TheFactor

TheFactor

Audioholic Field Marshall
I've got the 31" Sanus stands. They look decent but I wouldn't use them with heavy speakers. They won't break, but there is a good bit of wobble and lean if a heavy speaker isn't dead center (and some even then). Worked well with my old Polk surrounds (~10 lbs). Not so great with my Behringers or Infinity mini-towers (~20-25 lbs). The 450s are about as heavy as my Behringers, so I would look into the 24" if you like the Sanus. If you're handy at all, its not too hard to build decent looking stands that are sturdier and cheaper than the Sanus.
Thanks and those are some good points and what I was afraid of . Back to the drawing board I guess or i'll get the 24s even though they might be a little short.
 
M

MatthewB.

Audioholic General
As mnentioned check out your local Goodwill, they often times have plant stands that are more sturdy and have a variety of heights to choose from, and they are normally more decorator friendly and cheaper than regualar speaker stands. The ones I got were wrought iron and four feet tall and the plant base was rectangular shaped which matched the 450's so close it looked like they were made for the speakers. But I have seen thich plaster roman column plant stands that would hold them fine and very sturdy and hard to knock over, just a variety of other options besides the mechanical look of speaker stand.

Just a thought and good luck and congrats on finding a great sound combo.
 
TheFactor

TheFactor

Audioholic Field Marshall
As mnentioned check out your local Goodwill, they often times have plant stands that are more sturdy and have a variety of heights to choose from, and they are normally more decorator friendly and cheaper than regualar speaker stands. The ones I got were wrought iron and four feet tall and the plant base was rectangular shaped which matched the 450's so close it looked like they were made for the speakers. But I have seen thich plaster roman column plant stands that would hold them fine and very sturdy and hard to knock over, just a variety of other options besides the mechanical look of speaker stand.

Just a thought and good luck and congrats on finding a great sound combo.
Thanks, and another great idea. I appreciate all your help :)
 
TheFactor

TheFactor

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ok these are the stands I ended up going with : )

Well I ended up going with my first choice because I like the perfect height of 31" and the base is very large and stable"it appears" and were the 450's sit on is the perfect size. They should be there made for them lol . Its a lot more than I wanted to spend but this is how I justified it, for one its going to be on a height traffic area for myself , friends and my cat : ) rounding the corner on the right side of the couch and the stand itself appears to be very narrow but yet sturdy in the important areas. The price was very high but I think its a small price to pay to help even if its a little to the speakers safely on the stands . Well here's the link and other than the outrageous price what do you guys think ? http://www.definitivetech.com/Products/products.aspx?path=Accessories&productid=StudioMonitor Stands http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Technology-StudioMonitor-Speaker-Stands/dp/B001A6GAEI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1252883447&sr=8-3
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Well I ended up going with my first choice because I like the perfect height of 31" and the base is very large and stable"it appears" and were the 450's sit on is the perfect size. They should be there made for them lol . Its a lot more than I wanted to spend but this is how I justified it, for one its going to be on a height traffic area for myself , friends and my cat : ) rounding the corner on the right side of the couch and the stand itself appears to be very narrow but yet sturdy in the important areas. The price was very high but I think its a small price to pay to help even if its a little to the speakers safely on the stands . Well here's the link and other than the outrageous price what do you guys think ? http://www.definitivetech.com/Products/products.aspx?path=Accessories&productid=StudioMonitor Stands http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Technology-StudioMonitor-Speaker-Stands/dp/B001A6GAEI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1252883447&sr=8-3
No question about it. Those are the best for the SM450s. Expensive, but the best.:D

When I had the SM450s, I actually bought the Raxxess 42" stands for $130/pr:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--RAXERSS42
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Those are sweet stands to, they look very nice and appear to be very sturdy.
I also went to Home Depot, bought cheap sand (like $2 for a bag), put the sand in double plastic zip bags, and placed them inside those stands. Thus, each stand ended up weighing 30 pounds.:D:D

The base for the speakers is nice and HUGE.

Overall, very, very sturdy.:D

They are great only if you are not using an end table because they are so tall - 42" high. So 42" + 13" tall speakers = 55" tall.

