7 channel focal or klipsch for home theatre

[KEW]

Is lobing an issue with the RP klipsch centers?

I don't know!
I'm not sure if I would recognize the problem as lobing if I did hear it. I have not heard the RP center. I bought a pair of RP-160m's to be able to evaluate the sound quality of the new horn design. After that I was about to pull the plug on a pair of RP-280f's and a RP-250c, but then Klipsch announced that they were coming out with a new generation of the RP series. I am not in a rush, so I figure I'll wait until they come out, buy a pair of the new version of the RP-160m, and compare with the current RP-160m to see if there was a significant improvement. If not, there should be some good deals on the old (current) model. If so, I'll buy the "open box" new generation RP speakers off.

I do have an RC-52 ii center that I use with my RF-82 ii's. I did not notice anything unusual happening, but maybe I would if I could switch between it and another speaker which did not exhibit lobing?

 

[snakeeyes]

I don't know!
I'm not sure if I would recognize the problem as lobing if I did hear it. I have not heard the RP center. I bought a pair of RP-160m's to be able to evaluate the sound quality of the new horn design. After that I was about to pull the plug on a pair of RP-280f's and a RP-250c, but then Klipsch announced that they were coming out with a new generation of the RP series. I am not in a rush, so I figure I'll wait until they come out, buy a pair of the new version of the RP-160m, and compare with the current RP-160m to see if there was a significant improvement. If not, there should be some good deals on the old (current) model. If so, I'll buy the "open box" new generation RP speakers off.

I do have an RC-52 ii center that I use with my RF-82 ii's. I did not notice anything unusual happening, but maybe I would if I could switch between it and another speaker which did not exhibit lobing?

Thanks man. I’m not sure if the lobing effect is something that matters but shadyj had written some extensive thoughts on it so wondered if horn tweeters were immune.
I’m trying maybe too hard researching the science and not enough on just enjoying the search for new speakers.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks man. I’m not sure if the lobing effect is something that matters but shadyj had written some extensive thoughts on it so wondered if horn tweeters were immune.
I’m trying maybe too hard researching the science and not enough on just enjoying the search for new speakers.

Hey man, just sayin but I think you might be splitting the wrong hairs. Lobing IS a thing, but I doubt it’s anything that’ll make you sit up and declare in the middle of a movie, “that damn center is lobing so bad, I just can’t stand it!” Imo someone could do far more damage by let’s say, moving a center speaker to the rear of the shelf it’s on vs keeping it at the leading edge. Iow I wouldn’t necessarily keep that at the top of the list of reasons not to use a particular one.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I don't really remember. I know one of them was an Avengers movie (the one with the flying aircraft carrier).
My test was not to evaluate the sound quality of the surrounds; it was to evaluate the content. At the time, I had Paradigm Signature S-2's as my mains and the Mirage OMD-5's for my surrounds. I was already comfortable with the sound quality of the Mirage speakers. I had happily used them for music (and, later, as surrounds). Certainly, side by side, they sound about as different as they could from the S-2's given their omnidirectional dispersion.
What I primarily remember hearing while listening to the surrounds alone was very muffled speech (ambiance from the dialog), indistinct crowd/traffic noise, falling debris, ricochets, rain, etc. There was nothing that would be distinctly definable by me as inappropriate if some nuance of the sound wasn't quite right. IOW, it may be the case that the sound of a ricochet is not exactly what it should be for the specific caliber of bullet glancing off of a specific material, but those are not sounds I know well enough that I would ever hear anything wrong.
If there was a scene where the point of view was from someone in a straight trench looking at the enemy (perpendicular to the line of the trench) and the person directly to either side spoke to me, then I would get much more interested in making sure the surrounds were a very close match to the mains. Human speech is a sound that we assign audible characteristics to critically. However, I have never seen a movie do this. The camera always pans to the person who speaks even if the reality is you would not look at them because you are sighting down your rifle waiting for the enemy to expose himself!
If you know of a movie that is particularly demanding of the surrounds, I would like to check it out. However, IME, I have yet to watch one where the surrounds have critical content. Although I suspect there is at least an experimental one or two out there.

