80hz versus large Speaker Small Speaker

William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
AFAIK setting them as TOP front or front height won’t matter with only two speakers. They will receive all of the same “height” information. The only thing that might change is the delay, as the renderer will accommodate for different locations.
The other thing is that DAE(dolby Atmos enabled) speakers have a notch in the internal XO to help with the illusion that the sound is coming from above when they’re mounted at ear level. Some dae speakers have a switch to operate in normal mode as well, offering more placement options. As yours are mounted high and to the sides(thats where I’d mount them as well) do not select dolby Atmos speaker in the menu. This tells the AVR that the notch filter will be in use and will also make it very difficult for mcacc to set the speakers properly.
What is the JAMO mode number?
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Samurai
They really need to change the name of "dolby enabled speaker" to "Front Speaker Mounted Dolby Atmos Module."
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
They really need to change the name of "dolby enabled speaker" to "Front Speaker Mounted Dolby Atmos Module."
I think no matter what they call em, it will be confusing. But yeah, something like that would definitely be better. I think they should try and use terms that read like they’re for 3rd graders.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Warlord
^^Ah yes, dumbing it down for the intentionally obtuse and/or educationally averse.

:rolleyes:

;)
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
^^Ah yes, dumbing it down for the intentionally obtuse and/or educationally averse.

:rolleyes:

;)
As much as I hate dumbing things down, I think there are times that it just makes life easier. Like when my wife talks to me! Lol
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Warlord
Like when my wife talks to me!
Not touching that with a 10' pole.

:p

Some of the manuals I've seen are almost too simplified when they go straight pictogram. Of course, there is too much transnational error and mistakes in text based manuals, all too often.
You'd think in our current global economy this could be solved.
And we'd be wrong for that. SMDH.
Oh well.
:)
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Not touching that with a 10' pole.

:p

Some of the manuals I've seen are almost too simplified when they go straight pictogram. Of course, there is too much transnational error and mistakes in text based manuals, all too often.
You'd think in our current global economy this could be solved.
And we'd be wrong for that. SMDH.
Oh well.
:)
Agreed!
Lucky there are a nice group of interpreters around to help. Lol
 
B

Budgie

Enthusiast
Hi Guys,
OK, I played about with the Dolby Atmos, firstly from the manual (VSX-LX302) page 10 it states:

5.1.2 Channel System-1
(Front High Speakers/Rear High Speakers)
This is a basic 5.1 channel system consisting of front
speakers, a center speaker, surround speakers, and a
powered subwoofer, with the addition of front height
speakers or rear high speakers, which are both types of
height speakers. By installing height speakers, you can
select the Dolby Atmos listening mode, which realizes the
most up-to-date 3D sound including overhead sounds,
when the input format is Dolby Atmos.
Front high speakers
or rear high speakers should be situated at least 3´/0.9 m
higher than the front speakers. Front high speakers should
be situated directly above the front speakers and the
distance between the rear high speakers should match the
distance between the front speakers. Both should be set up
facing the listening position.



By following the underlined step I chose "Rear Surround Dolby enabled position" although they are mounted left and right on the side walls, just in front of the seated position, next I found the Dolby Atmos demonstration disc, picked out the "Helicopter Sound" and gave it a go, I could distinctly hear the helicopter sounds swopping left to right only on the Jamo speakers (Height Speakers) to make the sound even better, I upped the Jamo noise level Db to +5.5Db from +1Db.
The sound is amazing now, seriously! I went on trying all the other demos, WOW! is all I can say.
I can share the link to obtain the complete Dolby Atmos Demonstration disc it is 21G but will need permission from the Audioholics team as it is a Torrent site.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Nice! Glad it’s working out for ya.
If you are ever able to do .4 at some point you’ll find it’s even better. For example in the helicopter demo, it will pan around between all four speakers, from TFL, TRL, TRR, TFR and back to TFL, continues for the rest of the demo that way.

The best part is that you can upmix legacy tracks with DSU and DTSnx and get a great immersive experience that way. Sometimes even better.
Cheers!
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Samurai
Nice. Just remember that demo discs offer up best examples and some movie tracks can be a let down. I’d keep playing with it. Keep in mind that the setting you have selected refers to Dolby Enabled Speakers(ceiling facing modules)that are mounted on top of Surround Back speakers. It is not just referring to the use of Dolby Atmos Speakers and Surround Back Speakers.
B8DD36F8-70F1-405F-BDE4-8193FD07C615.jpeg


If the Jamos are now high and facing down, forward of the seating position, you might try Top Front Speakers as that might get you closer to the actual placement. Every little bit helps to steer the objects in the right direction.
E0AB2919-5924-48BA-A92B-5370A596D204.jpeg
 
Last edited:
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Nice. Just remember that demo discs offer up best examples and some movie tracks can be a let down. I’d keep playing with it. Keep in mind that the setting you have selected refers to Dolby Enabled Speakers(ceiling facing modules)that are mounted on top of Surround Back speakers. It is not just referring to the use of Dolby Atmos Speakers and Surround Back Speakers.
View attachment 50039
If the Jamos are now high and facing down, forward of the seating position, you might try Top Front Ceiling Speakers as that might get you closer to the actual placement. Every little bit helps to steer the objects in the right direction.
View attachment 50040
Yep. I forgot to mention that… Nice work!
 
