A bit underwhelmed...

[itschris]

I don't know... maybe I've just been in a bad mood for a few months but I don't see or read anything in the HT world that has gotten me too terribly excited.

It seems pretty much a "faceplate upgrade" on most things. I'm still waiting for bigger LCD's and plasmas, home theater that doesn't require tons of tinkering, remotes that are good looking/affordable/and work, speakers that are something more than big rectangle boxes, etc.

There's so much of the same out there... not a lot of stand out stuff or it seems that there's a lot of stuff that's close... but not quite there yet.

I just went to SAMs this weekend and bought a new tv for the bedroom. I bought a Sony 40" because it fit in the amoire... no other reason. I got a second 40" Toshiba because that one fit my daughter's amoire... again... no other reason. I went to BB as well, but not a whole lot stood out. The picture on both tv's are nice and I don't think I'd spend a dollar more for any tv of that size. I believe the biggest reason people in the past chose not to buy big tv's was because they were mammoth. I remember my first 16x9 was Mits diamond rptv and it sat close to 3 ft from the wall. Now that you can just hang these things on the wall, there's little reason not to have a much larger tv with 55" being a minimum. They should be working to bring the price down on that size and concentrate on making bigger displays in the 60, 65", and greater sizes for those setups where a projecter just isn't going to work. My neighbor got a 42 inch LCD 6 months to replace his 36" tube he had for so long. He got the 42 because number-wise, it seemed so much bigger. Now that it's on his wall, and he's used to it, he's pissed he didn't get a bigger screen.

I'm still rambling...clearly I am still in a bad mood... I am actually trying to keep my blather to a minimum lately because of my foul mindset.

 

[GlocksRock]

At least you can save money this way.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

An affordable 70" plasma is what we need.

 

[Davemcc]

I think I'm in the same boat as you Chris. I haven't seen much of anything lately that piques my interest. Stuff I like is either way too expensive or not much of an upgrade, not that I'm looking to buy anything anyway.

 

[markw]

I hear ya!

There's no earth-shaking, ground-breaking changes in AV that makes me want to crack open my wallet and dust off the credit card for major purchases.

It's not like when DVD's with Dolby Digital/DTS came out to replace VHS tapes with Dolby Surround.

All I've seen for the past few years is "feature creep", where a few more goodies that don't appreciably improve anything is added in order to coax people to spend money.

I have DD DPLII, and DTS. I can live without DPLIIx.

I don't have room for more speakers, even though my receiver can handle them.

My stuff plays loud enough, clear enough, and goes deep enough for the room I'm in.

I have HDTV but I'm not totally sold on Blu-ray yet. Good ole DVD does a pretty fine job with the proper up-conversion for my failing eyes.

I do my video switching via the TV so I don't have to worry about the receiver kerfutzing with the signal.

I DID just pick up a Denon 1940 DVD/SACD player to replace a non-working two year-old Toshiba unit (grumble), but I got it for $90 and an looking at some 52" LCD HDTV's for around $1200, though.

 

[lsiberian]

I'm the opposite, but I just graduated from college and have really finally been able to enter into the audio world. Plus i'm trying to dive in the deep end with DIY and all sorts of crazy gizmos.

Plus I'm too busy to sit and think about it.

You could always take up a new hobby. I hear puzzles are fun.

 

[speakerman39]

Chris, I have to agree things seem a bit stale at the moment. It always seems like the developers enjoy keeping "the carrot" so to speak in front of our faces. I have learned that the grass is not always greener on the other side if you know what I mean. That is, biting the carrot does not always yield much, if any, improvement. Who knows though, something new and exciting may just be around the corner. Lord I sure hope so.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[Kai]

