A waste of money???

[Edward56]

I finally splurged and purchased an “audiophile” headphone system…set it all up and immediately noticed that it sounded marginally better than what I hear when listening to Bose noise canceling headphones via my iPhone.

Buyers remorse or am I just so used to “mobile” headphones that I don’t know what I should be looking for in my home setup?


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[Trell]

You forgot to write what you bought.

 

[Edward56]

Ah yes….

Cambridge CXN 100
Schiit Lokius
McIntosh MHA200
Vandesail XLR cables

Streaming via Spotify and Tidal


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[Trell]

Ah yes….

Cambridge CXN 100
Schiit Lokius
McIntosh MHA200
Vandesail XLR cables

Streaming via Spotify and Tidal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I assume you bought new headphones as well, and what are they?

 

[isolar8001]

I assume you bought new headphones as well, and what are they?

Maybe in another 4 or 5 posts the truth will come out.

 

[Edward56]

I assume you bought new headphones as well, and what are they?

Yikes….yes left that one out…

Sennheiser HD 800 s

First day with new brain…sorry all!


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[Trell]

Yikes….yes left that one out…

Sennheiser HD 800 s

First day with new brain…sorry all!


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What you don't like is the tonality of your new headphones and that is very personal. Your new electronics is fine and not the cause of your dislike. Have you tried adjusting EQ to your taste with the Schiit Lokius? My guess is that you find the bass lacking,

Personally I would try get some other headphones that you like better, and sell/return the electronics and get the RME ADI-2 DAC FS instead.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I personally would not use any tubes in my audio path. My 2c - Keep the 800s Sens - they are really hi-end phones.
Get rid of
MHA200 and Lokius sh1t.
Replace with this headphone amp:
https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/755.html
or if you don't need the streaming part, just use all-in-one -> dac+amp to replace the rest of the electronics in this device:

Topping DX5 Review (DAC & HP Amp)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping DX5 balanced stereo DAC and (unbalanced) headphone amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $449. As you see the industrial design is all new. I like the large display and the feel of the volume control which is much...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Extra Cables are not needed unless the original ones are broken or if you need interconnects then use bluejeans

 

[Trell]

I personally would not use any tubes in my audio path. My 2c - Keep the 800s Sens - they are really hi-end phones.
Get rid of
MHA200 and Lokius sh1t.
Replace with this headphone amp:
https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/755.html
or if you don't need the streaming part, just use all-in-one -> dac+amp to replace the rest of the electronics in this device:

Topping DX5 Review (DAC & HP Amp)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping DX5 balanced stereo DAC and (unbalanced) headphone amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $449. As you see the industrial design is all new. I like the large display and the feel of the volume control which is much...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Extra Cables are not needed unless the original ones are broken or if you need interconnects then use bluejeans

I'd start with another pair of headphones and try them out, and then another, and so forth. Then buy the RMA ADI-2 DAC FS and sell the other electronics. As I wrote above.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yikes….yes left that one out…

Sennheiser HD 800 s

First day with new brain…sorry all!


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Sens are among the very best phones out there. They are what I use for editing tight edits. Having said that, headphone listening is not for everyone. In my experience people who can get a satisfying listening experience from headphones are in the minority. I personally can not enjoy a satisfactory experience from headphones.

In my days when I was making live orchestral and choral recordings I could never get the hang of getting the recording to my satisfaction via headphone monitoring. I know it is commonly done, but I defy anyone to get a really great recording monitoring from headphones. The reasons for this a complex and involve multiple disciplines. So in churches, for instance, I would set up my equipment in the sacristy and monitor via speakers. In the local concert hall, I set up in the green room. The orchestra members would crowd in afterwards to hear parts of the recording.

For most, if not all, to get a satisfactory audio experience requires speakers. From my perspective the bigger and more powerful the better. Classical music that I listen to has a huge dynamic range, and few systems are really up to giving a full concert level performance.

My feeling is that you probably will not be happy until you make the switch to speakers.

 

[davidscott]

Sens are among the very best phones out there. They are what I use for editing tight edits. Having said that, headphone listening is not for everyone. In my experience people who can get a satisfying listening experience from headphones are in the minority. I personally can not enjoy a satisfactory experience from headphones.

In my days when I was making live orchestral and choral recordings I could never get the hang of getting the recording to my satisfaction via headphone monitoring. I know it is commonly done, but I defy anyone to get a really great recording monitoring from headphones. The reasons for this a complex and involve multiple disciplines. So in churches, for instance, I would set up my equipment in the sacristy and monitor via speakers. In the local concert hall, I set up in the green room. The orchestra members would crowd in afterwards to hear parts of the recording.

For most, if not all, to get a satisfactory audio experience requires speakers. From my perspective the bigger and more powerful the better. Classical music that I listen to has a huge dynamic range, and few systems are really up to giving a full concert level performance.

My feeling is that you probably will not be happy until you make the switch to speakers.

Agreed. I am much happier listening to my Infinity tower speakers than any of my headphones. That said there can be a place when headphones are preferable.

 

[everettT]

Without EQing the bass as @Trell noted, it's easy to understand your dilemma. The midrange looks good for the most part.

 

[TLS Guy]

Without EQing the bass as @Trell noted, it's easy to understand your dilemma. The midrange looks good for the most part.

View attachment 71083

The physics of the connection to the ear canal of headphones, is still not clearly understood. One thing is certain that the FR of a headphone should not be a straight line. It is my understanding that Sennheiser use extensive listening tests to determine the optimal FR of their phones.

Because of the coupling between the auditory canal is going to be different from person to person, I think you have to listen to a variety of phones.
To me Senns usually come out on top. For me the listening experience of phones is significantly inferior to good speakers. The only phones I have ever heard that gives a good account of program are the Stax electrostatic phone. They are the world reference standard for headphones, but the cost a fortune, which you would expect given the complexity of design and manufacture.

