Amps.

 

[TLS Guy]

I had heard that there are certain UPSs that are appropriate for AV that may be different from regular computer UPSs. What is recommended, and what size? Would amplifiers use one, too?

I use standard computer APC UPS units of the correct power. Remember VA is not watts for an AC circuit, only a DC circuit. Do not connect power amps to UPS units.

For the phase angle of a home AC circuit 300 watts is 500 VA. So your UPS will be specked in VA, but your processor will be specked in watts. I would get a unit over specked by 25%. So if your unit draws 1200 watts for instance then you should get a 2,500 VA UPS.

One other thing, get whole house surge protection installed at entry to your residence. If you can't do it at entry, then do it at the panel. Do not use surge protector strips. Doing at entry gives you the best protection and protects everything in your house. This is now code in many places now, and should be everywhere. That is actually the most important item to protect your gear. Whole house protection saved me a boat load of trouble last summer with a direct hit.

 

[Truett]

I use standard computer APC UPS units of the correct power. Remember VA is not watts for an AC circuit, only a DC circuit. Do not connect power amps to UPS units.

For the phase angle of a home AC circuit 300 watts is 500 VA. So your UPS will be specked in VA, but your processor will be specked in watts. I would get a unit over specked by 25%. So if your unit draws 1200 watts for instance then you should get a 2,500 VA UPS.

One other thing, get whole house surge protection installed at entry to your residence. If you can't do it at entry, then do it at the panel. Do not use surge protector strips. Doing at entry gives you the best protection and protects everything in your house. This is now code in many places now, and should be everywhere. That is actually the most important item to protect your gear. Whole house protection saved me a boat load of trouble last summer with a direct hit.

Do you have a recommendation for whole house surge systems? And with a whole house system would I still need a UPS for the AV processor?

 

[ryanosaur]

Do you have a recommendation for whole house surge systems? And with a whole house system would I still need a UPS for the AV processor?

The whole house surge protection will give you actual-better protection against power spikes and such. It will not prevent a computer processor from a sudden outage.
Two completely different issues.
If you don’t live somewhere with electrical storms and frequent lightning strikes but are subject to frequent outages, you could gamble on just the UPS.

For whole home surge protection, you need to get an electrician involved.

 

[Truett]

The whole house surge protection will give you actual-better protection against power spikes and such. It will not prevent a computer processor from a sudden outage.
Two completely different issues.
If you don’t live somewhere with electrical storms and frequent lightning strikes but are subject to frequent outages, you could gamble on just the UPS.

For whole home surge protection, you need to get an electrician involved.

We definitely have lightning. South Louisiana. So I should consider a whole house surge protector, and a ups. Right? Any brand recommendations?

 

[PENG]

We definitely have lightning. South Louisiana. So I should consider a whole house surge protector, and a ups. Right? Any brand recommendations?

You have a very expensive piece of AV preamp processor, so I would suggest you install a whole home unit such as the Siemens (I think I posted a link earlier in the other thread where someone asked similar question), but I would also install one locally at the wall outlet. For the wall outlet one, there are numerous choices, you should contact Trinnov and ask for their recommendations. I understand Trinnov's customer support is excellent.

Regardless of what Trinnov suggests though, please the whole home unit at the incoming panel is a must, since you are in an area where it is really needed.

 

[TLS Guy]

We definitely have lightning. South Louisiana. So I should consider a whole house surge protector, and a ups. Right? Any brand recommendations?

You will need the electrician to install you whole house surge protection. He will know what best to install in your house, given the layout of the meter and panel. If your meter is outside, that is the entry point and the optimal location for the whole house surge protection.

You do need a UPS with gear that expensive. I have used units from APC and had good results. I have used their units for 17 years now. I have five of their units installed here. There are three for the AV room, one in each of the 19"racks in that system, then I have one for the great room system and one for the family room system. Everything is run via UPS, including the TVs but not the power amps. Getting this right is crucial.

 

[PENG]

You will need the electrician to install you whole house surge protection.