Wow I am a bit shocked at this thread.
Perhaps we have hit a bit of a peak in the video world right now buy jeez if you look at the past 2 measly years and the changes in the tv world you should be amazed.
You can now buy a 50" plasma tv for just over 1K...Cripes when I bought my LG 50pc3d 28 months ago I spent 2K and felt I was getting a great deal. Now that same/newer model goes for less than $1500...less on sale.
It seems we have hit the top of the hill for plasma but that is not a surprise. It has been around for awhile technology wise and we are seeing or beginning to see the next phase of tv technology. LCD's have come down in price dramatically and the quality has improved equally.
I am not surprised that over 50" tv's have not really dropped in price. There just is not enough of a call for them to be produced in a number that would drop prices. 50" or less is just about right for the average house. Few have a room large enough or can dedicate such space for a larger tv.

Sound, multi-channel, has improved as well though I am not sure dramatically enough compared to the marketing. Perhaps that is just my way of saying I am waffling on buying a new receiver that handles the new codecs and am trying to justify it by what I just said. Perhaps lol. However the possibilities that the new codecs offer is pretty dramatic via the new cabling...which seguays(sp) into the new cabling...hdmi...It is so easy for those new to the HT world to just connect a cable or two and have the latest/greatest audio/video available all at a reasonable cost.
I do not think much tinkering is needed at all for the basic home theatre...I bet htib is the biggest seller amongst the hoi poloi by a long shot...it is basically "plug-n-play". Those that buy a "real" receiver are more than happy and actually want to "fiddle" and "tweak" their system. Half the fun is fiddling about...to quote a famous song in a famous album...to see what happens. The new receivers offer quite a bit of tinkering to those that want it or "plug-n-play" or nearly so for those that don't.

I come from the time when I was amazed after connecting an FM converter to my car back in 1973 and had honest to God FM in my car. Then a freakin' 8 track tape player...could it be any better?

We are at a crossroads and I am excited to see where it goes over the next few years. Todays gear offers amazing prices, values and features to the average person. I do worry that in the rush to offer new features, in the audio world, at lower prices the manufacturers will cut corners in areas that the average htib'er would not notice but those of us, even at my low/modest end, that love audio will see our interest and excitement diminish.
I hope not.

 

[markw]

I'm the opposite, but I just graduated from college and have really finally been able to enter into the audio world. Plus i'm trying to dive in the deep end with DIY and all sorts of crazy gizmos.

Then this is a fine time for you. If you're starting from scratch you've got a plethora of options that are available in lower tiers than ever before. If you choose carefuly, your mid-level receiver can have features that were only available in upper-tier units previously. But, once you pounce I doubt you'll be replacing receivers every six months, will you?

You could always take up a new hobby. I hear puzzles are fun.

Nah. Life itself is puzzle enough.

I've been in this hobby since the early 60's and I do like to keep up with things, even if I'm not gonna run out and buy everything I read about. I don't enjoy spending money for marginal performance improvements. I do enjoy listening to my music and watching movies (in that order) with clarity that wasn't available when I was in your shoes.

...but one of my favorite music systems (in the man-cave) consists of a 35 year-old receiver and speakers of the same vintage. There's something that just sounds right when paying music of my era on equipment from the same area.

 

[CraigV]

Well, if your HT is all setup, then it’s time to get excited about new movies & music – the reasons you got all that equipment I the first place

 

[GlocksRock]

Well, if your HT is all setup, then it’s time to get excited about new movies & music – the reasons you got all that equipment I the first place

I agree... I love getting new gear, but I'm starting to get tired of spending so much money on all my equipment. I hope my new ultra sub is the last thing I have to get for a while.

 

[scotties2006]

I have to get for a while.

I love the choice of words . That's what I tell my wife .

 

[rnatalli]

I believe we've hit the peak of using 2D technology and audio. Our eyes can barely tell the difference between 720 and 1080 and lossless sound is the best our ears can hear. I think when the new 3D Histogram TV's hit the market, that'll be fun, but we're still a while away from that.

 

[itschris]

I gave my post some considerable thought last night. I have been pretty grumpy the past 2 or 3 months due to the finance mess, but I have to say I stand by what I said.

