A possible jump into projectorland...

[cbraver]

I'd like to start by saying the fact that I'm entertaining getting a projector is all jostenmeat's fault.

I'm considering getting a projector for my winter theater project. I was only looking at LCDs and plasmas, but now this is in the runnings.

My throw distance should be about 14-foot, and I'll be sitting maybe 11 or 12-foot away. A 96-inch diagonal 16:9 screen from Carada seems to make the most sense at under 700 bucks.

I want to keep my budget under 3,000 (including screen, mounting brackets, etc.), and have a few concerns.

First, I'd need to run a long HDMI cable from the front to the back of the room, or my speaker cables from the back to the front of the room depending on where I put my rack. The floors are wood, and the apartment is rented, so I would want to find some way to hide those cables that doesn't look tacky. Any suggestions? This is actually one of the major concerns I have with moving to a projector.

Second, how big should I go? My viewing distance would be about 11-ft, and if I'm going with a projector I'd like it to be big enough for an immersive feeling, but I also don't want to get sick like I've seen in another thread here. The key is that I play videogames, and the theatrics in Metal Gear Solid can be very intense even on a moderately sized screen. Do I need to limit my screen size a bit for it to not be overwhelming? What is the delay like on a projector?

What are projectors like when there is light in the room? I know the blacks go bad, but if I just want some TV in the background is some light okay? I like in Florida, so there is lots of sunshine. I'm getting blackout shades for my new place, so, it's not really an issue when I'm in movie mode.

Also, I know my screen size will depend on the projector too, but how sensitive will it be if I move or something?

Thanks guys!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think you have to get the brightest projector with one of the best picture quality your money will allow, and I don't think you can beat the Epson 1080UB projector.

http://www.saveoncomps.com/epson-powerlite-home-cinema-1080-projector-p-1154.html

Projectorreview.com got 1500 Lumens (with "adequately" natural colors) from the 1080UB, which comes out to be 31.3 FL. If you were to get a 2.2 Gain screen, this would give it a 69 FL brightness! THX standard for commercial movie theaters is 16 FL, and most theaters don't even have that much brightness!

I think it is a well known FACT that Carada makes the best screen for your money value, but also consider FocuPix, which was reviewed by Clint:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/projectors/projector-screens/focupix-hdvio-electric-rf

http://www.htdepot.com/SearchResults.asp?cat=34&RefineBy_Manufacturer=&RefineBy_Price=&RefineBy_93=&RefineBy_87=&RefineBy_1=9&RefineBy_36=&Search=

I think a 110" 16:9 screen is a good size.

As far as hiding your cables? I think the best solution for me was to make the cables look cool, neat, and pretty to begin with so that I don't have to hide them.

For example, I buy WHITE cables from BJC, instead of the typical black cables. Then I braid all of them. So my speaker cables are braided. My white HDMI cable going up to my projector is also braided with 2 white extension cords.

 

[jostenmeat]

OK.

"First":

IMHO, an HDMI cable running alongside the wall, on the floor doesn't look that bad. This is subjective, but this is what I'll say: When anyone comes over and sees the most beautiful picture they have ever seen, at any time, at any place, including the IMAX, in their entire life . . . the black wire is the last thing they will notice. They will notice your seating, paintings, room treatments, and the food stuck in your teeth before they ever will notice that cable. This is what I have observed in any case.

I just had another virgin visitor to my home cinema. He said "You are totally %*#@^! crazy". That was a first! I've only had "You are completely insane", or " You are totally insane", or "Holy #%&!", or *diabolical laughter*

Second:

Please get your screen last. Don't make the unfortunately common mistake of some persons by either getting them at the same time, or even the screen before the PJ, as did AcuDefTechGuy. He suffered for it.

Please, please, please get the PJ first. Spend at least a few days playing with the pic on the blank wall. I myself took a whole week before ordering. It's not as easy to decide as you might think.

For gaming, please specifically ask David Gaudreau, and others. David was the one who getting nauseous, but yet he recently was raving about how amazing games looked with his PS3. IIRC, Clint DeBoer might've said that he prefers the larger screen for movies, and smaller screen for gaming. So, YMMV.

