Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Today's topic is new roofing material. This is NOT A RANT, it's a good story.

I'm getting a new roof on my 26-year-old house, as I write this morning. When my house was built, in 1993, the home owners association's (HOA) architect required that all houses have cedar shake roofs. The fine print in the HOA rules said other 'natural' products such as slate was also permitted, but I never saw any house with a slate roof in the neighborhood. Cedar shake roofs are expensive – they look nice when they're new, but they quickly turn dark with exposure to sun and humidity – so they soon become nothing special looking. In my opinion, cedar shakes look kind of ratty unless they're less than a year old.

If I understand correctly, cedar roofs are more common in the dry climate of the southwest US. Even though they easily burn, they stand up well to the dry climate, lasting as long as 30-35 years. In the east (I'm in the central Atlantic coast, Maryland) cedar shake roofs don't do well. The high humidity allows mildew, fungus, and even moss to grow. My roof required a new coat of 'cedar oil' after cleaning (much like stripping a wooden deck) after about 15 years. It was expensive. In more recent years, my roof needed yearly repair, replacing aged or broken shakes. Again, it was expensive. And, of course, new cedar from Canada has become a lot more expensive lately. After 26 years, it became clear that I needed to do something major about my roof. So replacing it with new cedar was not high on my list.

Other people in my neighborhood had the same thoughts as me about avoiding cedar roofs. They fought the early battles with the HOA, and won approval for several new synthetic roof materials. I'm glad for their efforts. Personally, I see nothing wrong with asphalt shingles. They can look fine & last a long time – they plain work. Besides, who really stares at roofs for long? But I never really believed such a simple solution would be 'permitted' by certain misguided people in my HOA. I found there are good synthetic cedar shakes and synthetic slate shingles available, and that these were now approved by the HOA. (Synthetic is an environmentally correct term that avoids saying 'plastic', ahem, recycled plastic/rubber.) So, last November, I decided to go with synthetic slate made by a company called EcoStar. Up close, it doesn't look like real slate, but at a distance, on top of your house, it looks pretty good. It's much lighter in weight, and doesn't cost anything close to a real slate roof. And, I strongly doubt if my roof could hold that kind of weight.

So, I signed a contract with a local roofer, and paid 1/3rd down ($10,000 :eek:) with the rest due when the job was finished. The roofing contractor ordered the stuff from the EcoStar factory in Holland NY, and I waited. The stuff, EcoStar Niagara Majestic Slate Wide-Spec (60% 14" wide & 40% 12" wide) in Midnight Gray arrived on Monday, Dec 23, two days before Christmas.

As luck would have it, the weather this week is clear and nicely warm for December. No rain was forecast until this Sunday, Dec 29. The crew, 6 guys, started yesterday, Thursday Dec 26, the day after Christmas, at 7:30 am sharp. They tore off the old cedar shakes, black felt paper, down to the wooden flake board. One or two sheets needed replacing – the rest were OK :). They quickly installed something called 'winter guard' on the lower 4' of roofs, valleys & surrounding any roof penetrations such as chimney’s, skylights and vent pipes (required by code); new synthetic roofing underlayment on the rest of roof deck, installed with plastic cap staples. They finished that part of the work the first day, leaving the roof 'moisture resistant' overnight. They also cleaned up & hauled away much of the old roof debris, and put the new shingles in place, ready to hit the ground running the next day.

Today, they arrived at 7:10 am, still pretty dark on a cloudy morning in late December & got started 7:30 sharp. They're using stainless steel pneumatic roofing nails to attach the new shingles; while installing new flashing & pipe collars. When they're done, they'll put in new rain gutters, and new galvanized snow guards. We don't get much snow around here, not like before global warming, but the synthetic slate lets snow slide off much easier than cedar shakes. Snow guards are cheap and easy solution.

Right now, it's 9:24 am, and they're hard at work. It's noisy because of the generators for the pneumatic nail guns. And because these roofers are working hard. I expect the new shingles will be on the roof by today, or no later than tomorrow at mid-day. The rain gutters & snow guards will come Monday. They all speak Spanish, but they're licensed & bonded, and wear safety harnesses. Their foreman does speak English with me. Most of all, they're fully aware that the neighbors are watching, and that word-of-mouth is the best way to get new business. Even though the work isn't yet done, I'm happy so far.

Ever since I approached retirement age (I retired 3 years ago) it's been my goal to pay off the mortgage (done in 2015), replace all the windows (done in 2014), replace or fix doors (done in 2018), and finally to get my roof squared away. It's expensive, but I'm happy with the progress.
 
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Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm here to remind you that Friday is for the men and you better go get some beer.

Trust me on this one. Ice it down too.
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
I'm glad it worked out for you. But $30,000 for a new roof? You must live in a mansion.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I'm here to remind you that Friday is for the men and you better go get some beer.

Trust me on this one. Ice it down too.
Beer run done. Ice cold. I told them in my best Spanglish, "todo el mundo quiere Sabado", everybody likes Saturday. I couldn't remember how to say Friday night. It got smiles all around :D.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I'm glad it worked out for you. But $30,000 for a new roof? You must live in a mansion.
My house is about 2700 sq ft total, make that 1400 sq ft for a roof, 2 stories tall, plus a stand-alone 2 car garage.

The synthetic slate shingles come with a 50-year warranty on the individual shingles. They must cost more than typical asphalt shingles.

It's always hard for people to understand that real estate prices, plus taxes, vary a lot in different places around the county. My house is nice, but far from a mansion. In other parts of the county the same price, in today's market, might buy a real mansion or two.
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
1577468991197.jpeg


Just do this. They're still using sod and grass in Norway. I've heard though that the special roof lawn mower costs $30,000. :D
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Beer run done.
Good for you.