I was reading through a couple of the newer issues of the HT mags I get that I just haven't had the chance to read. There's nothing that really excites me. They review a $4K receiver that has limited upconversion abilities... or a $3K unit that has less then steller scaling... I mean what is that? For that kind of money, it should do it all. Then there's companies who still can't seem to get their stuff out there even after a year of being pushed back. I joined here about year ago and was already waiting patiently for the new Emotiva processor to arrive already past it's promised arrival date... it's been a year now and I still don't think it's coming.

HTPC's... the lossless audio is still not really here... or at best it's a mystical kind of thing that requires too much time to really even consider. There's still not a single comprehensive software solution for HTPC... you still need add-ins for this and that and have to have this run in the background, blah, blah, blah.

TV's... sure the price has come down... I bought to 40" displays for $1800 out the door with extended warranty, but who cares? They should be even cheaper. To me it's like the last 10 years of tubes... it was basically a homogeneous product and you based your decision pretty much on price and which cabinet looked best.


Here's some things in the HT world that would excite me:

1) An RF version of the Haromony One or something similar that provides a slick looking remote, easy PC based programming, that simply does what it should for about $250.

2) For HTPC, I'd like to have single program based setup that does everything I need. Maybe the new Media Center will do that. I don't want to load or use 5+ programs to what I want. I shouldn't have to use Media Monkey to archive my discs, PowerDVD to play a movie, etc. One program should do all of these things well enough to work. I should be able to use CableCard to get rid of my box, I should be able to record what I want, when I want, how I want, and I should be able to do it easily... enough so that even my wife should be able to look at the menu screen and do it.

3) HTPC based remote. This has been on my mind for some time. Why can't I have my laptop or my HTPC be my remote. Why can't Logitch, URC, whomever, make a program and USB box that will allow my computer to be my remote and send the signals?

4) HTPC cases. They still don't get it. They're either stupid expensive, or stupid to put together. You shouln't have to go online to find the list of work arounds to get the things to power up and down correctly or make this display work and that function happen.

5) For LCD's and Plasma's... there's more than enough really nice 40 to 50" displays. Concentrate on bringing the price down on those to where a 50" is in the $1k range for a solid everday tv and then a "higher end" model in the $1,500 range that actually offers something to warrant the extra $500 beyond just a nicer glossy bezel. From there, come out with 60, 65, and 70"+ models that people can afford. We don't need 50, 51, 54, 60, 61, and 63" tv's. Standardize the sizing and get on with it.

6) Speaker bore me. I've come to the conculsion that the reason I like B&W 801's so much is because they have some style. Where's the innovation? I was talking about this last night with my neighbor and his wife overheard and made kind of a funny point. She said, maybe the speaker people need to hire some gays. She's got a point. Where's the flair? Where's the asthetics. I love my def techs, but everytime I look at them I can't help but think of 2001 a Space Odyssey. Make them into a piece of furniture that can actually increase the visual value of a room. I think B&W's do that, some other do as well, but a lot more should.

7) I'm bored with technology of half measures. The blu-ray thing went a long way to killing my motivation. Putting out high end and very expensive players that didn't even meet the current spec was just insulting. I know the early adopter crowd is fine with that, but it was very different than when DVD came out. They were expensive at first because they were new and came down in price. BD came out expensive, stayed expensive, and didn't do all that it was supposed to. How do you justify a $1K+ bd player equiped with less than profile 2.0 when there's $400 players with the very latest in specs putting out similar quality PQ? Or how do you justify the same high dollar player not being able to decode DTS-MA while others can for hundreds less?

8) Digital Music. I"m torn about this one because while I love being able to go to ITunes or where to grab some crazy *** song I used to love in high school I hate the idea of paying more than cost/per song of a cd and getting substandard quality. I'll pay .99, but I should get CD quality. I still want to buy CD's though, and it's just stupid that they still cost so much. They should be $5 at this point.