Ambient Light = Death for PJ picture. Its how it is. Sorta. I would seriously consider a High Power screen such as the one I use. Very affordable, very good at shedding ambient light, and some think its the bang for buck PQ regardless. Main compromises are narrower viewing angle (but I still fit 8 seats), and impossible to be acoustically transparent (which is $$$$ anyways).

The Epson 1080UB has been noted to be of excellent value. However, I would definitely take what ADTG says with some salt. The bulb is 170w and it appears this unit comes decently far enough away from a calibrated state. Tom Huffman at AVS has said to expect only 250-300 lumens in a calibrated state. Jason Turk, as well as Tom, have said that the QC is really all over the board with these units, particularly with panel alignment and white uniformity. Jason said he has had extensive experiences with these PJs, so much so that you cannot use other's settings for your own model.

That all being said, the Epson is still a value buster.

If you do get a high power screen, and its too bright for you at night, you can always add a filter to the PJ for night viewing.

However, due to costs of bulbs I would seriously consider my idea of the cheap flat panel behind it. Two bulbs are about the same value as a cheap flat panel. That being said, I just recently bought my first warranty in forever. Mack, that's been around 70 years, offered an AVS powerbuy. $260 got me 6 yrs on PJ, and 5 years on bulb, replete with two free replacements. Yeah, $260 is the grand total. Unfortunately, some azzholes took advantage and got bulbs for free without needing it, and sold them for great profit. So now you have to send in your old bulb. Anyways, I'm pretty sure the sale is over, but contact Mack, see what they say, and tell them jostenmeat sent ya.

When I send you a pic of the treatments sometime next week hopefully, I'll also send you a far-field (12-14 ft away) pic of the HDMI cable that runs along the wall, on the side. Its very subtle looking IMO. Well, that's just me.

Whew. OK. Just to get you all worked up my dear cbraver, here are some pics to salivate over. You'll see how there is no comparison in immersion. Pics are of a Samsung 71 series 46" LCD and 133" screen:

Wheeeewwww . . . . . . . . .


-jostenmeat

 

[cbraver]

OK.

"First":

IMHO, an HDMI cable running alongside the wall, on the floor doesn't look that bad. This is subjective, but this is what I'll say: When anyone comes over and sees the most beautiful picture they have ever seen, at any time, at any place, including the IMAX, in their entire life . . . the black wire is the last thing they will notice. They will notice your seating, paintings, room treatments, and the food stuck in your teeth before they ever will notice that cable. This is what I have observed in any case.

If I did front projection, then I'd try to make the front of my room as clean as possible. The M&K S-150s, even with their simplistic design, actually look pretty snazzy on their M&K stands. Plus in Miami you can get away with such things a little easier than most places. Cabling, I'll just have to see. I think where I place the rack might influence it as well. HDMI cable is a lot easier to run neatly than speaker wire in my experience.

Second:

Please get your screen last. Don't make the unfortunately common mistake of some persons by either getting them at the same time, or even the screen before the PJ, as did AcuDefTechGuy. He suffered for it.

Please, please, please get the PJ first. Spend at least a few days playing with the pic on the blank wall. I myself took a whole week before ordering. It's not as easy to decide as you might think.

That's a comforting idea I didn't think of. I'll for sure get the PJ first and then worry about a screen. One of my concerns was that I'd mismatch them. Sizing it up on the wall first would make things easier. Or at least buying a screen with a good return policy if it doesn't work.

For gaming, please specifically ask David Gaudreau, and others. David was the one who getting nauseous, but yet he recently was raving about how amazing games looked with his PS3. IIRC, Clint DeBoer might've said that he prefers the larger screen for movies, and smaller screen for gaming. So, YMMV.

I will say I've never had a problem with nausia, but some of these new videogames (*cough* Metal Gear Solid 4 *cough*) have cinematics, flashes and camera work that can absolutely make your head spin.

Ambient Light = Death for PJ picture. Its how it is. Sorta. I would seriously consider a High Power screen such as the one I use. Very affordable, very good at shedding ambient light, and some think its the bang for buck PQ regardless. Main compromises are narrower viewing angle (but I still fit 8 seats), and impossible to be acoustically transparent (which is $$$$ anyways).

Does Carada sell them?

