A sub or a center channel

[nitin_mehra20]

Hey All,

In the process of building a sound system, I have already selected the following components:

Towers: Paradigm Studio 100 v4 (Most probably)
Pre/Pro: Onkyo SC855P
Amp: Emotiva XPA-3

After the above, I only have budget for either a sub or a center channel.

What should I go for first? (My usage is 50 HT : 50 Music)

 

[lsiberian]

Hey All,

In the process of building a sound system, I have already selected the following components:

Towers: Paradigm Studio 100 v4 (Most probably)
Pre/Pro: Onkyo SC855P
Amp: Emotiva XPA-3

After the above, I only have budget for either a sub or a center channel.

What should I go for first? (My usage is 50 HT : 50 Music)

I know we all want a great system, but honestly I think your pre/pro combo is overkill on your budget.

I think getting a nice AVR could save you some funds and get you money that could be devoted to a great sub.

Of course that pre/pro is very nice, but I think an Onkyo 805 or something similar would be a better pre/pro choice.

After that get a Sub.

wait to get an external amp later.

 

[j_garcia]

Why not step down to 60s and a good sub? To me, the 100s are for people who are going to run them without a sub for music. The 60s with a good amp can easily fill a large room. With a 50/50 setup, it is a hard call, but I err on the side of more impact, so I would say sub over center in that case.

I sort of agree on the pre/pro, but maybe you could just do a good AVR and the amp and get half of both worlds

 

[sgtpepper9]

I would definitely say a sub. Thats what I did. Got my mains and then the sub. I just got surrounds and don't even have a center channel. I have to say it sounds just fine without the center and I am in no rush to get one.

 

[markw]

General advice.

Subs are pretty much independent of the other speakers in the system.

i.e. any good sub will work with any speakers.

Speakers, at least the front three, should be "timbre matched". The only way to assure this is to get a center from the same make/series as your mains.

Since many manufacturers change their model lineup fairly often, I would recommend getting the front three at as close to the same time as possible.

A good sub can be added anytime.

 

[lsiberian]

Subs are pretty much independent of the other speakers in the system.

i.e. any good sub will work with any speakers.

Speakers, at least the front three, should be "timbre matched". The only way to assure this is to get a center from the same make/series as your mains.

Since many manufacturers change their model lineup fairly often, I would recommend getting the front three at as close to the same time as possible.

A good sub can be added anytime.

To add to the statement above. If you can find a center in your brand that has a midrange driver below the tweeter then that is best. I think the entire studio series of center is designed like this.

Another option is using a Studio 20 as a center. In a PJ setup another 60 could work too.

 

[Highbar]

I agree that your pre/pro and amp choices seem a bit overkill. I would stick with a good receiver and put some of that money into the speakers. If you do that and drop down to the 60's, which would be great for music and movies with a good sub, you would probably have enough to get both a good center and a nice sub That's what I would go for.

 

[nitin_mehra20]

I know we all want a great system, but honestly I think your pre/pro combo is overkill on your budget.

I think getting a nice AVR could save you some funds and get you money that could be devoted to a great sub.

I agree that your pre/pro and amp choices seem a bit overkill. I would stick with a good receiver and put some of that money into the speakers.

I agree!! That it is bit of an overkill. And honestly, I wasn't even going the separates route but I got the Onkyo SC885P refurb for 539 and the Amp for 529. So for a total of 1068, it is a pretty good deal and makes the setup future proof for some time at least

I would definitely say a sub. That's what I did. Got my mains and then the sub. I just got surrounds and don't even have a center channel. I have to say it sounds just fine without the center and I am in no rush to get one.

Does anyone else also share similar views??? I would then like to go this route and add surrounds later

On the other hand what am I missing if i omit the center channel??

 

[nitin_mehra20]

Also wanted to add that after

1100 for the AMP + pre/pro and 1.9K for the speakers, that leave me about 500-600 bucks to get a sub or a center channel.

Any suggestions?

 

[tn001d]

I would recommend getting a subwoofer. Believe it or not a center channel is not necessary. When the center channel is turned off, that signal is routed to the main speakers equally. If your speakers are properly placed your ears cant tell that the dialogue is not coming from the center. There was a recent article on CNET on omitting center channels. Not unless the all 3 front speakers are identical the center will never sound exactly the same as the front channels. Its very difficult to use a vertical speaker under a screen especially since you are using studio 100's.... anyway!

I would Strongly recommend getting a SVS PB12-NSD. Its on sale right now for $569 and would fit your budget. Shipping will be a little more since it weighs 70lbs and will depend on your zipcode.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm

Good Luck

PS: Down the road you can get the matching center from www.audiogon.com since the v4 line is being discontinued. Just search under paradigm and you will find great deals there.