 

[Pyrrho]

I don't know... maybe I've just been in a bad mood for a few months but I don't see or read anything in the HT world that has gotten me too terribly excited.

It seems pretty much a "faceplate upgrade" on most things. I'm still waiting for bigger LCD's and plasmas, home theater that doesn't require tons of tinkering, remotes that are good looking/affordable/and work, speakers that are something more than big rectangle boxes, etc.

There's so much of the same out there... not a lot of stand out stuff or it seems that there's a lot of stuff that's close... but not quite there yet.

I just went to SAMs this weekend and bought a new tv for the bedroom. I bought a Sony 40" because it fit in the amoire... no other reason. I got a second 40" Toshiba because that one fit my daughter's amoire... again... no other reason. I went to BB as well, but not a whole lot stood out. The picture on both tv's are nice and I don't think I'd spend a dollar more for any tv of that size. I believe the biggest reason people in the past chose not to buy big tv's was because they were mammoth. I remember my first 16x9 was Mits diamond rptv and it sat close to 3 ft from the wall. Now that you can just hang these things on the wall, there's little reason not to have a much larger tv with 55" being a minimum. They should be working to bring the price down on that size and concentrate on making bigger displays in the 60, 65", and greater sizes for those setups where a projecter just isn't going to work. My neighbor got a 42 inch LCD 6 months to replace his 36" tube he had for so long. He got the 42 because number-wise, it seemed so much bigger. Now that it's on his wall, and he's used to it, he's pissed he didn't get a bigger screen.

I'm still rambling...clearly I am still in a bad mood... I am actually trying to keep my blather to a minimum lately because of my foul mindset.

Bigger in a TV isn't necessarily better. With a 50" TV, if one sits 6.5' away, one can see all the detail that is there in a 1080p picture (unless, of course, one has poor vision). Any bigger will mean that one's ability to see detail is superior to the picture. This means that any bigger would not look as clear. And if one is watching a DVD, the distance from a 50" TV will need to be 17.4' to avoid having a "soft" picture that does not have all the detail one can see. For a 720p signal, one would be at almost 10' to avoid being able to see more detail than the picture can deliver.

See:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hitech/1137

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

Of course, one might prefer larger to perfect clarity, but it is a tradeoff once one gets to the point of being able to see all the resolution that there is in the picture. For my part, since I actually watch things like DVDs and 720p broadcasts, I don't really want to go bigger than I already have. If I switched to only watching 1080p sources, then I would want bigger than I have, but that is not realistically going to happen any time soon.

If you want really big, your best bet is to look into a front projection system. You can get a huge picture without spending more than it costs for the largest plasma and LCD sets. The viewing experience will be more like going to a cinema (and, like a cinema, would require a darkened room).


As for home theater that doesn't require "tons of tinkering", that depends upon how much tinkering one considers to be "tons". Speaker placement is explained by Dolby fairly well, and once one has a basic understanding of this, if one has an appropriate room for the system, this is fairly straightforward. My Yamaha RX-V2700 has a nice automatic setup that accurately sets levels and distances (delays). I set the crossover points manually once (I don't like where it sets them automatically), and then I never have to touch that again, unless I change speakers or the receiver itself. If I move furniture, the automatic setup can be done again (and one can select the automatic setup to leave alone things like crossover points). I think it is pretty easy now. I do not really need to use my SPL meter anymore. With your Pioneer, you should have the same ease of setup. What are you wanting to be easier? You don't have to play with all the extra processing modes if you don't want to use them.

 

[ChunkyDark]

I think Oppo is a great example of how I would like to see more companies behave. When they introduce a new model it is clearly different from other models. It either has better XYZ or leaves off features for a cheaper price. You don't see them re-introducing products because they changed the faceplate.

