A strange idea?

[Slowman61]

Hello,

I'm upgrading my receiver this year and leaning toward the Denon 4310. I upgraded my front speakers to a pair of Kef XQ-40s last year. The fly in oil so to say is I want to bi amp them and keep a 7 speaker surround system. But with all the thinking of the what and how I want to arrange my room I kept bumping into minor problems and I finally got to the "wouldn't be great if" stage.

I'm wondering with the bandwidth available with 1.4 HDMI if there is a power amp on the market that has it as an hdmi input and then a hdmi output to pass on video to the tv?

So does it exsit, is it a great idea or did my dad lie to me about droping me on my head?

 

[highfigh]

Hello,

I'm upgrading my receiver this year and leaning toward the Denon 4310. I upgraded my front speakers to a pair of Kef XQ-40s last year. The fly in oil so to say is I want to bi amp them and keep a 7 speaker surround system. But with all the thinking of the what and how I want to arrange my room I kept bumping into minor problems and I finally got to the "wouldn't be great if" stage.

I'm wondering with the bandwidth available with 1.4 HDMI if there is a power amp on the market that has it as an hdmi input and then a hdmi output to pass on video to the tv?

So does it exsit, is it a great idea or did my dad lie to me about droping me on my head?

If you want HDMI 1.4, the 4310 won't do it. The 4311 does, though.
http://usa.denon.com/us/Product/Pages/Product-Detail.aspx?Catid=f234eea1-3300-4537-8f59-f6cd2f3441d6&SubId=0&ProductId=3578bd2c-3865-4cf6-8203-4988ca9045dd

 

[markw]

I'm wondering with the bandwidth available with 1.4 HDMI if there is a power amp on the market that has it as an hdmi input and then a hdmi output to pass on video to the tv?

Power amps are purely analog devices. All inputs are analog and all outputs are analog.

HDMI is digital and passes a totally different type of signal.

Never the twains* shall meet.

*the twains on twack twee.

 

[davidtwotrees]

Not to mention that passive bi amping is really a waste of time with NO discernable differences. Do a search and you'll see dozens of threads regarding the subject.

 

[zumbo]

I'm wondering with the bandwidth available with 1.4 HDMI if there is a power amp on the market that has it as an hdmi input and then a hdmi output to pass on video to the tv?

So does it exsit, is it a great idea or did my dad lie to me about droping me on my head?

There would be no reason to amplify the video portion of HDMI, and then send it to the tv.

If you took the vaginal path, there is a good chance there were head injuries.

As far as I know, 1.4 just adds 3D ability. No upgrade in audio quality over 1.3.

 

[PENG]

Not to mention that passive bi amping is really a waste of time with NO discernable differences. Do a search and you'll see dozens of threads regarding the subject.

I keep seeing this kind of response to people who ask or intend to biamp, (can't prove it either way) and I do not disagree with the claims that there will be no discernable differences. The thing is though, you can say the same about discernable differences between different amplifiers, DACs, preamps etc. People are going to believe what they choose to believe and may be they do have the golden ears to hear the difference.

 

[davidtwotrees]

I keep seeing this kind of response to people who ask or intend to biamp, (can't prove it either way) and I do not disagree with the claims that there will be no discernable differences. The thing is though, you can say the same about discernable differences between different amplifiers, DACs, preamps etc. People are going to believe what they choose to believe and may be they do have the golden ears to hear the difference.

He didn't quite say it, but with his 5.1/7.1 comment, I assume he meant he wants to use those last two surround channels to "biamp" his fronts. Do you honestly feel the little surround amps will provide any difference to his speakers?! I tried pumping a 250 wpc stereo amp into each of my fronts and it made no difference!!! NONE. Nada, zip. If a new poster is going down a slippery slope, should we encourage it!?
I'm being objective here. Logic. Common sense.

 

[avnetguy]

I'm wondering with the bandwidth available with 1.4 HDMI if there is a power amp on the market that has it as an hdmi input and then a hdmi output to pass on video to the tv?

I think what you're looking for is a receiver with pre-outs, as that is where you want to make your receiver to power amp to speakers connection and not the HDMI cable. Using external amplifiers will "lighter the load" off the receiver amps / power supply but you'll probably only notice a difference under sustained high output levels.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... People are going to believe what they choose to believe and may be they do have the golden ears to hear the difference.

