A present for my wife.

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Oh I can't wait. Will it be so much less or more than your other Marantz prepro? How much your wife is involved, meh.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi




I bought a Marantz AV 30 for my wife's system in our great room. Yes, my wife always calls it her system. She is recovering from a total knee replacement and doing well. Her system had developed a few gremlins in the last couple of weeks. Specifically a hum for a few minutes after switch on and then a pretty big thump at switch off. The Marantz AV 7701 is now nearly 15 years old and has had untold hours of use. I suspect the issue is a power supply smoothing cap fault, these units are known for this. If this turns out to be the case I can probably repair it.

Since I have been so impressed with the Marantz AV 10, I thought i should replace it with the AV30. Scott at Hi-Fi Sound, gave me an $800 discount on the AV30. There are very limited choices in the AVP range now. And the three Marantz units are probably the best available. Other options are Anthem or Steinway. The latter a ridiculous price. I think the Marantz units made in Shirakawa are the best choice. I have been really impressed with my AV 10. The AV 7706 is now discontinued. I have one in 2.2 service in the family room. The SNR is really not good enough. However, I mainly use that unit for watching the news and in the winter for fireside listening. It is fine for that, as long as it stays functional and I am not over optimistic about that.

Anyhow, I copied the settings of the 7701 and set the AV 30 up identically. I have not done any measurements yet. My wife is happy. One thing is obvious immediately, that the picture on the Panny plasma is markedly improved. My wife commented on that immediately.

I have not had a chance to thoroughly evaluated the sound. Despite copying the speaker settings the bass seems a bit louder. My wife again noted that without prompting. I will investigate this further tomorrow. I will use Omni mic and see what the situation is.

The whole point of this is to review the sorry state of affairs in AV.

The market is littered with AVRs with more channels than most can use. AVPS are all multichannel.

Lots of rooms are completely unsuitable for more than 3.1. There is no way you could put more then a 3.1 system in our great room. It is a huge space, with bass leakage going up the staircase. It takes serious power to fill the space.

However, that 3.1 in wall system sounds incredibly good and really fills the space with dynamic sound. That TL sub produces more than bass.

My point is that the industry is not providing what a lot of people would like, and there only option is often some type of sound bar.

Marantz have a two channel AVR with two sub outputs and 75 watts to each 2 channels, but that is a pretty meagre offering.

Denon offer a 2 channel AVR, 100 watts per channel, but no sub connection.

I feel sure those damn marketing clowns are at the bottom of this. Got to have lots of channels, so we can sell more speakers. Wrong! You are just steering potential customers to purchase a sound bar.

I am laboring this point, as the system that creates most interest and enquires to replicate is the in wall system. First it is not just good for an in wall system. It fills that whole space easily with very high quality audio. It takes no floor space and creates zero clutter in our main living space.

That system gets more use than any other here by a substantial margin. When it started giving trouble my wife was very afraid she would be without it. During her recovery from her knee replacement she was pretty much 'glued' to it for the first 2 to 3 weeks. She is making rapid progress now and started driving again five days ago.

I personally never intended to have any system in that space. I thought he AV room and the family room system would be sufficient. How wrong I was. I had to design it at break neck speed, as I was busy with the construction of the house. So I had to furiously "burn the midnight oil" to meet construction deadlines. I was seriously worried whether it would be any good. It turned out to be a really good system which we both enjoy. I think there are wider lessons to be learned about high quality AV in the home from this design. Currently the industry is on the wrong foot, as far as I'm concerned.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Warlord
all well and good, I for one fall into the 'meager' crowd with respect to HT multi-channel interests. A 5.1 set up is plenty good enough and all I care about. I'm more focused on my 2 channel music interests.

Regardless, hope Momma enjoys here new toy ! ;)
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
all well and good, I for one fall into the 'meager' crowd with respect to HT multi-channel interests. A 5.1 set up is plenty good enough and all I care about. I'm more focused on my 2 channel music interests.

Regardless, hope Momma enjoys here new toy ! ;)
She is watching golf right now.

I do have an update.

I was very careful to keep speaker levels identical to what I had on the 7701. I photographed all the 7701 settings before disinstalling. However, the sub output seemed higher especially the deep bass output. Male speech was a little unnatural. So I adjusted the sub output to where it sounded correct. I had to lower the sub output a whole 4db before it sounded right and speech sounded like it did previously.

However, the bass sounded better quality than before.

So, I went to yesterday's organ recital from Truro Cathedral on YouTube. This organ is one of Henry Willis's masterpieces and this instrument has been preserved, by not being unduly mucked about, less than most. One thing Henry Willis is known for is very deep powerful bass from his 32' pipes. He would have been a huge subwoofer "bass head".


Now on the 7701, the last one third of the last octave was a little reduced in output, but not with this AV30. The deepest notes are deep and loud. You would never guess that large space was being filled with one 10" woofer. The bass was not only loud and deep but very accurate.

One thing I have learned that good organ videos like the one above are a very good was to asses bass and especially its evenness. If you watch the organists feet on the organ pedals when the 32' pipes are sounding, it is a good way to asses the evenness and depth of your bass.

One thing I have leaned is that transmission line loading of sub woofers, is way superior to any other loading. It is enormously superior. I could feel my chest vibrate and even articles in the room. It does not take a lot of power to power TL subs either. Not only that but you don't have to pepper subs all over the place to get even coverage. This phenomenon has been known to organ builders for centuries. Pipes seem to fill a space evenly unlike an electronic organ. I don't think this phenomenon of pipes is well understood.

I suspect this improvement going to these new high end AVPs from Marantz is related to the sub crossover. In can't be FR as that is not significantly changed. I suspect the reason is better phase alignment in the digital crossovers. These new AVPs have a new chip to manage the crossover, and I strongly suspect that the phase response is better. You can not solve this problem with analog crossovers, but digital crossovers bring the prospect of more ideal phase response at crossover. This strengthens the argument for active speakers.

The improvement in SQ in the inwall system is greater than in the studio. I think this is because the AV room as much gentler crossover slopes, and the bass section is only half section analog and first order. So the SQ. in the AV room has been improved a little with the AV 10 and I have been unsure why. However the inwall system has full crossovers on the three speakers to sub at 150 Hz. I have found this reduces the interference of wall reflections from the flush mounted speakers. So, the benefit of a better phase response in the AVP 30 crossover, which I feel it must have would be much more audible. Having to reduce the sub level would be further evidence of a better phase response.

I have been puzzled by the improved SQ, in the AV room over the 7706, and I think I now know the answer. A better sub crossover would definitely increase clarity and detail above sub range.

I have to say the build quality of the AV 10 and AV 30 is truly something to behold. They come at a steep price and if they also have longevity the price will be more than justified.

My wife is not going out for extended periods yet, and she does not tolerate the sound of speaker measuring. However I hope to get more data on that in wall system in the not too distant future.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Warlord
Your video brought back memories of the mighty Wanamaker pipe organ here in Philly. One of the worlds largest I believe.............
 
little wing

little wing

Audioholic General
Your video brought back memories of the mighty Wanamaker pipe organ here in Philly. One of the worlds largest I believe.............
Wow, Wanamakers. You just brought back memories of my grandparents taking me and my brother there every Christmas season to see the show and here the pipeorgan.
I miss Philly..
 
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