That said I really appreciate all the new tech at such a low price. I was floored the other day when I went to see Watchmen at a newer theater and realized my ~2500$ HT (including tv) had better sound. Sure the bass in the theater was deeper more powerful, but the music and dialog is clearly better at home. The explosions are nice, but I want to be able to understand what people are saying!

 

[itschris]

I was talking about HTPC's requiring the tinkering.

PJ's are great, but they'd never work in my set. I have way to many ambient light issues. However, a 75" plasma on the wall would be just fine.

Bigger in a TV isn't necessarily better. With a 50" TV, if one sits 6.5' away, one can see all the detail that is there in a 1080p picture (unless, of course, one has poor vision). Any bigger will mean that one's ability to see detail is superior to the picture. This means that any bigger would not look as clear. And if one is watching a DVD, the distance from a 50" TV will need to be 17.4' to avoid having a "soft" picture that does not have all the detail one can see. For a 720p signal, one would be at almost 10' to avoid being able to see more detail than the picture can deliver.

See:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hitech/1137

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

Of course, one might prefer larger to perfect clarity, but it is a tradeoff once one gets to the point of being able to see all the resolution that there is in the picture. For my part, since I actually watch things like DVDs and 720p broadcasts, I don't really want to go bigger than I already have. If I switched to only watching 1080p sources, then I would want bigger than I have, but that is not realistically going to happen any time soon.

If you want really big, your best bet is to look into a front projection system. You can get a huge picture without spending more than it costs for the largest plasma and LCD sets. The viewing experience will be more like going to a cinema (and, like a cinema, would require a darkened room).


As for home theater that doesn't require "tons of tinkering", that depends upon how much tinkering one considers to be "tons". Speaker placement is explained by Dolby fairly well, and once one has a basic understanding of this, if one has an appropriate room for the system, this is fairly straightforward. My Yamaha RX-V2700 has a nice automatic setup that accurately sets levels and distances (delays). I set the crossover points manually once (I don't like where it sets them automatically), and then I never have to touch that again, unless I change speakers or the receiver itself. If I move furniture, the automatic setup can be done again (and one can select the automatic setup to leave alone things like crossover points). I think it is pretty easy now. I do not really need to use my SPL meter anymore. With your Pioneer, you should have the same ease of setup. What are you wanting to be easier? You don't have to play with all the extra processing modes if you don't want to use them.

 

[GlocksRock]

I love the choice of words . That's what I tell my wife .

Well when you are an audioholic, you can't fight the addiction, you just have to have it.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Hi Chris,

Sounds like you do need something to get excited about.

I agree that the companies putting out TV's, receivers and BR players are letting down the enthusiast consumer. Too little useful technology and too expensive for the average person. Changing the faceplate and adding one more HDMI input while degrading the amp section in your "new and improved" receiver is just plain lame. Marketing runs the corporations these days...Selling Ice to the Eskimos all they can.

-Doug

 

[itschris]

Hi Chris,

Sounds like you do need something to get excited about.

-Doug

I tell you what... I was all excited about getting back into shooting. I used to shoot IPSC (competetive handguns) in college and was actually getting pretty good. Graduated... life kicked into high gear, the company I had started in college started growing and the rest is history.

Recently I thought I'd get back into... primarily 3 gun comps, but unfortunately, I picked the absolute worse time because my new found interest came about just as Obama was about to nab the democratic nomination. From there, everyone lost their mind and figured all the gun control and bans would come back.

Basically, everything has skyrockected price-wise, availabitlity... especially for ammo is very limited and you pay through the nose for each pull of the trigger.

So now I have a handgun I bought just for comps, a new AR, and a shotgun and I can't even get ammo to practice. So I have about $6K in hardware sitting in my safe.

I'm feeling a bit stymied as of late. I also watched Passion of the Christ over the weekend on Blu-Ray which certainly didn't help my mood. I don't know that I needed to see that in hi-def. I'm still feeling disturbed from the flick on top of everything else.