A/V Receiver Bi-Amp?

sgtpepper9

sgtpepper9

Audioholic
I was looking through the manual for my receiver today and then mentioned that the front main speakers could be bi-amped by connecting another set of wires to the surround terminals. Would there be any benefit to doing this with an A/V receiver. Would the benefit be as much as using separates? It seems as if it would be as good as using separates but I was wondering if anyone who knew better than me could shed some light?
 
OttoMatic

OttoMatic

Senior Audioholic
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I was looking through the manual for my receiver today and then mentioned that the front main speakers could be bi-amped by connecting another set of wires to the surround terminals. Would there be any benefit to doing this with an A/V receiver. Would the benefit be as much as using separates? It seems as if it would be as good as using separates but I was wondering if anyone who knew better than me could shed some light?
There are numerous posts previously on this. Passive biamping is a waste of time usually. The crossover of the speaker is still in circuit. You have to have speakers that have access to both crossover filters. The amp connected to the High pass filter, just powers the tweeter, which takes minimal power. Occasionally you come across a speaker that is a three way, with the low pass, band pass crossover at 400 Hz. If when the straps are removed form the terminal binding posts, the lower terminal connect to the lower pass filter, and the upper terminals to the band pass and high pass filters, then there is some benefit, as the power available to the speaker is then significantly increased. However the results in my view, would not be as good as a more powerful amp with current delivery.
 
R

russ_l

Audioholic Intern
Biwiring - Biamping

Sgtpepper9 - My canned answer for biwiring below (so I don't have to retype it several times a year).

Biwiring can, but not always does, make a noticeable difference in sound quality. Biwiring has nothing to do with DC resistance of cables as some state here, but has to do with intermodulation effects. The large magnetic field produced by the bass signal modulates the weaker magnetic field produced by the midbass / treble signal thus causing distortion.

This effect can be mitigated by sending the bass signal down one wire, and the mid-bass / treble signal down a second wire, the TWO WIRES SEPERATED FROM EACH OTHER BY SEVERAL INCHES OR MORE. Just to clarify this point, at the frequency extremes the bass wire sees the inductive part of the crossover and only passes DC, no AC. At the other extreme, the midbass / treble wire sees the capacitive part of the crossover and only passes AC, no DC. Of course in reality, both wires see some low and high frequencies depending on the crossover slopes (first order, second order, etc.).

There are two prominent reasons why some people say biwiring does not work. One reason is the BUYWIRE reason; biwire cables where there is no separation between the wires (see above). The second reason has to do with the quality of the system itself. If the quality of the system is not up to the level of improvement added by biwiring, you’re not going to hear it. E.g., if you add a Wadia, Audio Research, full-up dCS stack, etc. CD player to a low or mid-fi system you’re not going to hear an improvement over the $99 Sony open box player (end of that argument).

From another prospective, with the exception of Mr. Bose (not high-end), Richard Vandersteen has probably sold more speakers total than any other high-end speaker manufacturer. His speakers are specifically set up for biwiring and insisted upon by he. Not a marketing tool, but a performance enhancement.

From my experience, my most recent two-channel setup was a TRIWIRED Hyperion system (938 speakers, Hyperion preamp and Hyperion monoblocks). Improvements were observed going from single wire, to biwire to triwire.

So, in your case you asked about biwiring, not biamping. Suggest a simple inexpensive test. Go over to RS or HD or Loews and pick up the correct length of cheap speaker cable. Remove your existing cables and listen with the new cable in the same configuration. Get a fix on the sound, and then reconfigure your receiver for biwiring. Listen again; cheap and you establish your own opinion of biwiring instead of getting everyone else's opinion, including mine.

As usual, IMHO all of the above.:)
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Sgtpepper9 - My canned answer for biwiring below (so I don't have to retype it several times a year).

Biwiring can, but not always does, make a noticeable difference in sound quality. Biwiring has nothing to do with DC resistance of cables as some state here, but has to do with intermodulation effects. The large magnetic field produced by the bass signal modulates the weaker magnetic field produced by the midbass / treble signal thus causing distortion.

This effect can be mitigated by sending the bass signal down one wire, and the mid-bass / treble signal down a second wire, the TWO WIRES SEPERATED FROM EACH OTHER BY SEVERAL INCHES OR MORE. Just to clarify this point, at the frequency extremes the bass wire sees the inductive part of the crossover and only passes DC, no AC. At the other extreme, the midbass / treble wire sees the capacitive part of the crossover and only passes AC, no DC. Of course in reality, both wires see some low and high frequencies depending on the crossover slopes (first order, second order, etc.).

There are two prominent reasons why some people say biwiring does not work. One reason is the BUYWIRE reason; biwire cables where there is no separation between the wires (see above). The second reason has to do with the quality of the system itself. If the quality of the system is not up to the level of improvement added by biwiring, you’re not going to hear it. E.g., if you add a Wadia, Audio Research, full-up dCS stack, etc. CD player to a low or mid-fi system you’re not going to hear an improvement over the $99 Sony open box player (end of that argument).

From another prospective, with the exception of Mr. Bose (not high-end), Richard Vandersteen has probably sold more speakers total than any other high-end speaker manufacturer. His speakers are specifically set up for biwiring and insisted upon by he. Not a marketing tool, but a performance enhancement.

From my experience, my most recent two-channel setup was a TRIWIRED Hyperion system (938 speakers, Hyperion preamp and Hyperion monoblocks). Improvements were observed going from single wire, to biwire to triwire.

So, in your case you asked about biwiring, not biamping. Suggest a simple inexpensive test. Go over to RS or HD or Loews and pick up the correct length of cheap speaker cable. Remove your existing cables and listen with the new cable in the same configuration. Get a fix on the sound, and then reconfigure your receiver for biwiring. Listen again; cheap and you establish your own opinion of biwiring instead of getting everyone else's opinion, including mine.

As usual, IMHO all of the above.:)
I'm sorry but Mr Vandersteen is wrong. There is no advantage to biwiring, and it can be shown mathematically. You CAN NOT have inter modulation distortion in a wire, or any passive electrical system. There is only one signal at any time in one wire, ata any instant. Fourier proved that years and years ago. Electrons will only move in one direction at an instant.

Biwiring or triwiring is pure marketing hype, and honest loudspeaker manufacturers provide one set of terminals.
 
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