I’ll try to make one last bit of sense before I doze off... then readdress tomorrow.
For me, one of the great things about surround sound, is it’s exactly that. The front is tied to the back in an indistinguishable bubble of sound. The discrete things that move around aren’t simply in the front stage, or the rear. They move seamlessly around. So for example, you mentioned a ricochet. Depending on where it’s panned, it should flow from(just an example) say the center to right main to right surround as opposed to only the right surround. The same way imaging works across the front, it should work front to back. Obviously the soundtrack has to contain good imaging in the first place.
Tomorrow(Wednesday)I will try to list a few movies that I find make good use of the entire soundfield as I’m trying to describe. A couple really quickly(don’t judge lol) are both of the “now you see me” films. Both have atmos tracks(I still haven’t finished my Atmos install)which I suspect lend to the effects, but throughout both films, there are many scenes that “should” have you smiling with how immersive and convincing they are, being put right in the middle. One prerequisite for watching either is to shut off your brain. Lol
For taxing(as you put it) one of my favorite movies is Lone survivor”. Every time I finish watching it, I have to check my Sheetrock for bullet holes!
Sleep.....

 

[yepimonfire]

I'm just 5.1 with Klipsch across the front. I put Mirage OMD-5 in the back with the thought that omnidirectional was a positive for using as surrounds (right or wrong). I'm a luddite when it comes to HT!

@yepimonfire has Atmos setup and may have some advice on that and hopefully comment on my recommendation below.

I think you are right about not going bipolar. However, I am of the opinion that the surrounds are just not that critical. I got this opinion from listening to parts of a couple of favorite movies with the front 3 disconnected to see what content was in the surrounds and it just wasn't much! Try it and form your own opinion. IMHO, unless you just want to match brands out of some sense of aesthetic, there is not much reason to use Klipsch for the rear. If you already have decent surrounds, use them. If you don't have any surrounds, at $74/pair, I think these will do a great job (as well as being convenient to mount - light and no port to allow clearance for) and let you put your money into other things. They may seem too cheap to be decent, but they are on close-out and these really target the role of a surround speaker so no money is going into trying to play bass:
https://www.amazon.com/JBL-Bookshelf-Surround-Speaker-Special/dp/B01EYJZYQ2/ref=sm_n_se_dkp_US_pr_sea_0_0?adId=B01EYJZYQ2&creativeASIN=B01EYJZYQ2&linkId=05fe750d1cf30a0b424866f19a940e54&tag=delt-20&linkCode=w42&ref-refURL=https://www.dealnews.com/search.html&slotNum=0&imprToken=1xUlV7aWxo7XE-VzQiLoRA&adType=smart&adMode=search&adFormat=grid&impressionTimestamp=1532960585491&th=1

Full disclosure: I have not actually heard these speakers, but have yet to hear a bad contemporary speaker from JBL. They are Amazon Prime, so easy return if they don't meet expectations.

This may also be due to your placement and choice of speakers. I for one notice a huge difference, and now with Atmos becoming all but standard in mixes, fully capable surround speakers, properly placed are even more important for a proper 3D rendering of the sound. This also makes timbre matching even more important, since sound objects frequently move from speaker to speaker around the room.

The Avengers is a bad test. Disney and marvel movies are mixed very center channel heavy.

Regarding the bipolar klipsch, they aren't true bipolar speakers. A bipolar speaker attempts to spread the sound out off axis to prevent localization. Klipsch's wdst technology uses dual 90x90 horns offset 45 degrees from each other, with the idea that you'll get a 180 degree dispersion pattern. A 90x90 horn with constant directivity will fall off 2dB for each 15 degrees on is off axis, so at 45 degrees off axis, the spl will drop by 6dB, if you look at S&Vs measurements of the 250s (red trace), you'll notice the tweeters are boosted above the xover point, which is to account for the drop in spl when facing them out 45 degrees.

If you have multiple rows of seats, this helps ensure they all get good coverage, if not, just stick to monopoles.

Regarding heights, the 140sa mounted to the ceiling by drilling into the speaker via an omnimount would work quite well, this would give you perfect timbre matching and the ability to aim them at the mlp, and Dolby specifies a speaker for height use as having a 90 degree dispersion pattern, which they meet. Unfortunately, due to the large port, attaching an omnimount to the cabinet of their bookshelf speakers is nearly impossible. I have a pair of rb10s mounted to my ceiling and they work very well. Unfortunately they've been discontinued.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[yepimonfire]

Thanks man. I’m not sure if the lobing effect is something that matters but shadyj had written some extensive thoughts on it so wondered if horn tweeters were immune.
I’m trying maybe too hard researching the science and not enough on just enjoying the search for new speakers.