This is a graph from Harmon in 2018 for headphones after listening tests.

This curve I think is different from the Senn reference curve. I have a strong suspicion that the variation in bass perception is the biggest area of difference between listeners. For me the Sennheiser suits me the best. I find the phones from others are too bass heavy for me as a rule.

Again, I would be interested to know what the OP has against speakers.

 

[Trell]

I have a strong suspicion that the variation in bass perception is the biggest area of difference between listeners.

And what I wrote.

 

[MrBoat]

I was sorely disappointed with the Beyerdynamics that reviewed well online. Perhaps I got a pair that someone else returned, don't know, but it was enough to turn me off to headphones pretty much completely.

Only time I enjoy headphones is when I have been completely without music for a spell or as a last resort. Like on a flight overseas, to where I can even get by with the ones that the airline provides. My speakers at home are too good and I listen every day so the difference is pretty much immediately noticeable. Finally, I'm a welder and I have a hood clamped to my head every day and any relief from that is good.

 

[Mullins54]

Sens are among the very best phones out there. They are what I use for editing tight edits. Having said that, headphone listening is not for everyone. In my experience people who can get a satisfying listening experience from headphones are in the minority. I personally can not enjoy a satisfactory experience from headphones.

In my days when I was making live orchestral and choral recordings I could never get the hang of getting the recording to my satisfaction via headphone monitoring. I know it is commonly done, but I defy anyone to get a really great recording monitoring from headphones. The reasons for this a complex and involve multiple disciplines. So in churches, for instance, I would set up my equipment in the sacristy and monitor via speakers. In the local concert hall, I set up in the green room. The orchestra members would crowd in afterwards to hear parts of the recording.

For most, if not all, to get a satisfactory audio experience requires speakers. From my perspective the bigger and more powerful the better. Classical music that I listen to has a huge dynamic range, and few systems are really up to giving a full concert level performance.

My feeling is that you probably will not be happy until you make the switch to speakers.

I totally get what you’re saying. Headphones just can’t replicate the depth and space of a proper speaker setup, especially for orchestral or classical music. I think a lot of people don’t realize that even high-end phones or headphones can’t give that full experience, and it’s kind of unavoidable if you want real dynamic range

 

[highfigh]

Sens are among the very best phones out there. They are what I use for editing tight edits. Having said that, headphone listening is not for everyone. In my experience people who can get a satisfying listening experience from headphones are in the minority. I personally can not enjoy a satisfactory experience from headphones.

In my days when I was making live orchestral and choral recordings I could never get the hang of getting the recording to my satisfaction via headphone monitoring. I know it is commonly done, but I defy anyone to get a really great recording monitoring from headphones. The reasons for this a complex and involve multiple disciplines. So in churches, for instance, I would set up my equipment in the sacristy and monitor via speakers. In the local concert hall, I set up in the green room. The orchestra members would crowd in afterwards to hear parts of the recording.

For most, if not all, to get a satisfactory audio experience requires speakers. From my perspective the bigger and more powerful the better. Classical music that I listen to has a huge dynamic range, and few systems are really up to giving a full concert level performance.

My feeling is that you probably will not be happy until you make the switch to speakers.

IMO, headphones can't capture a lot of details in the sound, especially the sense of spaciousness and the feeling from low frequencies. They just can't. However, if the mix is geared toward headphone listening, good results can be had, just not the same as when mized for good/great speakers.

I listened to some test pressings when one of my customers at the stereo store was choosing the order of the songs and some were mixed differently. He asked for my thoughts on the sound quality- as it turned out, we had heard many of the same details and described them in very similar ways. His remix of a live video of the band he had been a member won at least one Grammy for audio quality.

He had AKG headphones which, he noted, aren't the most accurate but he finds them accurate enough for mixing and they don't cause fatigue when listening for long periods.

 

[Kingnoob]

IMO, headphones can't capture a lot of details in the sound, especially the sense of spaciousness and the feeling from low frequencies. They just can't. However, if the mix is geared toward headphone listening, good results can be had, just not the same as when mized for good/great speakers.

I listened to some test pressings when one of my customers at the stereo store was choosing the order of the songs and some were mixed differently. He asked for my thoughts on the sound quality- as it turned out, we had heard many of the same details and described them in very similar ways. His remix of a live video of the band he had been a member won at least one Grammy for audio quality.

He had AKG headphones which, he noted, aren't the most accurate but he finds them accurate enough for mixing and they don't cause fatigue when listening for long periods.

My AKG240 struggle with bass heavy stuff . But I still use them occasionally. I’m using Sennheiser HD 350BT mostly for everything except Roku I can’t get them to connect, they have good bass but nothing compared to a subwoofer . Maybe some headphones can make sub bass but I’d imagine they are costly.??

 

[highfigh]

My AKG240 struggle with bass heavy stuff . But I still use them occasionally. I’m using Sennheiser HD 350BT mostly for everything except Roku I can’t get them to connect, they have good bass but nothing compared to a subwoofer . Maybe some headphones can make sub bass but I’d imagine they are costly.??

But they still sound very good.

The excursion needed for true deep bass with the fundamental frequencies shouldn't be possible with sealed headphones because ears can't handle it- they would need to use a tactile transducer so bone conduction can give the sensation. We don't hear those lowest frequencies via our eardrums, anyway, we feel them and it's transferred from the bones in our bodies to our auditory nerves.

 

[HenryCollins123]

That happens a lot! Home audiophile gear can sound subtle at first, especially if you’re used to boosted bass/treble from mobile headphones. Give it some time to break in, and maybe compare with familiar tracks at decent volume you might start noticing the clarity and detail you don’t get from the Bose.