The Epson 1080UB has been noted to be of excellent value. However, I would definitely take what ADTG says with some salt. The bulb is 170w and it appears this unit comes decently far enough away from a calibrated state. Tom Huffman at AVS has said to expect only 250-300 lumens in a calibrated state. Jason Turk, as well as Tom, have said that the QC is really all over the board with these units, particularly with panel alignment and white uniformity. Jason said he has had extensive experiences with these PJs, so much so that you cannot use other's settings for your own model.

That all being said, the Epson is still a value buster.

If you do get a high power screen, and its too bright for you at night, you can always add a filter to the PJ for night viewing.

However, due to costs of bulbs I would seriously consider my idea of the cheap flat panel behind it. Two bulbs are about the same value as a cheap flat panel. That being said, I just recently bought my first warranty in forever. Mack, that's been around 70 years, offered an AVS powerbuy. $260 got me 6 yrs on PJ, and 5 years on bulb, replete with two free replacements. Yeah, $260 is the grand total. Unfortunately, some azzholes took advantage and got bulbs for free without needing it, and sold them for great profit. So now you have to send in your old bulb. Anyways, I'm pretty sure the sale is over, but contact Mack, see what they say, and tell them jostenmeat sent ya.

The PJ itself I'm going to see what kind of deals I can get at work. My audio/video distributor might be able to find me a nice one that would otherwise be out of my budget. I'm going to call him on Monday and see if he has any options for me.

How long do the bulbs last? I'm not into having a cheap LCD behind it. If it costs me 200 bucks a year to just use my projector instead, I'm alright with that. If I'm going to spend the money I might as well use it and just factor bulb cost into it.

When I send you a pic of the treatments sometime next week hopefully, I'll also send you a far-field (12-14 ft away) pic of the HDMI cable that runs along the wall, on the side. Its very subtle looking IMO. Well, that's just me.

I'd like to see that. I've been roaming the Internet for layout ideas and such, and so many projectors are in dedicated rooms that have nothing to do with what I'm trying to acomplish. Maybe that's because what I'm trying to accomplish is crazy, but, ...haha...who knows.

Whew. OK. Just to get you all worked up my dear cbraver, here are some pics to salivate over. You'll see how there is no comparison in immersion. Pics are of a Samsung 71 series 46" LCD and 133" screen:

Wheeeewwww . . . . . . . . .


-jostenmeat

That is absolutely sick.

 

[jostenmeat]

If I did front projection, then I'd try to make the front of my room as clean as possible.

I agree. Depending on the size of screen, and how high you mount it, please consider three identical tower/bookshelves. This kind of setup has been my #1 rant all year long.

That's a comforting idea I didn't think of. I'll for sure get the PJ first and then worry about a screen. One of my concerns was that I'd mismatch them. Sizing it up on the wall first would make things easier. Or at least buying a screen with a good return policy if it doesn't work.

Yeah. Screens need a lot of research just by themselves. I would definitely stay away from Elite Powergain, and perhaps some of their other models as well.

Does Carada sell them?

No idea man. Mine is DaLite 159". Only comes manual in that size. Even with CSR added, and custom ordered in black, it was still less than 1k shipped. Picture is absolutely stunning. The best picture that anyone among my friends or family have ever seen. PJ + 159" = less than $4k. A great time to jump into the projection world. The screen is emulsified with retro-reflective glass beads. Very heavy. It took three people to mount it.

The PJ itself I'm going to see what kind of deals I can get at work. My audio/video distributor might be able to find me a nice one that would otherwise be out of my budget. I'm going to call him on Monday and see if he has any options for me.

Very cool.

How long do the bulbs last? I'm not into having a cheap LCD behind it. If it costs me 200 bucks a year to just use my projector instead, I'm alright with that. If I'm going to spend the money I might as well use it and just factor bulb cost into it.

Depends on the bulb/PJ. I almost asked you in my last post, didn't, so I will now: What is the % breakdown of gaming/tv/movies? How many hours a day? See, mine is 100.00% movies. I don't even have TV broadcasting, and don't own a gaming machine. I think* my bulb would be $400, and I should expect at least 800 good hours. Many are changing out at a little over 1k hours, and a couple of very rare exceptions do they keep on the order of 2k hours. So, if you are gaming, tv viewing, movie watching, those hours might add up very quickly. Depending, of course.

I'd like to see that. I've been roaming the Internet for layout ideas and such, and so many projectors are in dedicated rooms that have nothing to do with what I'm trying to acomplish. Maybe that's because what I'm trying to accomplish is crazy, but, ...haha...who knows.

