A question on the hypothetical situation

[Vaughan Odendaa]

If cables from the speaker, let's assume, the left speaker touch each other (disconnected obviously) so that both positive and negative mingle whilst connected to a power amplifier, and the volume is set to nil, would it blow ?

I've heard this a lot. I've been told again and again that if speaker leads touch each other both positive and negative that the amp would blow. I just need clarification on this. And if the amp doesn't blow, can you explain why it doesn't.

And if the volume was turned to a reasonable volume and the leads touch each other, then what would happen ? I obviously haven't tried this and so I just wanted to know what the result would be. Thoughts, explanations would be appreciated.

Thanks.

--Sincerely,

 

[markw]

hypothetically speaking, the amp might cease to function.

The reasoning requires a certain amount of electronic theory be absorbed to understand. And, if you understood enough to understand the answer, you would not be asking this question.

Simply put, just don't short 'em out.

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

It might cease to function ? What do you mean ? So then there is no definite answer here ? There is no yes or no answer. More of a depends ? What does this depend on ?

I agree that a good understanding of electronics would help me to understand this better. But to those who have a background in electrical engineering or anyone with good knowledge in this field, what would happen if both positive and negative touched with the gain knob at nil (nothing).

If I had no volume, no material playing, but the speaker leads were touching with each other, would the amplifier blow. This I need to know. Please, opinions, explanations would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

--Sincerely,

 

[markw]

It depends on the amp

..and the volume setting has no bearing on the final outcome.

Some amps have better protection circuiry than others and you may get lucky and nothing may happen. ...or maybe not. It's your nickle.

And, you don't 'need" to know. you just "need" to know that many amps have met their fate when this was done and and most pepole simply avoid doing this as common practice, just like washing your hands when using the lavatory. It's cheap insurance.

Now, it's up to you if you want to tempt fate by trying it but generally, wise people simply learn from the mistakes of others.

If you really "need" to know, then either bone up on the needed subject matter or simply give it a try. It's your nickle.

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Are there any good books on this that would help to enlighten me on this ? Books that delve not too heavily in math and equations ? I need practical explanations to this.

Recommendations would be most appreciated.

--Sincerely,

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

The thing is, I don't want to try this. But I wanted to know if, as some people tell me, that amps can blow if the speaker leads touch, even if only briefly. There are so many myths in acoustics and in audio in general. So I wanted to know from the EE, or the other experts with a lot more experience than me what the answer would be.

But thank you for your thoughts.

--Sincerely,

 

[BMXTRIX]

It is a good question that I don't have an answer for. Since zero power is running through the leads, I don't believe it would cause an issue, but I sure as heck could be wrong.

I do know, that in most receivers I have worked with - and amplifiers - there is automatic circuitry that trips when a short is detected. The only thing you need to do is correct the short, unplug the receiver/amplifier, then plug it back in. Rotel amps will pop a fuse if this occurs, but no real harm is done to the amplifier. I would call this a vital feature of modern, quality receivers.

 

[mulester7]

.....Vaughan, I've done this, you can take both the positive and negative speaker wire leads from "ONE" amp section turned on and "cranked", and stick them in your mouth and drink a glass of water and never feel a thing....the reason you can do this is because the electricity bound for the speakers has been transformed into conductance or conductant flow....conversely, a huge problem arises when "two" seperate and independent amp sections are brought together through a common wiring.....

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Mulester7, well, hypothetically speaking, let's use a power amp. I have just disconnected the speaker leads from my speakers. The volume has been turned down but the amp is still on. If, by mistake, the cables, let's say the biwirable cables, with both positive and negative ends, touch each other.

The result ? Are you telling me that I shouldn't have anything to worry about ?

--Sincerely,

 

[mulester7]

Mulester7, well, hypothetically speaking, let's use a power amp. I have just disconnected the speaker leads from my speakers. The volume has been turned down but the amp is still on. If, by mistake, the cables, let's say the biwirable cables, with both positive and negative ends, touch each other.

The result ? Are you telling me that I shouldn't have anything to worry about ?

