80 Hz Crossover. The great AVR question of our time.

guitarmadman85

guitarmadman85

Enthusiast
Questions that perplex me on my journey to audio Nirvana.

  1. Isn't the subwoofer(s) the most important speaker(s) in a home theater? Bass accounts for 30-50% of the experience. Plus, with relatively low watts per channel of average AVRs (80-120 wpc) they rely, and I mean rely on proper bass management to perform at their best?
  2. We always talk about proper bass management increasing AVRs amplifier headroom, and increasing dynamic range of speakers. This is true, but how much? What would a wpc measurement look like run from 80 Hz to 20,000 Hz instead of full bandwidth? Would it be significant? 5 watts per channel more?
  3. Beyond speakers measuring flat in a system, is the next most important aspect to an audio experience dynamic range? Shouldn't we be discussing how to put together a system to achieve an appropriate dynamic range? Isn't there a calculation for dynamic range of an audio system? Something involving wpc, speaker sensitivity, and room size? Wouldn't this information be vital when choosing an AVR for speakers/room?
  4. How much do bass frequencies impact the dynamic range of a system? What are the limitations on dynamic range of a system when using smaller satellite speakers and multi-sub? What does a graph of frequency and dynamic range at a specific input level look like? A graph of frequency and amplifier power use?
  5. Why is anyone buying large towers? I've done it. But why? Unless you need to fill a really large room with sound, isn't a bookshelf speaker with something like a 6" driver better? If for no other reason than they integrate easier with subwoofers? Let alone size and cost?
  6. Why don't more speakers meant for home theater have sealed cabinets rather than ported? If you're planning to Crossover at 80 Hz anyway, it would most likely provide a better/easier integration with a sub. (There is not such thing as a good port)
  7. Why isn't everyone using 2.1 or 2.2 for stereo music listening? There are so many advantages!
  8. AVR are better than stereo components for almost everyone. The typical auto setup built into an AVR will bring most systems so much closer to great unless you spend thousands and thousands. The eq of the bass below 150 Hz alone has an incredible impact on sound quality (another subwoofer plus)
  9. Large speakers cost so much more for most often a very little performance gain over a bookshelf. Especially with proper bass management. Why even invest the extra money?
  10. Are there any downsides to plugging the port on the back of a speaker in terms of sound quality/frequency response?
  11. Full bandwidth speakers are big! They're expensive! They're hard to power! Why even try? For most people.
  12. Isn't a speaker's sensitivity rating the second most important speaker measurement? It greatly impacts choices for the rest of the system.

Thanks for all the feedback!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Quite a difference from thread title to your list of questions. Sticking to the title, 80hz is a nice starting point but as with many things.....it depends.
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Questions that perplex me on my journey to audio Nirvana.

  1. Isn't the subwoofer(s) the most important speaker(s) in a home theater? Bass accounts for 30-50% of the experience. Plus, with relatively low watts per channel of average AVRs (80-120 wpc) they rely, and I mean rely on proper bass management to perform at their best?
  2. We always talk about proper bass management increasing AVRs amplifier headroom, and increasing dynamic range of speakers. This is true, but how much? What would a wpc measurement look like run from 80 Hz to 20,000 Hz instead of full bandwidth? Would it be significant? 5 watts per channel more?
  3. Beyond speakers measuring flat in a system, is the next most important aspect to an audio experience dynamic range? Shouldn't we be discussing how to put together a system to achieve an appropriate dynamic range? Isn't there a calculation for dynamic range of an audio system? Something involving wpc, speaker sensitivity, and room size? Wouldn't this information be vital when choosing an AVR for speakers/room?
  4. How much do bass frequencies impact the dynamic range of a system? What are the limitations on dynamic range of a system when using smaller satellite speakers and multi-sub? What does a graph of frequency and dynamic range at a specific input level look like? A graph of frequency and amplifier power use?
  5. Why is anyone buying large towers? I've done it. But why? Unless you need to fill a really large room with sound, isn't a bookshelf speaker with something like a 6" driver better? If for no other reason than they integrate easier with subwoofers? Let alone size and cost?
  6. Why don't more speakers meant for home theater have sealed cabinets rather than ported? If you're planning to Crossover at 80 Hz anyway, it would most likely provide a better/easier integration with a sub. (There is not such thing as a good port)
  7. Why isn't everyone using 2.1 or 2.2 for stereo music listening? There are so many advantages!
  8. AVR are better than stereo components for almost everyone. The typical auto setup built into an AVR will bring most systems so much closer to great unless you spend thousands and thousands. The eq of the bass below 150 Hz alone has an incredible impact on sound quality (another subwoofer plus)
  9. Large speakers cost so much more for most often a very little performance gain over a bookshelf. Especially with proper bass management. Why even invest the extra money?
  10. Are there any downsides to plugging the port on the back of a speaker in terms of sound quality/frequency response?
  11. Full bandwidth speakers are big! They're expensive! They're hard to power! Why even try? For most people.
  12. Isn't a speaker's sensitivity rating the second most important speaker measurement? It greatly impacts choices for the rest of the system.