Sure thang. I will just ask you that you don't share the pics with others for now.

That is absolutely sick.

Yep.

 

[cbraver]

I agree. Depending on the size of screen, and how high you mount it, please consider three identical tower/bookshelves. This kind of setup has been my #1 rant all year long.

Believe it or not, I'm going to keep it 2.1. That's where I'm truely nuts, but, I kind of enjoy its simplicity in an apartment. The two M&K S-150s have trademdous clarity and output on their own. The Onkyo Pro is only because they don't make a two channel that has all those features. Even though I game and enjoy movies, music is still my most common media.

If I can design it right and it works, projector is probably the way I'll go. If I can't figure out how to mount the projector in the back without making it ugly/hoekey ... then I'll have to suffer with a 50" LCD or something haha.

Depends on the bulb/PJ. I almost asked you in my last post, didn't, so I will now: What is the % breakdown of gaming/tv/movies? How many hours a day? See, mine is 100.00% movies. I don't even have TV broadcasting, and don't own a gaming machine. I think* my bulb would be $400, and I should expect at least 800 good hours. Many are changing out at a little over 1k hours, and a couple of very rare exceptions do they keep on the order of 2k hours. So, if you are gaming, tv viewing, movie watching, those hours might add up very quickly. Depending, of course.

40% movies, 50% gaming, 10% TV.... maybe more TV and less gaming during college football season. If a bulb lasted 800-1000 hours, I'd probably get a year and a half out of it. Maybe even more, I've never really logged my TV time. Where it seems to add up is gaming, I'll chill on a Sunday and play for like 5 hours straight, haha. I'll probably end up using it even more now that I'm getting out of college and won't be partying much anymore. i.e. it's saturday night/sunday morning right now and I'm typing on a forum ... kind of thing, haha. So, I suspect my hours will go up.

Sure thang. I will just ask you that you don't share the pics with others for now.

You got it.

 

[BMXTRIX]

General recommendations:

1. Do not ever put A/V gear at the front of a room with a front projection setup. Your projector isn't there, and all those blinky lights are distracting from the screen. Not to knock the setup pictured above, but those lights are completely distracting IMO to the image on screen and there is no reason whatsoever to have the gear there. It's an old fashioned concept built on cabling being directly under the 20" TV sitting right above it.

2. www.electriduct.com has wire raceways which you can stick onto walls/ceilings with tape to hide cables pretty nicely if you aren't able to run inside of walls.

3. If you get a projector you can mount at the back of the room, then you can litterally put it on a shelf, run cabling straight down the BACK of the room and to equipment located at the back of the room as well. Nothing really to hide.

4. At 11-12 feet I would be thinking about 106"-120" for the screen. 96" is to small.

5. Ambient light kills displays - period. www.avintegrated.com/lighting.html discusses directional lighting and how ambient light makes front projection worthless.

6. While the 1080UB is a great option, it's still running about $2,500 which is harsh on your budget. The Sanyo Z2000 may be a great way to go for a fair bit less. Likewise, the BenQ W5000 is getting pretty solid reviews, even if BenQ isn't one of my favorite companies.

7. Carada makes some great screens. Still am not sure there is a better value for the money out there. But, a Criterion, in Brilliant White, at 110" is going to set you back about $900 shipped.

8. Cables - if you really want to make the most of your money for cabling, www.monoprice.com is the first and last stop for what you need. Period. I like Blue Jeans Cable, and I like other providers, but I've yet to see cables actually outperform for the extra money you are charged.

9. Lamps - Lamps are rated to 2,000 hours, but typically warrantied for 90 hours. Clearly, to expect 2,000 hours when the manufacturer does not would be foolish. But, 1,000 hours is reasonable, and if you get more, even a lot more, then consider it money well saved.

10. Warranties: I consider lamp warranties, which you can get from most eTailers a fairly smart decision. Projector? Not so much. But, the lamp warranty you get from Projector People is pretty solid I would think. 2 or 3 years for about 125 bucks or so. Not bad.