Yes, but he is still very new and may be teachable.

 

[highfigh]

He didn't quite say it, but with his 5.1/7.1 comment, I assume he meant he wants to use those last two surround channels to "biamp" his fronts. Do you honestly feel the little surround amps will provide any difference to his speakers?! I tried pumping a 250 wpc stereo amp into each of my fronts and it made no difference!!! NONE. Nada, zip. If a new poster is going down a slippery slope, should we encourage it!?
I'm being objective here. Logic. Common sense.

"Little surround amps"? That and all of the other Denon receivers have 7 separate channels, and they're all the same. Define little, please.

 

[davidtwotrees]

"Little surround amps"? That and all of the other Denon receivers have 7 separate channels, and they're all the same. Define little, please.

Ok. Whatever those channels are putting out. 80w, 90w. Do you feel they will make a difference to the op in his rig biamping his speakers?

 

[markw]

Dunno how others feel, but my belief is that if all the amps are being driven off the same power supply, it's an exercise in futility. The more channels driven, the less power each one puts out.

Now, if each amp had it's own separate/independent power supply, then there's a possibility of a few more clean db of headroom.

Of course, YMMV.

 

[zumbo]

Dunno how others feel, but my belief is that if all the amps are being driven off the same power supply, it's an exercise in futility. The more channels driven, the less power each one puts out.

Now, if each amp had it's own separate/independent power supply, then there's a possibility of a few more clean db of headroom.

Of course, YMMV.

Yep.

An amp with a single power supply is going to do what it can do, whether it is 2-channels, or 5, or 7. In other words, if it is asked to deliver it's power to 5-channels, then the power is divided by 5. Not multiplied by.

 

[Slowman61]

thanks for the replies

Thanks, for all the input!

I should have used the term pass through rather than output that goes to the tv. Oknyo and Yamaha allow bi amping but you have to use the rear surrounds and would require an amp to run a 7.1 system. Denon and Marantz outputs are programable so you can use the front presence speaker which I don't plan on using.

I'm trying to plan it so I don't end up with the big pile of equipment under the tv and taming the cable monster that comes with it. So I was hoping that there was a single interconnect between a pre amp and the power amp. Just for placement ease.

It looks like the anwer will be to place the turntable and blueray player on the side for easy access and put the receiver under the tv. I'll just have to make a couple of cables, 3 out of 4 times I remember which end of a soldering iron to hold. And do a bit of running.

I was very much into music years ago and then I screwed up and started in with home theater when it was in it's infancy and got to chasing that. I should of kept my 2 channel gear and let it mature for a decade. I would of been happier and saved myself some money. So I'm giving myself 1 good upgrade a year. This year is the receiver and next year will be the turntable.

Thanks for your opinions and I'll read up on things.

 

[zumbo]

I am just confused here.

You speak of a receiver.

You speak of a pre-amp.

You speak of a power-amp.

And you speak of a simple solution.

AVR
An audio-video receiver has the pre-amp, power-amp, tuner, audio processing, and video processing all in one package.

While some websites call them receivers, the correct term is avr. Receiver should be a term that relates to a stereo(2-channels) receiver.

If there is a desire to add a power-amp to the avr later, be sure to choose an avr with pre-outs.
There is no HDMI connection between a pre-amp and power-amp.

The HDMI connection carries audio/video from the blu-ray, dvd, video game console, and cable/sat box to the avr. Once there, the avr processes the audio and video. Then, an HDMI connection is made to the tv monitor.

You can either connect speakers to the avr, or use a separate amp. If the choice is a separate amp, simple rca connections are made between the two. Speakers are then connected to the amp.

Most here feel bi-amping is pointless, due to the fact you are trying to do it with a single power supply within the avr/amp. I agree with this.

I do feel that bi-amping with separate amps can yield higher fidelity, and there are so many configurations, there would have to be some benefit. To that note, I say just invest in amplification that is up to the task on it's own.

 

[zumbo]

I would like to further add that a pre-amp should be defined as a 2-channel piece of equipment.

A pre-pro(surround processor) should be defined as a HT piece of equipment.

Neither have speaker connections, and must be connected to amplification.