Thanks for all the feedback!
For what's it's worth I've integrated subs with bookshelves and with towers I'll pick towers any day of the week

But that's just my flavor

As lovin said there is a lot of factors that go into it

And there different for each person and what they are trying to do with the setup the room and there listening preferences
 
guitarmadman85

guitarmadman85

Enthusiast
Quite a difference from thread title to your list of questions. Sticking to the title, 80hz is a nice starting point but as with many things.....it depends.
I think all of these topics are rooted in the foundation that what makes an AVR special is the digital processing they provide, and the most basic and essential tools a typical AVR offers is bass management and integration of subwoofers.
 
guitarmadman85

guitarmadman85

Enthusiast
For what's it's worth I've integrated subs with bookshelves and with towers I'll pick towers any day of the week

But that's just my flavor

As lovin said there is a lot of factors that go into it

And there different for each person and what they are trying to do with the setup the room and there listening preferences
Why would you pick towers any day?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Why would you pick towers any day?
Can’t speak for @Danzilla, but in my listening area, it’s towers all day as well. Multiple/lager drivers are usually higher in sensitivity, and easier to drive. Also, multiple drivers sharing the thermal and power loads should lead to less distortion, and more dynamic range.
But my bedroom for instance, won’t accommodate towers, and the room is much smaller than the LR. We also don’t look for reference level playback either. So in there BS speakers/sub are fine.
So like everything...it depends!
 
Shimei

Shimei

Audioholic Intern
Full bandwidth speakers are big! They're expensive! They're hard to power! Why even try? For most people.
Isn't a speaker's sensitivity rating the second most important speaker measurement? It greatly impacts choices for the rest of the system.
They are big, expensive, but hard to power? Relatively speaking these particular towers the Tekton Design Ulfberhts are 96 db sensitive 1 watt. THX reference level is at 82 percent on the volume knob in my system. 96 db 1 watt. 99 db 2 watts. 102 db 4 watts..... I haven't surpassed the THX standard of 105/115 db on my volume knob. Actually only going to 75% to this day under this particular Parasound Halo A31 which operates in Class A up to 7 watts. Many consider THX reference level to be too loud which means this system in particular operates under 7 watts in pure Class A mode.



Seen above are the Tektons without grills on [dusting day]. Subwoofer 4-10 Sealed enclosure crossed over at 80hz. Towers run full range. Just to note I prefer 3.1 system listening rather than stereo any time.

More up to date photo:

 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Why would you pick towers any day?
For every thing Will said there is no way bookshelves can match the dynamics sensitivity and power handling of a big tower

And that makes a difference bookshelves are great but towers just scale better

It takes really expensive bookshelves to match what a tower can do a lottof times for less

BUT you need a bigger room they need room to breath and place correctly so it really depends on the room and the needs of the owner of the system and what they are trying to accomplish

But if I can get away with towets all day in every position on the base layer there s nothing quiet like it
 
Audiosaur

Audiosaur

Audioholic
Seen above are the Tektons without grills on [dusting day]. Subwoofer 4-10 Sealed enclosure crossed over at 80hz. Towers run full range. Just to note I prefer 3.1 system listening rather than stereo any time.

More up to date photo:

Nice system! Looks great too!
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
That's like a dozen questions that aren't related to crossover points...

Actually, quite a few of the points you bring have been discussed quite often here. I'm in the camp of quality over quantity when it comes to the bookshelf vs towers debate. If you have a very large room and like it loud then towers might be your only choice. If you don't have a very large room and you're looking for the highest possible quality on a set budget I think books and a couple of subs can get you there without giving up too much at all. If you spend say, $2k on towers you can get some very nice towers. That same 2k can get you into higher quality books.