But since you are using those end tables, it wouldn't make sense.:D
 
TheFactor

TheFactor

Audioholic Field Marshall
Wow those stands must be solid and heavy with the sand in there to. Actualy im not sure if im going to put my stands on the end tables because when sitting on the couch the 31" stand should put the speakers a little above ear level and only around 5" shorter then my rear surround back stands .
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Wow those stands must be solid and heavy with the sand in there to. Actualy im not sure if im going to put my stands on the end tables because when sitting on the couch the 31" stand should put the speakers a little above ear level and only around 5" shorter then my rear surround back stands .
Option 1: 31" stand + 13" speakers = 44" high.

Option 2: 18" table + 31" stand + 13" speakers = 62" high.

Mine was 42" + 13" = 55"

I think anyway would be good functionally.

But I don't know how they would look on a table - aesthetics & WAF.:D
 
njedpx3

njedpx3

Audioholic General
Well stated!

IMO, if you just want more "AMBIENT" sound, then just crank up the surround levels.

I've done 7.1 (blu-ray 7.1 LPCM, 7.1 DTS-HD MA) and I cannot tell the difference from 5.1 once the surround levels are matched.

But when you think about it, if they put 50% of the soundtrack in the Center channel, and most of the rest to the front Left & Right speakers, how much "real" information goes to the surrounds - regardless of how many surround speakers you have?

Surround speakers are no big deal. Practically any type of speakers will do, so matching is not an issue IMO.

If you feel the need for 7.1, then go for it. There is no harm done.

Well stated AcuDefTechGuy!

The fronts are absolutely the most important spend 1/2 of your $ on them.
There are lots of good fronts, audition the ones you like that fit your budget.

For movies and TV (dialog coes from center speaker) get a matching center to maintain timbre ( seamless front sound) spend 1/6 of your $.
After fronts and center a good sub is next in importance for bass and low frequencies. Get a good sub spend 1/6-1/3 $. A cheap sub sounds bad. SVS and Hsu are good brands. There are good inexpensive subs such as the Dayton SUB-120 HT from Parts Express for $155. http://www.partexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-635

And last for enhancement/fill think about adding surrounds. If you want louder turn up the gain. spend you remining 1/6 or less $.
 
TheFactor

TheFactor

Audioholic Field Marshall
Option 1: 31" stand + 13" speakers = 44" high.

Option 2: 18" table + 31" stand + 13" speakers = 62" high.

Mine was 42" + 13" = 55"

I think anyway would be good functionally.

But I don't know how they would look on a table - aesthetics & WAF.:D
Option 1 sounds like a winner for sure:D
 
TheFactor

TheFactor

Audioholic Field Marshall
Well stated AcuDefTechGuy!

The fronts are absolutely the most important spend 1/2 of your $ on them.
There are lots of good fronts, audition the ones you like that fit your budget.

For movies and TV (dialog coes from center speaker) get a matching center to maintain timbre ( seamless front sound) spend 1/6 of your $.
After fronts and center a good sub is next in importance for bass and low frequencies. Get a good sub spend 1/6-1/3 $. A cheap sub sounds bad. SVS and Hsu are good brands. There are good inexpensive subs such as the Dayton SUB-120 HT from Parts Express for $155. http://www.partexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-635

And last for enhancement/fill think about adding surrounds. If you want louder turn up the gain. spend you remining 1/6 or less $.
Im pretty set and matched with all my speakers and my PB13 takes care of the bass end very well , im just going to try going to 7.1 and see if I like it .
 
TheFactor

TheFactor

Audioholic Field Marshall
Big smile : )

Hey guys just a quick update, I got everything in today and setup everything and I must say im pretty impressed with these Def techs from there appearance to how good they sound and blend with my Digms . There a touch brighter maybe but in a good way I really like them. I havent used my SPL meter yet just the quick auto setup with My Elite and it set everything a little hotter and put my sub at 0 but it sounds good and dont need as much volume but i'll probably use my spl meter and tone it down. It Seriously added another dimension to my HT I beleive. I threw in Hell boys 2 in 7.1 checked out a few scenes . Well just wanted to thankyou guys again for the help and I'll try to throw some pics up thursday maybe to show my new layout . Oh those stands are solid and look pretty slick to :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Hey guys just a quick update, I got everything in today and setup everything and I must say im pretty impressed with these Def techs from there appearance to how good they sound and blend with my Digms . There a touch brighter maybe but in a good way I really like them. I havent used my SPL meter yet just the quick auto setup with My Elite and it set everything a little hotter and put my sub at 0 but it sounds good and dont need as much volume but i'll probably use my spl meter and tone it down. It Seriously added another dimension to my HT I beleive. I threw in Hell boys 2 in 7.1 checked out a few scenes . Well just wanted to thankyou guys again for the help and I'll try to throw some pics up thursday maybe to show my new layout . Oh those stands are solid and look pretty slick to :D
Congratulations on your new speakers and stands!