11. Budget: Your budget needs to meet your needs. When you start knowing that a good 1080p projector is between $2,000 and $3,000 and that the smaller screen is $700+, then you've already blown a $3,000 budget. If you get another $1,000 for everything, then it gives you a ton more flexibility across the board. It lets you get everything you want, and some things you should really have, and not feel bad about going way over on a budget that was to low to begin with. My number one pet peeve is when people wonder why there aren't any $300 projectors with 3,000 lumens, 13 HDMI inputs, 4x zoom, 200% lens shift, and full wireless powering capabilities. While that's clearly an exageration, it still applies. Your budget will define your room if you let it and it is better to save a bit longer for what you want, rather than trying to slide by with so-so components. Heck, I would live without the screen for a bit to get everything else within budget, then maybe buy that in a few months if possible.

 

[jostenmeat]

Believe it or not, I'm going to keep it 2.1. That's where I'm truely nuts, but, I kind of enjoy its simplicity in an apartment. The two M&K S-150s have trademdous clarity and output on their own. The Onkyo Pro is only because they don't make a two channel that has all those features. Even though I game and enjoy movies, music is still my most common media.

Honestly, I don't think you are nuts at all. I often see the old HTIB that got me started with this insanity that is now at my bro's place. Often, depending on what is playing, I set it to stereo even with TV programming. Depending on who is there, they can't believe that less is more. Of course, they have no idea how bad a horiz MTM is for multiple couches, nor the reflective issues from the glass top AV stand, nor how helpful it is to have the bookshelf mains be vertical and free in space further from boundaries.

If I can design it right and it works, projector is probably the way I'll go. If I can't figure out how to mount the projector in the back without making it ugly/hoekey ... then I'll have to suffer with a 50" LCD or something haha.

Where there is a will, there is a way. I'm confident you can figure something out. FWIW, the very first home PJ setup had it where I could not see the PJ at all unless I walk up to the display wall (no screen, its a fully ghetto setup). When I look up, its this square mirror that is not too many inches below the ceiling. However, higher mounting will make HP screens undesirable, as on-axis is key to retro-reflective properties.

40% movies, 50% gaming, 10% TV.... maybe more TV and less gaming during college football season. If a bulb lasted 800-1000 hours, I'd probably get a year and a half out of it. Maybe even more, I've never really logged my TV time. Where it seems to add up is gaming, I'll chill on a Sunday and play for like 5 hours straight, haha. I'll probably end up using it even more now that I'm getting out of college and won't be partying much anymore. i.e. it's saturday night/sunday morning right now and I'm typing on a forum ... kind of thing, haha. So, I suspect my hours will go up.

As BMX has already alluded to, ambient light is very bad. Im still not quite sure why you are against a cheap flat panel behind. You've got dual HDMI outs. Monoprice is so affordable its silly. Reduced bulb costs over a few years makes that flat panel a freebie. You always have the option of a better pic in ambient light vs a washed out larger pic.

General recommendations:

1. Do not ever put A/V gear at the front of a room with a front projection setup. Your projector isn't there, and all those blinky lights are distracting from the screen. Not to knock the setup pictured above, but those lights are completely distracting IMO to the image on screen and there is no reason whatsoever to have the gear there. It's an old fashioned concept built on cabling being directly under the 20" TV sitting right above it.

+1. I've been ranting along these lines even for folks with a flat panel lately.

2. www.electriduct.com has wire raceways which you can stick onto walls/ceilings with tape to hide cables pretty nicely if you aren't able to run inside of walls.

Never ran into this site. Thanks.

3. If you get a projector you can mount at the back of the room, then you can litterally put it on a shelf, run cabling straight down the BACK of the room and to equipment located at the back of the room as well. Nothing really to hide.

+1.

4. At 11-12 feet I would be thinking about 106"-120" for the screen. 96" is to small.

+1. If it was me, I am certain I would go 120" from 12 ft. After all, my present viewing angle is even slightly greater than this. Personal preference is everything.

5. Ambient light kills displays - period. www.avintegrated.com/lighting.html discusses directional lighting and how ambient light makes front projection worthless.

+1. One would want to control ambient light to the point where you cannot see your own hand in front of your face with all the lights off. 99% of my movie viewing is at night. I think twice ever in the afternoon. Even with thick curtains over blinds on the windows is there still some ambient light.

6. While the 1080UB is a great option, it's still running about $2,500 which is harsh on your budget. The Sanyo Z2000 may be a great way to go for a fair bit less. Likewise, the BenQ W5000 is getting pretty solid reviews, even if BenQ isn't one of my favorite companies.