I have a decent set of towers and recently stumbled across an awesome deal on a set of very nice books. I've been using them instead of my towers and I gotta say I don't think they sound smaller at all. At least until you get to about reference levels. That's when the towers start pulling ahead and asking for more where I'd be afraid to push the books too much harder. Reference at my seat is pretty freakin' loud and those books can take it pretty well when crossed over to a sub.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
  1. Isn't the subwoofer(s) the most important speaker(s) in a home theater? Bass accounts for 30-50% of the experience. Plus, with relatively low watts per channel of average AVRs (80-120 wpc) they rely, and I mean rely on proper bass management to perform at their best?
I would answer this "no"! I mean I could argue the importance of a subwoofer based on its unique ability to ruin the sound (if setup very poorly or a very bad sub). However if I had to chose to forfeit a speaker between mains and sub(s), it doesn't take much thought to decide to lose the sub(s). I also have a hard time with the idea of sacrificing midrange quality for a better sub (if that is the choice that must be made)! So yes, a sub can truly make or break a system, but omission of the sub still leaves you with a viable HT!
 
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Shimei

Shimei

Audioholic Intern
Another way of thinking of it is adding a sub to whatever brand two way books or towers essentially creates a 3 way system, especially if offloading lower frequencies from books or towers to subwoofers. I was partial to Klipsch before my Tektons. The Klipsch were two ways woofer and horn whereas the Tektons are 4 ways but I utilize a subwoofer for theater viewing/listening thereby making the bottom end a little more bass heavy to reinforce special effects such as explosions etc.

I've been using them instead of my towers and I gotta say I don't think they sound smaller at all.
Properly designed towers ought scale up or down nicely too. The common saying of, "ya gotta have a big room for big speakers" is debatable:

 
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ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Field Marshall
Here's a too much time on my hands response:
Isn't the subwoofer(s) the most important speaker(s) in a home theater? Bass accounts for 30-50% of the experience. Plus, with relatively low watts per channel of average AVRs (80-120 wpc) they rely, and I mean rely on proper bass management to perform at their best?
I wouldn't say most important. Ever listen with just your sub? The mains are kind of critical, subs are auxiliary. That being said, the sub driver, extra amplification, eq, and cab may end up making it a significant portion of the overall expense.
80-120w would suffice for a majority of folks in typical domestic settings and using speakers of typical sensitivity. Off loading the low frequencies by employing bass management helps.

We always talk about proper bass management increasing AVRs amplifier headroom, and increasing dynamic range of speakers. This is true, but how much? What would a wpc measurement look like run from 80 Hz to 20,000 Hz instead of full bandwidth? Would it be significant? 5 watts per channel more?
The extra power is marginal, but it is a positive number. The more directly audible difference is the reduction of modulation distortion produced by the speakers relieved of the task of producing low frequencies. But a smidge more headroom is always good.

Beyond speakers measuring flat in a system, is the next most important aspect to an audio experience dynamic range? Shouldn't we be discussing how to put together a system to achieve an appropriate dynamic range? Isn't there a calculation for dynamic range of an audio system? Something involving wpc, speaker sensitivity, and room size? Wouldn't this information be vital when choosing an AVR for speakers/room?
Wide dynamic range is one of many priorities to juggle. While dynamic range and thermal compression specifications are common in pro audio, they're pretty much absent from speakers for the domestic market. And for domestic situations it's not that critical, fortunately, provided some consideration for your particular situation is given. This ties in with some of the rest, so...

How much do bass frequencies impact the dynamic range of a system? What are the limitations on dynamic range of a system when using smaller satellite speakers and multi-sub? What does a graph of frequency and dynamic range at a specific input level look like? A graph of frequency and amplifier power use?
Keep in mind that much of the bass comes from the speakers. It extends up several hundred Hertz above the sub's range. This is important to consider, given speaker dynamic range and the setting they'll be used in. All speaker systems are constrained by the limits of the drivers involved, but a well sorted system will have similar limits across the board. Its here that you run into the dynamic range limits of smaller satellites, particularly in the 80-400 Hz band.