It's always exciting to have new toys.:D
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Hey guys just a quick update, I got everything in today and setup everything and I must say im pretty impressed with these Def techs from there appearance to how good they sound and blend with my Digms . There a touch brighter maybe but in a good way I really like them. I havent used my SPL meter yet just the quick auto setup with My Elite and it set everything a little hotter and put my sub at 0 but it sounds good and dont need as much volume but i'll probably use my spl meter and tone it down. It Seriously added another dimension to my HT I beleive. I threw in Hell boys 2 in 7.1 checked out a few scenes . Well just wanted to thankyou guys again for the help and I'll try to throw some pics up thursday maybe to show my new layout . Oh those stands are solid and look pretty slick to :D
I love the Hellboys. Those movie is just awesome.
 
irish

irish

Enthusiast
No less bass will go to the sub the lower you set the crossover. Basically what your doing is allowing more bass information go to your other speakers the lower you set the crossover. Think of it this way, by setting your crossover to 80hz your telling the reciever to turn on your sub when any frequency below 80Hz is sent. So your speakers play down to 80hz, when you set the crossover lower, then your speakers play down to 60hz before it is crossed over (or a better term handed over) to the sub.

Since bass is considered any note below 200Hz you could essentialy set it there, the problem is that bass becomes localized and you can tell where its coming from till it hits 100Hz, hence why THX recommends a rule of 80Hz across the board for a crossover (including large towers) the problem with this is that many speakers can easily achieve clean tight bass to frequencies down in the 30-40Hz (like the DT towers with built in subs)

Since you have a Pioneer with one universal crossover point, I would take the speaker that can handle the littlest bass and use that as a guide (in your case your rear channel speakers) take it's lowest rated frequency response, and go from there. But in your case 80Hz should be more than fine. it just means your center which can easily handle 60hz won't have to play from 60hz -80hz becxause you've told the reciever to hand off everything below 80hz to the sub, and that's just fine because SVS will easily play 80hz and below just fine, because that is what it was specifically designed to do. You'll be just fine with a 80hz setting.

One more thing to note is that mid range driver size is also important in determining what to properly set your crossover to, because it is the mid range that will have to carry the mid bass frequencies to the to the lower bass. So drivers from 5.25" to 6.5" and higher can easily get down to sub levels of 60Hz to 80hz, but say a mid range with 4.5" driver I would crossover at 100Hz - 120Hz, I have a pair of DT Mythos gems that have dual 3.5" now according to DT techs that means with dual drivers that it is basically a 7" woofer (I call serious Bullshyt on this one) because a 3.25" driver (no matter how many you have) can never reach the bass of a 7" driver. So for drivers of 3.25" I cross mine at 150Hz. hence why when you are considering speakers you should do some research and look for those frequency charts like in Sound and Vision and Home Theater magazines. It will tell you excatly what they tested with a semi staright line then the lower the frequency you'll see it suddenly drop like a rock, it's at that point where it dropped that the speaker couldnt handle any more bass and so dropped off. One of the reasons Bose are horrible speakers is their tiny 2" drivers can never reproduce anything that comes close to 200Hz and so it sends it's info to that bass module which is basically three 5" drivers and can only get down to 47hz (not exactly subwoofer territory) since many bookshelves can do that (not that they should).

Hence why when you read reviews and they show you each speaker and sub you basically want a straight line from 20Hz-20kHz, so they show the graph for the sub and where the sub drops off you want the speakers to meet up with the staright line of the sub.

Take this frequency response for the Hsu speaker system, the purple graph shows what the speaker can handle before it drops off at around 100hz, but that's okay because as we can see by the blue graph (subwoofer) it can get to 100hz pretty easy and if you follow a semi straight line the sub goes from 20Hz -100hz, then the speaker picks up where the sub left off and carries the stright line the rest of the way. There are going to be peaks and valleys but there are many factors for that (room it's in, placement of microphone and so on. There are only a handful of speakers that get a perfect ruler flat frequency response (Mackie 824 powermoniters are one). But what's the most important is how the speaker sounds to you the listener, just look for a speaker that can match with a sub and you'll be good.

Sorry so long.
This is a great explanation that helped me alot! Thanks, BAD (Big Audio Dummy)
 
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