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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Clinton admin really screwed up when they had numerous chances to get OBL. Then the OBL file didn't even land on Condi's desk till Sept. 11th. You cannot as an NSA say you did everything you could while not taking proactive steps to get the info. Or trying to. To this day you'd have to restrain me because I'd like to punch her for saying that. However, she was right about one thing: who could have thought of airplanes as missiles at the time? I disagree with the assertion that this was an "amateur" job. It really downplays what they accomplished. They passed through every security barrier to achieve it. KSM (Kahleid Sheikh Mossad) had an ingenious game plan. After training in Afghanistan they'd just say "Oh we lost our passports" and new ones would be issued, wiping out their previous travel history. It's stoopid, but he knew the loop holes. Red alerts weren't even updated on the airline systems. Upper management in the FBI wouldn't even know about key pieces of info presumably because security was so enclosed. The Cold War system of looking outward and not inward. You could carry a small knife onboard. The security guy who screened one of the hijackers you can see the video footage of him wanding him while having something in his back pocket. It's still surreal seeing the helicopter shots of a great big hole in the north tower. The scale is something else. When you see the towers falling that thing is tipping over at least a block radius to the side. There was a firefighter unit posted a block or two from the towers just minutes before the collapse. Don't know what happened..... Ramzi Yousef, the guy who lit the bomb in '93 at the WTC, you have to think about that for a second: he could literally drive into one of the most noted building in America with tons of detonation, light it, and drive out without any security resistance. I'm biased but still think 102 Minutes That Changed America is the greatest docu ever. It's so raw. A landing gear traveled out and hit a woman and shred her entire back. Engines would fly out the other ends of the towers some 3-6 blocks. Intenational flights were chosen because they contained the most fuel. It was really well thought out. Sad, but also brilliant. I'll add more as stuff comes to my mind.
 
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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
That's what it was. Condi's response to the system blinking red over the summer of '01 was it was based on historical data. Except that it was blinking presumably because of chatter and therefore an attack did happen. If I'm correct Condi was demoted from her position. KSM was getting frustrated with UBL because he was bragging, speaking out about a big plan and wanted him to STFU or risk spoiling the plan. Not all the problems associated with 9-11 were the Bush admins fault. They inherited the UBL issue to a degree, but for Condi to say that in her defense I'd like to slap the woman. There's putting everything you had into the problem and failing. Then there's 9-11 and wondering if you could have done more. While the Clinton admin was the primary because the had multiple opportunities to kill UBL, there's this grey area of uncertainty as to why the UBL file wasn't on the desk until the day of the attack.

There's the PDB Bin Laden Determined To Strike In US and well it says in the US and not elsewhere. It makes me wonder how much the Cold War outlook played into that. Plus that it's America and it simply cannot happen here!
 
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Dal1as

Junior Audioholic
A big issue that many people overlook is an Executive order by Clinton that hamstrung the CIA basically stating they are not allowed to deal with shady people. A lot of our HUMINT we relied on in the Mideast, especially in the verify portion of intel operations, disappeared.

Politicians and bureaucrats need to stay out of intel and warfare.
 
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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch8.htm

Outstanding link. Explains how most of the intel was based on the US' foreign targets, not domestic. There's also the confusion over whose job it was to coordinate, the NSA (Rice) or counter-terrorism leader Richard Clarke. We simply didn't have a coordinated defense domestically, and we had no idea at all of of where the attack was coming from. Intel is amazing. They were really close. A July 5th statement said an attack on American interests was likely delayed. Mentions of "suicide hijackings" albeit at the time no-one could have imagined planes as missiles.
 
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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
A big issue that many people overlook is an Executive order by Clinton that hamstrung the CIA basically stating they are not allowed to deal with shady people. A lot of our HUMINT we relied on in the Mideast, especially in the verify portion of intel operations, disappeared.

Politicians and bureaucrats need to stay out of intel and warfare.
Can you provide a website link?
 
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Dal1as

Junior Audioholic
https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Ch8.htm

Outstanding link. Explains how most of the intel was based on the US' foreign targets, not domestic. There's also the confusion over whose job it was to coordinate, the NSA (Rice) or counter-terrorism leader Richard Clarke. We simply didn't have a coordinated defense domestically, and we had no idea at all of of where the attack was coming from. Intel is amazing. They were really close. A July 5th statement said an attack on American interests was likely delayed. Mentions of "suicide hijackings" albeit at the time no-one could have imagined planes as missiles.
Wow! Memories. I read over that about 12 or so years ago.

One of the big issues then and still now is informational sharing and looking at the big picture. There were policies put in place but not much changed.
 
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Dal1as

Junior Audioholic
Can you provide a website link?
Will try to find something when I get home. It's old news so should be out there.

Update. Got home and google sucks. Duckduckgo not much better. I believe it was in 1993 but he had a bunch of e.o."s that year. Will look tonight more when I'm at work. I believe W rescinded it and now the cia can have there fun again.
 
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Dal1as

Junior Audioholic
Ok. It was 1995. I believe it was E.O. 12947 executive order prohibited CIA officers from utilizing "unsavory characters" as informants?

Here is information from all over the spectrum.




 
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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Some good links. I can remember one author calling into the FBI saying "Do you know there's radical muslims preaching violence against America?" It was at a convention or something he witnessed this, and the person on the other end said "You must be smoking pot!" or something to the effect. In other words, the FBI didn't have any legal sway to do anything about it and didn't wanna know about it. I can understand that. Something happens and now you're testifying in court trying to explain you had no authority to do anything and you'd be the first to get blamed. I'm pretty sure that was the early 90s at a convention and the Blind Sheikh might have been one of the speakers. It's on the "Inside 9-11" documentary.
 

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