There is a cool interactive graphic from one of the music sites I'll try to dig up for you. It's been posted before, but I'm on the phone not the 'puter so tedious to search for. It has power and frequency data for all orchestral instruments, reveals how critical that mid-bass range is.

Why is anyone buying large towers? I've done it. But why? Unless you need to fill a really large room with sound, isn't a bookshelf speaker with something like a 6" driver better?
Bingo! Wait, no! You get larger ones because of their wider dynamic range and ability to fill a larger space. Smaller speakers suffice for smaller spaces or near-field use. So it boils down to establishing your objectives given the room you're working with and then choosing the right tool for the job. For many folks' listening habits and rooms, the smaller speakers are a perfectly viable option.

Why don't more speakers meant for home theater have sealed cabinets rather than ported? If you're planning to Crossover at 80 Hz anyway, it would most likely provide a better/easier integration with a sub.
Some do, although the one I'm familiar with (M&K) are long out of business. It makes some sense, and I too find sealed mains easier to blend. Less weird phase shift problems to deal with. Also why it's advisable to high pass ported mains an octave or so above their f3, to sidestep those issues.
Why isn't everyone using 2.1 or 2.2 for stereo music listening? There are so many advantages
Cost, complexity? Many of us long for stereo kit with proper bass management, but it's quite rare, leaving the big clunky avr as a primary option, which not only lacks elegance but requires a video monitor for setup.You're right, though. Full range stereo >> limited range stereo. Even larger, more full range speakers can benefit from subs.

AVR are better than stereo components for almost everyone. The typical auto setup built into an AVR will bring most systems so much closer to great unless you spend thousands and thousands. The eq of the bass below 150 Hz alone has an incredible impact on sound quality (another subwoofer plus)
Pretty much, yes, although AVRs do cut corners, particularly the amplifiers, and heavy handed protection cicuits, which only protect the under-engineered amps and ironically increase risk to speakers. Fortunately, those are easily avoided problems, for a few extra bucks of course. Also, for good speakers that integrate well with local acoustics, room correction auto eq will probably do more harm than good above the room's transition frequency, but can help below the transition frequency.

[Tower] speakers cost so much more for most often a very little performance gain over a bookshelf. Especially with proper bass management. Why even invest the extra money
Wide dynamic range in the mid-bass. Take the less capable speakers to their limits and they'll let you know.
Are there any downsides to plugging the port on the back of a speaker in terms of sound quality/frequency response?
Plugging the port will raise f3 and reduce the slope of the roll off from approx 24db/oct to approx 12db/oct. The change in f3 will force you to compensate with higher extension from the sub, so there is more chance for the sub to be localizable.

Full bandwidth speakers are big! They're expensive! They're hard to power! Why even try? For most people.
Big, yes, expensive, quite likely, but not necessarily difficult loads. Sure, there are the revel salons and such, but many others as well, some quite sensitive and thus easy to drive.

Isn't a speaker's sensitivity rating the second most important speaker measurement? It greatly impacts choices for the rest of the system.
Acoustic characteristics are most important as that's what you hear; electric characteristics are still important, as you pointed out. Sensitivity (along with impedance and phase measurements) will dictate what sort of amplification you will need, always keeping in mind how hard you need to flog them to achieve desired listening levels. So insensitive speakers would be a poor choice for larger rooms, where the requisite power approaches the speaker's limits. Better to use a higher sensitivity speaker in that case. But sensitivity itself is not a determinant of sound quality. [Well, maybe, in the sense of where the more sensitive speaker producing the same spl as a less sensitive one will be operating at a lower range of its safe operating area, while the less sensitive ones operate closer to their limits (thus more IM, greater chance to excite resonances or exceed mechanical limits). So, yeah, ideally, higher sensitivity has inherent advantages, which need to be taken along with other design considerations. Speaker design is an exercise in trade-offs and compromises, after all. I would still enjoy the heck out of some BMRs, in spite of their low sensitivity and need of a more juicy amp.]
 