Depending on the local rules and regulations, if he is qualified to do the work, he may be able to do it in his own house, legally. FYI, in Canada, and our electrical code follow NFPA and NEC's closely, one used to be allowed to do such work as long as it is for one's own residential home, but that was years ago and one still has to take out a permit and have the finished job inspected by the ESA (or Hydro).

In recent years, things got tightened up since around 2006 iirc, and I am not up to date on the latest. Not sure about what the rules are in the USA, I would assume it may be similar.

I only mention this because for most modern homes, install a whole house surge protection unit is an easy job and it very safe if one follows instruction and make sure the incoming switch is turn off. Many will be tempted to do it live for sure, to avoid shutting off everything in the house and have to use flash lights, but it is not for us to suggest "live work" on forums.

 

[highfigh]

Is there a way for the forum to count threads and initiate a pop up, to tell people to search for their questions that have already been asked hundreds of times?

 

[highfigh]

We definitely have lightning. South Louisiana. So I should consider a whole house surge protector, and a ups. Right? Any brand recommendations?

Lightning and the usual surges are two completely different problems.

Yes, get the whole house protection but use local protection, too- surges (voltage spikes) can come from sources inside of the building, too. UPS is for maintaining operation during brief outages.

 

[Speedskater]

There are basically three type of whole home protection units:
a] Installed inside the main breaker box. These have to be of the same mfg. & type as the box.
b] Mounted near the main breaker box. Some of the new high-tech units, will text you if there is a problem.
c] Installed inside the electric meter by the power company. Some are leased and some are sold.

 

[flyboylr45]

I use a Cyberpower CP1500PFCLCD. I have the Trinnov and the Kaleidescape connected to it. Just those things. It’ll give me time to power it down if the power goes out.

 

[TLS Guy]

Lightning and the usual surges are two completely different problems.

Yes, get the whole house protection but use local protection, too- surges (voltage spikes) can come from sources inside of the building, too. UPS is for maintaining operation during brief outages.

UPS units also protect from over and under voltage, and also are fast enough for a lot of surges.

 

[highfigh]

UPS units also protect from over and under voltage, and also are fast enough for a lot of surges.

Maybe- some are purely UPS and used as an add-on for surge protection in units that do a better job with surges than a consumer grade device.

 

[TLS Guy]

Maybe- some are purely UPS and used as an add-on for surge protection in units that do a better job with surges than a consumer grade device.

All my APC units do that. He needs to order smart UPS units from APC. They can and do, shave high voltage and boost low. That is an essential part of the engineering and specification of a high end installation.

 

[dlaloum]

For audio use, you need to check a few things on a UPS

1. It needs to be a pure sine wave UPS - ie: one that puts out a clean sine wave AC output
2. It needs to be Quiet (lots of UPS' have loud fans!)
3. Double conversion - that is to say, it converts to DC, and then back to AC, even when on mains power - thereby ensuring that any issues on the powerline are "left behind"
4. Capacity.... measured in VA (roughly speaking VA=80% Watts ) depends on your power amp draw... calculating this is complicated, and the label on the components often not meaningful! Different manufacturers calculate their power draw differently, a typical approach is 1/8th of max power draw, but there is no fixed standard - possibly a better way would be to get a power draw measurement tool, and drive your setup as hard as possible - then provide a reasonable margin above and beyond whatever it was drawing.

 

[TLS Guy]

For audio use, you need to check a few things on a UPS

1. It needs to be a pure sine wave UPS - ie: one that puts out a clean sine wave AC output
2. It needs to be Quiet (lots of UPS' have loud fans!)
3. Double conversion - that is to say, it converts to DC, and then back to AC, even when on mains power - thereby ensuring that any issues on the powerline are "left behind"
4. Capacity.... measured in VA (roughly speaking VA=80% Watts ) depends on your power amp draw... calculating this is complicated, and the label on the components often not meaningful! Different manufacturers calculate their power draw differently, a typical approach is 1/8th of max power draw, but there is no fixed standard - possibly a better way would be to get a power draw measurement tool, and drive your setup as hard as possible - then provide a reasonable margin above and beyond whatever it was drawing.

Who told you that load of cod's wallop?

You need to avoid those UPS units with inverters like the plague. They run hot, waste electricity and blow up. NEVER purchase one of those. They are unreliable overkill.