 

[lsiberian]

I would recommend getting a subwoofer. Believe it or not a center channel is not necessary. When the center channel is turned off, that signal is routed to the main speakers equally. If your speakers are properly placed your ears cant tell that the dialogue is not coming from the center. There was a recent article on CNET on omitting center channels. Not unless the all 3 front speakers are identical the center will never sound exactly the same as the front channels. Its very difficult to use a vertical speaker under a screen especially since you are using studio 100's.... anyway!

I would Strongly recommend getting a SVS PB12-NSD. Its on sale right now for $569 and would fit your budget. Shipping will be a little more since it weighs 70lbs and will depend on your zipcode.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm

Good Luck

PS: Down the road you can get the matching center from www.audiogon.com since the v4 line is being discontinued. Just search under paradigm and you will find great deals there.

There benefits to having a center though. And I don't think one should just dismiss them. If you are watching movies alone or your seating positions are all centered then phantom works, but if you aren't centered or someone isn't centered then it's not usually well liked. This is the reason most philes have centers. Of course preferring a bookshelf/sub combo I don't have the size issue. I personally would suggest getting the 20s and getting 2 subs from SVS.. But that's my 2 cents.

 

[nitin_mehra20]

There benefits to having a center though. And I don't think one should just dismiss them. If you are watching movies alone or your seating positions are all centered then phantom works, but if you aren't centered or someone isn't centered then it's not usually well liked. This is the reason most philes have centers. Of course preferring a bookshelf/sub combo I don't have the size issue. I personally would suggest getting the 20s and getting 2 subs from SVS.. But that's my 2 cents.

What is the advantage of having two subs?? Like how does it affect the overall performance of the system??

 

[lsiberian]

What is the advantage of having two subs?? Like how does it affect the overall performance of the system??

2 subs even out the in room response and increase output. They also decrease localization effects.

 

[nitin_mehra20]

I would recommend getting a subwoofer. Believe it or not a center channel is not necessary. When the center channel is turned off, that signal is routed to the main speakers equally. If your speakers are properly placed your ears cant tell that the dialogue is not coming from the center. There was a recent article on CNET on omitting center channels. Not unless the all 3 front speakers are identical the center will never sound exactly the same as the front channels. Its very difficult to use a vertical speaker under a screen especially since you are using studio 100's.... anyway!

I would Strongly recommend getting a SVS PB12-NSD. Its on sale right now for $569 and would fit your budget. Shipping will be a little more since it weighs 70lbs and will depend on your zipcode.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm

Good Luck

PS: Down the road you can get the matching center from www.audiogon.com since the v4 line is being discontinued. Just search under paradigm and you will find great deals there.

So if i get this correctly, than unless there are a lot of ppl in the room, the lack of center channel will not affect the overall experience. And as you correctly mentioned, i can always buy a used center channel later.

How does the Velodyne minivee 10 compare to the subwoofer you have suggested?

 

[nitin_mehra20]

2 subs even out the in room response and increase output. They also decrease localization effects.

Makes sense!!!

However, I am trying to build my system incrementally so as to not break the bank and more importantly not freak out my wife She already complains that our house look like Circuit City

 

[tn001d]

Velodyne minivee 10 is well over your price range as listed. I dont know anything about it. The specs look great for its small size.

I am willing to bet the SVS will play louder and deeper than the Velodyne minivee 10

 

[lsiberian]

Makes sense!!!

However, I am trying to build my system incrementally so as to not break the bank and more importantly not freak out my wife She already complains that our house look like Circuit City

I can understand that. If it's for the living room. I suggest dual subs used as stand for the L R bookshelves. That way you take up the least floor space possible. What size room are we talking about here.

I also suggest using small satellites for surrounds in a living room. The aesthetics of a big surrounds is terrible usually. And one doesn't need full range from surrounds anyway. Subs are a big deal so be cautious. I suggest matching Sub sizes that match your front shelf's depth. And ones that match it's look.

A DIY option can be more flexible on this point, but it depends on the size constraints.

Living room speakers have different requirements than home theater room speakers. If you are mixing both. You will want to discuss options with your wife. I strongly suggest you talk about this with her. Let her have input on the sub you get. Even if you have to get a smaller one.

FYI Circuit City is bankrupt so for humor you might state that your looking more like Best Buy than Circuit city these days.

I think we should send you some retail shelving for your dvds.

 

[fredk]

For HT I would go for mains + sub. I would even agree with scaling back to the Studio 60 if you are budget constrained.

 

[nitin_mehra20]

For HT I would go for mains + sub. I would even agree with scaling back to the Studio 60 if you are budget constrained.

How much would a pair of 60s cost me??? And is there a difference between v4 and v5s??

 

[zeuiax]

I would go for a sub.