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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
For every thing Will said there is no way bookshelves can match the dynamics sensitivity and power handling of a big tower

And that makes a difference bookshelves are great but towers just scale better

It takes really expensive bookshelves to match what a tower can do a lottof times for less

BUT you need a bigger room they need room to breath and place correctly so it really depends on the room and the needs of the owner of the system and what they are trying to accomplish

But if I can get away with towets all day in every position on the base layer there s nothing quiet like it
Danzilla,
Sometime for fun, unplug your other speakers (at the avr so they can't short out!) and plug your rear speakers into the front L & R! Turn around and play some stereo music and let those 530's do their thing.
I'm not saying (at all) that this would convert you from a tower guy to a BS guy, but I know you will be mightily impressed by how those 530's are "ready to go"! Also note how well the subs still integrate even though they are now behind you! Step backwards and see how close you have to get before you start to perceive that the bass is coming from the subs behind you!
I'm assuming you are not crossed at 120Hz or something unusual, but the 530's are not timid. Your room seems fairly large (?) so towers make sense since I believe you occasionally like to "let 'er rip"! Also, do not under-estimate the influence fo simply seeing a bigger speakers and believing it is bigger sound.
I truly learned this when I had @TheWarrior over for a blind comparison of the large RBH T1 vs the tiny Canton Vento 820.2. I liked many of the specifics of the SQ of the Ventos better, but that T1 had such an enveloping sound, filling the room with such an awesome level of power! Before he took off the blindfold I asked him if he got any sense of scale from these speakers and he said "absolutely not"!
RBH T1 (those are 4 ea. 6-1/2" woofers! Also, note that this guy has them backwards, the tweeters should be towards the center):

Canton Vento 820.2 (1 ea. 6" driver, on foam risers next to a slim-line Marantz - these are very close in size to Pioneer BS-22's):


Now I am not pushing either of these to their limit! There is no doubt that the RBH's are ready to put out more sound in a bigger venue. However, I was so certain of the effect of those "magnificent beasts"! It blew my mind that The_Warrior could have no perception of their gravitas, I felt like he must have some sort of unique blindspot when it came to soundstage! However, after he left (while I still had the quick level matched A-B setup) I listened some more and found that (dumb as it sounds) simply closing my eyes and not having the constant reminder of those beasts physically dominating the room made a huge difference, it is not an immediate on/off switch, but given a few minutes, I realized that vision absolutely influences my perception when comparing these two speakers!
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Danzilla,
Some time for fun, unplug your other speakers (at the avr so they can't short out!) and plug your rear speakers into the front L & R! Turn around and play some stereo music and let those 530's do their thing.
I'm not saying (at all) that this would convert you from a tower guy to a BS guy, but I know you will be mightily impressed by how those 530's are "ready to go"! Also note how well the subs still integrate even though they are now behind you! Step backwards and see how close you have to get before you start to perceive that the bass is coming from the subs behind you!
I'm assuming you are not crossed at 120Hz or something unusual, but the 530's are not timid. Your room seems fairly large (?) so towers make sense since I believe you occasionally like to "let 'er rip"! Also, do not under-estimate the influence fo simply seeing a bigger speakers and believing it is bigger sound.
I truely learned this when I had @TheWarrior over for a blind comparison of the large RBH T1 vs the tiny Canton Vento 820.2. I liked many of the specifics of the SQ of the Ventos better, but that T1 had such an enveloping sound, filling the room with such an awesome level of power! Before he took off the blindfold I asked him if he got any sense of scale from these speakers and he said "absolutely not"!
RBH T1 (those are 4 ea. 6-1/2" woofers! Also, note that this guy has them backwards, the tweeters should be towards the center):

Canton Vento 820.2 (1 ea. 6" driver, on foam risers next to a slim-line Marantz - these are very close in size to Pioneer BS-22's):


Now I am not pushing either of these to their limit! There is no doubt that the RBH's are ready to put out more sound in a bigger venue. However, I was so certain of the effect of those "magnificent beasts"! It blew my mind that The_Warrior could have no perception of their gravitas, I felt like he must have some sort of unique blindspot when it came to soundstage! However, after he left (while I still had the quick level matched A-B setup) I listened some more and found that (dumb as it sounds) simply closing my eyes and not having the constant reminder of those beasts physically dominating the room made a huge difference, it is not an immediate on/off switch, but given a few minutes, I realized that vision absolutely influences my perception when comparing these two speakers!
I always run my bookshelves in 2 channel when debuting them just to see if they make the cut I was more then impressed with the 530's

Like I said in smaller rooms no issues using bookshelves with a sub

But in my bigger spots like you noticed no way can they compete

Another factor is I like big sound at LOW volumes my system is just outrageous at 15 below reference so is my bedroom system and you need in my experience lots of drivers moving some air to pull that off

Which is why I prefer towers when the room let's me get away with it

But I agree with you I'm not knocking bookshelves at all

It's just my preference

Plus bookshelves can't give me the oomph at 80 or 60 Hz crossover points which I prefer that a big tower can the sub will make up for a lot of it but not all of it

Once again just my personal tastes LOL
 
AVUser001

AVUser001

Full Audioholic
Questions that perplex me on my journey to audio Nirvana.