I recently took some classes that the union wants us to have under our belts. The instructor mentioned that people still die being catapulted out of those boom lifts because they're not tied in and they mentioned how those harnesses can cut your privates off if they're too loose. I said I leave the harness nice and loose and then I don't tie in so I don't have to worry about castration.

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ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
View attachment 32941

Just do this. They're still using sod and grass in Norway. I've heard though that the special roof lawn mower costs $30,000. :D
Get a battery powered line trimmer; save $29800!

But then you might still need a lift and a safety harness. If this takes hold, we'll see if Global Harness Castration rates rise. o_O:p
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Good for you.

I recently took some classes that the union wants us to have under our belts. The instructor mentioned that people still die being catapulted out of those boom lifts because they're not tied in and they mentioned how those harnesses can cut your privates off if they're too loose. I said I leave the harness nice and loose and then I don't tie in so I don't have to worry about castration.

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LOL!

So how long did it take them to figure out your name isn't really Steve?
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord


That's me up there, BTW. I figured I'd take the training now that I'm done working on one of those. I was getting a view of the area but the other guy didn't want to go any further.

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Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
My house is about 2700 sq ft total, make that 1400 sq ft for a roof, 2 stories tall, plus a stand-alone 2 car garage.

The synthetic slate shingles come with a 50-year warranty on the individual shingles. They must cost more than typical asphalt shingles.

It's always hard for people to understand that real estate prices, plus taxes, vary a lot in different places around the county. My house is nice, but far from a mansion. In other parts of the county the same price, in today's market, might buy a real mansion or two.
Actually, it sounds like you got a pretty good deal for $30K.

Cedar shake roofs are actually pretty common up and down the west coast, including, for example, in Portland, OR. I hear you about the regular repair and maintenance costs. I've sworn off cedar roofs completely, after owning two homes with them, but now I have the ultimate in a PITA roof style - a flat roof. So dumb...

Cedar shakes do have advantages on the west coast for earthquakes and fires. The most preferred roofing material is concrete tile, and in the event of a quake or a big fire the heavyweight roof can collapse on you, and you'll almost surely die. The shakes just burn up in case of fire, and, if dry, they don't weigh much and are far safer for big quakes. In California asphalt shingles are not seen all that often, and the hot sun eats them up anyway.

In climates with a lot of wetness, like Portland, shingle roofs also have a lot of maintenance. Moss often builds up on the roof, and every year or two you need to have a crew come out with some magic low-pressure power washer and clean the moss off, and then they spread this powder stuff infused with copper to slow future moss growth. Depending on how complicated, large, and high up your roof is the cleaning and preventative stuff can cost into four figures.

Personally, if I had to choose a favorite roofing material for a sloped roof it would be the new synthetic shakes made from old tires. Even a big hail storm doesn't hurt them. Flat concrete tile is my runner-up. (The curved mission-style stuff breaks too easily.) Asphalt and cedar shakes aren't on my personal preferred list.
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
What about metal roofing? I've heard it is supposed to last the life of the house.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
What about metal roofing? I've heard it is supposed to last the life of the house.
I like the look of metal roofs myself. From some folks around here who have them they sing a chorus about two problems. The first is noise. A heavy rain storm can be a very noisy experience, and everyone says it gets old after a while. The second problem, at least here in the desert southwest, is that they can be dented by large hail. On the plus side metal roofs won't be penetrated by large hail, so you avoid water damage, but pock marks can lower the value of the home. I'm told the repair consists of replacing the panels, a substantial effort, and probably involves painting too. Some of the custom homes in our area have metal roofs, and I think they look great.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Personally, if I had to choose a favorite roofing material for a sloped roof it would be the new synthetic shakes made from old tires. Even a big hail storm doesn't hurt them. Flat concrete tile is my runner-up. (The curved mission-style stuff breaks too easily.) Asphalt and cedar shakes aren't on my personal preferred list.
My new roof is made of a material called Starloy™, a mix of tire rubber and plastic, 80% of which is recycled.

Another maker of synthetic slate & shakes is DaVinci, in Kansas. Apparently, their product, although good, is not made with recycled materials. In bids for my roof, DaVinci roofing cost about 10% more than EcoStar.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
D@mn, KEW, that's like throwing the Ace of Spades to trump the Heart suit! ;)
I spent 14 years in the Appalachians of Western NC and saw some of the interesting solutions that come out of a (comparatively) isolated society!
One of my favorites was when I needed a new muffler and one of the local boys told me to show up the second Tuesday morning (once a month) at the empty lot downtown next to the drug store!
I did and was treated to an operation like in this video which was brought in on a trailer behind a pickup truck and was setup in the empty lot:
I have to admit holding my breath as my Jetta GLI was driven up and back down, but $25 for a new muffler fully installed is hard to beat. I doubt the muffler was OEM (they only had 4 mufflers to choose from ... and used the only one that would fit my car), but it lasted another 70,000 miles until I sold the car at 200,000 miles and I never noticed any problems with performance!

Edit: I think the local shops kind of admired their resourcefulness - kind of "the saga of a smart, entrepreneurial man with a welder". Unless your car was under warranty, they would suggest using these guys, and they weren't about to compete on price! Oh! and they didn't waste time driving the car up and down the way the guys in the video did. This was very routine! They had me back on the road with a welded-in muffler within 15 minutes of when they started!
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I have TV and FM radio antennas in my attic. Metal (aluminum) roofs give you a shielded attic. No reception.
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
New roof, so far at ~2:30 pm. From 2nd floor window, view of kitchen extension at back of house, and further back, garage.
1577476444195.jpeg
 
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