B

Budgie

Enthusiast
Hi Guys,
Thank you soo much for your advice, not shy at all to help a noob out. I will however need to upgrade my AVR to experience the next level experience of what @William Lemmerhirt mentions. but yes, I will get there eventually.
Going to try the Top Front Speaker position, like you say, play around till I get the sweet spot sound.
Thank you all for the valued advice
Budgie
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Field Marshall

Setting your front speakers to Large will disable the sub. Even with big front speakers you have to set them as Small so that your crossover will be recognized.

(Now if some receivers behave differently, I can't say. I know my Yamaha was like this)

I didn't think you could set surrounds to large or small. But again, different units could have different settings.

80Hz is a popular frequency, but certainly not the best for every set up. If 50 sounds better for you, by all means stick with it.
Must be a sucky avr to not offer full range and subwoofer options, personally I don’t run towers under 40hertz usually but full range I’ll try occasionally although I don’t notice any difference.
Even towers at 80hz beat bookshelve of Same tier and brand ..
To op
I’d suggest upgrading your surrounds to something identical or closer to your mains .. if those vintage speakers work fine I’d sell them or use them for a setup by themselves . Or try 2ch with them out , how good is the sound quality??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
B

Budgie

Enthusiast
HI There @Kvn_Walker
Interesting video and yes 80hz or 50hz ? My "Vintage" Wharfedale Atlantic 500s 50hz set to Small "seems" to be the best suited for my setup, but very difficult when choosing Atmos music on Tidal, the sound is sensational. Then I play something from Spotify its a bit different (obviously) then I change from height speakers to rear Klipsch/ Sansui/ Wharfedale and 2 down-firing Yamaha subs (Pioneer VSX-LX302 set to 7.2 must change when listening from Atmos to normal Dolby Surround :confused:) Back in the day, when I purchased the Wharfedale Speakers amplifiers were Dolby Pro Logic and strangely enough set to large not small, "yes the option was there then" with a down-firing Yamaha sub-woofer, I was non the wiser then, the sound was still kick-ass but using 5 channel stereo. It really has become an "Ear" exercise today. 80hz, the way I interpret it , would be the default setting in todays times but not for all speakers out there, I've listened to quite a few systems that have cost my mates a fair fortune and when they listen to my ("Vintage Speaker system) with some added Klipsch Reference speakers/ Jamo Height Speakers and 2 Yamaha Subs they are gob smacked. o_O
So yes, it's debatable all the time, in the end Your Ears are the judge as what @ryanosaur says.
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Field Marshall
HI There @Kvn_Walker
Interesting video and yes 80hz or 50hz ? My "Vintage" Wharfedale Atlantic 500s 50hz set to Small "seems" to be the best suited for my setup, but very difficult when choosing Atmos music on Tidal, the sound is sensational. Then I play something from Spotify its a bit different (obviously) then I change from height speakers to rear Klipsch/ Sansui/ Wharfedale and 2 down-firing Yamaha subs (Pioneer VSX-LX302 set to 7.2 must change when listening from Atmos to normal Dolby Surround :confused:) Back in the day, when I purchased the Wharfedale Speakers amplifiers were Dolby Pro Logic and strangely enough set to large not small, "yes the option was there then" with a down-firing Yamaha sub-woofer, I was non the wiser then, the sound was still kick-ass but using 5 channel stereo. It really has become an "Ear" exercise today. 80hz, the way I interpret it , would be the default setting in todays times but not for all speakers out there, I've listened to quite a few systems that have cost my mates a fair fortune and when they listen to my ("Vintage Speaker system) with some added Klipsch Reference speakers/ Jamo Height Speakers and 2 Yamaha Subs they are gob smacked. o_O
So yes, it's debatable all the time, in the end Your Ears are the judge as what @ryanosaur says.
You can spend a Fortune but if you cannot properly set up to system it’s just wasted ..
I’ve still not got the mini dsp but want one eventually..
Im still trying to fix my placement issues , so I can’t say much .
What systems did they have ??
It’s also possible to buy a gimmick system like those Bose cubes . The uneducated in home Theater buy those a lot..
 
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