  1. Isn't the subwoofer(s) the most important speaker(s) in a home theater? Bass accounts for 30-50% of the experience. Plus, with relatively low watts per channel of average AVRs (80-120 wpc) they rely, and I mean rely on proper bass management to perform at their best?
Its very important for the low frequency reproduction..,but not "the most important" speaker(s) in HT. That'd be your LCR, with the Center taking the crown for movie dialogue. Remember your L&R towers can reproduce bass(low frequencies) too , although not as deep as your sub. So you can potentially live without a sub , esp if the L&R speakers are full range towers capable of extending low...,although you'dnt want to in a HT application, becos powered subs are specifically designed to reproduce bass and take the load off the mains & AVR..
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I always run my bookshelves in 2 channel when debuting them just to see if they make the cut I was more then impressed with the 530's
I would still suggest you do what I suggested, because it is neat/fun to experience that inability to localize the subwoofer and recognize how we focus on higher frequency artifacts (like the noise of the string being plucked when a bass is playing) and our mind tells us that is where the source of the deeper bass is!
This is happening all of the time, but when your subs are along the same wall as the speakers, you really don't experience it like you do when you intellectually know all of the deep bass is behind you while your ears/mind say "no, it is right in front of you"!
But I forget, your work is still keeping you busy, right? I'm kind of assuming most of us are hanging at home more than normal, where doing a little test like this is not going to disrupt other activities.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I would still suggest you do what I suggested, because it is neat/fun to experience that inability to localize the subwoofer and recognize how we focus on higher frequency artifacts (like the noise of the string being plucked when a bass is playing) and our mind tells us that is where the source of the deeper bass is!
This is happening all of the time, but when your subs are along the same wall as the speakers, you really don't experience it like you do when you intellectually know all of the deep bass is behind you while your ears/mind say "no, it is right in front of you"!
But I forget, your work is still keeping you busy, right? I'm kind of assuming most of us are hanging at home more than normal, where doing a little test like this is not going to disrupt other activities.
I might do this Kurt. Just for shits n giggles. I have fun doing little experiments like that. Tricking your brain can be fun, and can give you new insight!
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I would still suggest you do what I suggested, because it is neat/fun to experience that inability to localize the subwoofer and recognize how we focus on higher frequency artifacts (like the noise of the string being plucked when a bass is playing) and our mind tells us that is where the source of the deeper bass is!
This is happening all of the time, but when your subs are along the same wall as the speakers, you really don't experience it like you do when you intellectually know all of the deep bass is behind you while your ears/mind say "no, it is right in front of you"!
But I forget, your work is still keeping you busy, right? I'm kind of assuming most of us are hanging at home more than normal, where doing a little test like this is not going to disrupt other activities.
Yeah I'm considered essential care doing psych nursing so I'm working away

It's been a little rough lately lot of suicide admissions A LOT of aggressive drug related admits but that's going to be getting worse though I'm afraid

So busy busy busy but I will try out your suggestion for sure I'll be off this weekend so Ill need a way to detach so that'll be fun
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
I would still suggest you do what I suggested, because it is neat/fun to experience that inability to localize the subwoofer and recognize how we focus on higher frequency artifacts (like the noise of the string being plucked when a bass is playing) and our mind tells us that is where the source of the deeper bass is!
This is happening all of the time, but when your subs are along the same wall as the speakers, you really don't experience it like you do when you intellectually know all of the deep bass is behind you while your ears/mind say "no, it is right in front of you"!
But I forget, your work is still keeping you busy, right? I'm kind of assuming most of us are hanging at home more than normal, where doing a little test like this is not going to disrupt other activities.
I've got 3 subs in that room so it'll be fun to see if I can get em to blend in with just the 530's
 
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