BMX, I have a feeling he can swing it. He just picked up the Onkyo 885. He uses Dynaudio speakers. He is budgeting for treatments. I have a feeling he has a got a big sweet tooth for nice AV gear.

7. Carada makes some great screens. Still am not sure there is a better value for the money out there. But, a Criterion, in Brilliant White, at 110" is going to set you back about $900 shipped.

No comment, except that I defer.

8. Cables - if you really want to make the most of your money for cabling, www.monoprice.com is the first and last stop for what you need. Period. I like Blue Jeans Cable, and I like other providers, but I've yet to see cables actually outperform for the extra money you are charged.

+1. I am a big Monoprice fanboy.

0. Warranties: I consider lamp warranties, which you can get from most eTailers a fairly smart decision. Projector? Not so much. But, the lamp warranty you get from Projector People is pretty solid I would think. 2 or 3 years for about 125 bucks or so. Not bad.

Good to know.

1. Budget: Your budget needs to meet your needs. When you start knowing that a good 1080p projector is between $2,000 and $3,000 and that the smaller screen is $700+, then you've already blown a $3,000 budget. If you get another $1,000 for everything, then it gives you a ton more flexibility across the board. It lets you get everything you want, and some things you should really have, and not feel bad about going way over on a budget that was to low to begin with. My number one pet peeve is when people wonder why there aren't any $300 projectors with 3,000 lumens, 13 HDMI inputs, 4x zoom, 200% lens shift, and full wireless powering capabilities. While that's clearly an exageration, it still applies. Your budget will define your room if you let it and it is better to save a bit longer for what you want, rather than trying to slide by with so-so components. Heck, I would live without the screen for a bit to get everything else within budget, then maybe buy that in a few months if possible.

See #6.


+1 x 5 = +5.

 

[cbraver]

General recommendations:

1. Do not ever put A/V gear at the front of a room with a front projection setup. Your projector isn't there, and all those blinky lights are distracting from the screen. Not to knock the setup pictured above, but those lights are completely distracting IMO to the image on screen and there is no reason whatsoever to have the gear there. It's an old fashioned concept built on cabling being directly under the 20" TV sitting right above it.

Nod. I can put the rack anywhere, really. I'm done with putting my components under or right next to my screen regardless of if I go to an LCD, plasma or front projection.

2. www.electriduct.com has wire raceways which you can stick onto walls/ceilings with tape to hide cables pretty nicely if you aren't able to run inside of walls.

Bookmarked. I'll be using that regardless! Nice find.

3. If you get a projector you can mount at the back of the room, then you can litterally put it on a shelf, run cabling straight down the BACK of the room and to equipment located at the back of the room as well. Nothing really to hide./quote]

Well, speaker wire going to the front I'd need to hide. It's a loft style apartment, and the window goes floor to ceiling along the wall I'd need to pass the cable by. It doesn't really leave a lot of room for that without it looking like I'm running cables down it.

Also, I think projectors on shelves look tacky in a non-dedicated room. I'm searching around for some cabinetry where I could hide the projector in or something (with fans, of course).

5. Ambient light kills displays - period. www.avintegrated.com/lighting.html discusses directional lighting and how ambient light makes front projection worthless.

Hm.

6. While the 1080UB is a great option, it's still running about $2,500 which is harsh on your budget. The Sanyo Z2000 may be a great way to go for a fair bit less. Likewise, the BenQ W5000 is getting pretty solid reviews, even if BenQ isn't one of my favorite companies.

Yeah, my budget is semi flexible, so, I might have to raise it if I find this is the route I want to go. Truthfully, just looking at TVs, I might need to raise my budget as well. A nice 60" LCD TV is still fairly expensive.

8. Cables - if you really want to make the most of your money for cabling, www.monoprice.com is the first and last stop for what you need. Period. I like Blue Jeans Cable, and I like other providers, but I've yet to see cables actually outperform for the extra money you are charged.

Yeah, in my Middle Atlantic I'm going to use mostly Hosa and Comprehensive, but I'll need to buy some pretty speaker cables to run to my stands.