Immune? No, but because of control of the dispersion combined with a much lower xover, it's less of an issue I've found.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

This may also be due to your placement and choice of speakers. I for one notice a huge difference, and now with Atmos becoming all but standard in mixes, fully capable surround speakers, properly placed are even more important for a proper 3D rendering of the sound. This also makes timbre matching even more important, since sound objects frequently move from speaker to speaker around the room.

The Avengers is a bad test. Disney and marvel movies are mixed very center channel heavy.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

+1 for the whole post not just Disney.

Disney is ruining soundtracks currently and hopefully they stop soon.

 

[KEW]

I’ll try to make one last bit of sense before I doze off... then readdress tomorrow.
For me, one of the great things about surround sound, is it’s exactly that. The front is tied to the back in an indistinguishable bubble of sound. The discrete things that move around aren’t simply in the front stage, or the rear. They move seamlessly around. So for example, you mentioned a ricochet. Depending on where it’s panned, it should flow from(just an example) say the center to right main to right surround as opposed to only the right surround. The same way imaging works across the front, it should work front to back. Obviously the soundtrack has to contain good imaging in the first place.
Tomorrow(Wednesday)I will try to list a few movies that I find make good use of the entire soundfield as I’m trying to describe. A couple really quickly(don’t judge lol) are both of the “now you see me” films. Both have atmos tracks(I still haven’t finished my Atmos install)which I suspect lend to the effects, but throughout both films, there are many scenes that “should” have you smiling with how immersive and convincing they are, being put right in the middle. One prerequisite for watching either is to shut off your brain. Lol
For taxing(as you put it) one of my favorite movies is Lone survivor”. Every time I finish watching it, I have to check my Sheetrock for bullet holes!
Sleep.....

Love the image of checking your sheetrock for bullet holes!

Okay, between your and Yepimonfire's comments, I'll keep my mouth shut until I hear a proper setup with good content.

In your last paragraph you made reference to "taxing" and I don't notice that I used the word??? Typo? Sleep deficiency? Or did I have a brain fart?

Please do give me a movie recommendation which you consider demanding of the surrounds in a 5.2 system. Suggest which of the "now you see me" films to get if nothing else!

Thanks.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Love the image of checking your sheetrock for bullet holes!

Okay, between your and Yepimonfire's comments, I'll keep my mouth shut until I hear a proper setup with good content.

In your last paragraph you made reference to "taxing" and I don't notice that I used the word??? Typo? Sleep deficiency? Or did I have a brain fart?

Please do give me a movie recommendation which you consider demanding of the surrounds in a 5.2 system. Suggest which of the "now you see me" films to get if nothing else!

Thanks.

Sorry Kurt. I’m the one with brain gas... your word was “demanding” not taxing. Sorry about that! Ummm, I’m gathering and sorting for a garage sale so I’m a little bit “all over the place”, but either of those nysm titles areally well done, but maybe the second one is a touch better in that regard Sorry, no time stamps, might have to sit through it! Lol
I’ll get back to you for others.

Now that’s how to watch a movie!

 

[yepimonfire]

Many members on avsforum have also mentioned it and chalked it up to their home near field mixes being mixed for the tablet/laptop crowd, but I recently saw Infinity War in theaters and the same lack of dynamics and center channel heavy bull crap was present even in their cinema mix. It's got to be whoever the mix engineer is that's doing it. It's a shame too, because the Marvel movies should be taking advantage of great dynamics and imaging.

+1 for the whole post not just Disney.

Disney is ruining soundtracks currently and hopefully they stop soon.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[shadyJ]

Is lobing an issue with the RP klipsch centers?

There is no way they could avoid it. At least the 4 woofer center speakers try to mitigate it by using 2.5 way designs, where the outer woofers are only used up to upper-bass frequencies, because otherwise it would have been a nightmare.

 

[Lil klipsch]

I enjoy the RP line as well. First klipsch I owned were RVX54 floor speakers and they were very harsh and tinny. How ever the RP line is much more balanced due to the new material being used for the horn. The RVX54 used to just kill my ears.