--Sincerely,

.....Vaughan, I just went to my system, turned it all on, chose cable TV, got all the speakers going moderately loud, took the pos and neg leads loose from a surround speaker, stuck them in my mouth for 5 seconds, felt nothing, then twisted the stripped copper wire of both of the leads together for about 10 seconds....no major fires to report, and no head melted....I don't see that bi-wiring should make any difference....problems do arise from paralleling two amp sections at a common connection, though......

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Mulester, thanks for your input ! I really appreciate it. Now are there any EE's around here ? I need to know the technical details involved here.

Perhaps I could get a more detailed explanation of what happens. Thanks a bunch for the input guys.

--Sincerely,

 

[Nomo]

.....Vaughan, I've done this, you can take both the positive and negative speaker wire leads from "ONE" amp section turned on and "cranked", and stick them in your mouth and drink a glass of water and never feel a thing

Mule,
Now that explains alot.

 

[mulester7]

Mule,
Now that explains alot.

.....well, I guess I left out the part about my being in traction for three days with my eyes permanently crossed....

 

[mulester7]

.....Vaughan, here's another finding....turn off all the equipment when working with audio rca's, just dropping the volume is not enough....a loud hummmm can erupt from working with rca's that can blow a speaker element....I blew up a woofer in one of my surrounds not too long after I had them by doing this....other times I've been lucky I guess and didn't ruin anything, but every time it happened, it was so loud the fish were swimming sideways in the aquarium....you can work with speaker wires all you want while the system is running, but turn everything off to work with audio rca's.....

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

you can work with speaker wires all you want while the system is running, but turn everything off to work with audio rca's....

Okay. So then are you telling me that speaker leads touching each other is not really going to do any harm to the power amplifier ?

--Sincerely,

 

[mulester7]

Okay. So then are you telling me that speaker leads touching each other is not really going to do any harm to the power amplifier ?

--Sincerely,

.....Vaughn, in a post above, I told you what I did at about 3p today....I took the speaker wire leads from a surround speaker, that was playing fairly loudly, just took the wires loose at the speaker, and put them in my mouth for about 5 seconds laying on my spitty tongue....I guess I could have been holding a mouthful of salt-water to really nail it, but oh well....then, I took the negative and positive leads of the wire, and held the ends together smashing one into the other, remember the Mac amp is still kicking....smashed them together for about 10 seconds....nothing to report on either test....the speaker-wire was being powered by one channel of a Mac MC126 rated to output 80 watts.....nothing, either test....not sure if an MC126 has any form of an autoformer, but it wouldn't matter, that's just speaker protection taking a surge to ground.....home-system speaker wire carries alternating current from the amp that's in a transformed state called "conductance".....Vaughn, that's all I know, WmAx will have to take it further.....

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

So the conductance will prevent damage if the speaker leads touch each other while the amp is on ? I heard from another member that the volume or gain control does not play a part in this. I don't know why that is.

WmAx, where are you ?

--Sincerely,

 

[mulester7]

So the conductance will prevent damage if the speaker leads touch each other while the amp is on ? I heard from another member that the volume or gain control does not play a part in this. I don't know why that is.

WmAx, where are you ?

--Sincerely,

.....Vaughan, did the other member tell you that touching speaker leads together whether the volume knob is up or not will blow the amp?....I guess I better go to questions....no offense, but I keep making statements telling you what I did yesterday, and you keep responding sorta' asking me if I really did that....I don't mean that smart-aleck either....the only amp I know of that the internals are not grounded to the chassis is the Acoustic Reality "ICE" amps....looks like a silver triangle, you've probably seen them....you connect one wire and accidently touch the chassis or housing with the other lead trying to connect it, with the amp on, and it's fry-city....that's a different thing from touching the leads together after the speaker wire is connected to the amp, though.....

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Sorry if it seems like I'm just asking the same questions over and over. I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. That's all.

I don't know that much about conductance. In fact I don't know what it is. So if you could just briefly explain to me what that is I'll really appreciate it.

Thank you for putting up with me.

--Sincerely,

 

[Audioholics]

you can take both the positive and negative speaker wire leads from "ONE" amp section turned on and "cranked", and stick them in your mouth and drink a glass of water and never feel a thing....

Suddenly it all makes sense... lol