11. Budget: Your budget needs to meet your needs. When you start knowing that a good 1080p projector is between $2,000 and $3,000 and that the smaller screen is $700+, then you've already blown a $3,000 budget. If you get another $1,000 for everything, then it gives you a ton more flexibility across the board. It lets you get everything you want, and some things you should really have, and not feel bad about going way over on a budget that was to low to begin with. My number one pet peeve is when people wonder why there aren't any $300 projectors with 3,000 lumens, 13 HDMI inputs, 4x zoom, 200% lens shift, and full wireless powering capabilities. While that's clearly an exageration, it still applies. Your budget will define your room if you let it and it is better to save a bit longer for what you want, rather than trying to slide by with so-so components. Heck, I would live without the screen for a bit to get everything else within budget, then maybe buy that in a few months if possible.

I agree completely. The budget would need to raise with equipment, but also with furnishings (i.e. if I design or buy some sort of interesting way to house the projector). It might be that I buy a nice LCD TV to start, and then if that isn't doing it for me in a year I'll start budgetting for an automatic screen (the manual ones aren't for me).

As BMX has already alluded to, ambient light is very bad. Im still not quite sure why you are against a cheap flat panel behind. You've got dual HDMI outs. Monoprice is so affordable its silly. Reduced bulb costs over a few years makes that flat panel a freebie. You always have the option of a better pic in ambient light vs a washed out larger pic.

I'm against the cheap flatpanel because cheap flatpanels look cheap, haha.

+1. One would want to control ambient light to the point where you cannot see your own hand in front of your face with all the lights off. 99% of my movie viewing is at night. I think twice ever in the afternoon. Even with thick curtains over blinds on the windows is there still some ambient light.

Nod, I have blackout shades in there. But, I like my bay view too... haha.

BMX, I have a feeling he can swing it. He just picked up the Onkyo 885. He uses Dynaudio speakers. He is budgeting for treatments. I have a feeling he has a got a big sweet tooth for nice AV gear.

Haha, yeah. I've got a good idea of what I want to do electronically in my new pad, but haven't the slightest idea of things like ... a bed... or ... a desk... or kitchenware ... but don't worry, the electronics are coming right along! haha.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Just an FYI: When I did my setup I wanted to do just front projection, and in my old house it worked fine. Then I moved into an apartment with a large sliding glass window and it just didn't work. I ended up with a cheapie 50" plasma (Sampo) which still works, but never looked great.

Early this year, I upgraded to a 60" Pioneer 6070HD. Not as nice as the brand new Kuros, but still, benchmark level quality with top shelf blacks, color, etc. Under $3,000 for that plasma - at 60" - and you can still find it around that price. Understand, 1080p is worthless at over 2x the screen width, which is where you are for sure, so you would get no real benefit going 1080p, even with a 60" display.

Not that I'm trying to talk you out of front projection, because my projector is still up on my ceiling, and my 106" motorized screen drops down from the ceiling with a touch of the remote. But, for day to day viewing, the 60" Pioneer really has taken over.

 

[cbraver]

Just an FYI: When I did my setup I wanted to do just front projection, and in my old house it worked fine. Then I moved into an apartment with a large sliding glass window and it just didn't work. I ended up with a cheapie 50" plasma (Sampo) which still works, but never looked great.

Early this year, I upgraded to a 60" Pioneer 6070HD. Not as nice as the brand new Kuros, but still, benchmark level quality with top shelf blacks, color, etc. Under $3,000 for that plasma - at 60" - and you can still find it around that price. Understand, 1080p is worthless at over 2x the screen width, which is where you are for sure, so you would get no real benefit going 1080p, even with a 60" display.

Not that I'm trying to talk you out of front projection, because my projector is still up on my ceiling, and my 106" motorized screen drops down from the ceiling with a touch of the remote. But, for day to day viewing, the 60" Pioneer really has taken over.

Nod. About 3/5 of the front of my place is glass floor to ceiling. It will have motorized blackouts, but part of the nice aspect of living on the water in Miami Beach is being able to look at the water! I may go with a 60 or 65 LCD and then get a projector if it seems to make sense later on. 60 or 65 is still a big TV for my seating distance (which can be between 14-10ft, depending how I want to set things up). If I put the couch at 11ft, it's almost a 24-deg peripheral ... which I would imagine will be pretty immersive compared to the garbage I have now. It wouldn't be like 110" ... but, it would be big.