5.1 Speaker Package Advice...(was 7.1 but decided to reuse 2 old speakers)

[simplepinoi177]

Hello all, experts and aficionados! I would very much appreciate some advice…

I'm coming from having a Samsung PN50A550 and Onkyo HT-S6100 home theater setup from the late 2000's. I have saved for quite long, am coming into some money, and I am finally upgrading and in need of some advice.

I have settled on a Samsung QN82Q6 and a Denon AVRX3400H receiver. I am now, exclusively, looking for speakers to fill out the rest of my home theater setup. I'm not really looking to debate on my choice on that particular TV or receiver (I've actually heard nothing but good things about the receiver). Also, I would like to figure a really good speaker set without going into the dimensions and set up of the room. And to go about it while staying as close to $1000 as possible would be awesome – towards just the speakers and not to be in consideration to the TV or receiver.

Now, I understand that getting another HTiB isn't the best way to go (the predominant view, not to say the least) -- especially considering I supposedly can get a substantial improvement on sound for the same price if proper speaker combinations is purchased. So I would like advice on a 7.1 speaker package/combo – whether to buy speakers individually and/or cross company. I have been bouncing around ideas and now seem to have gotten to the point that I'm all twisted around and unable to focus and "hunker down" on a decision (I'm sure you have all felt this at some point in setting your systems up). So, if you empathize, I'm sure your help will be invaluable. So what I've "bounced around" about is:

• Pioneer SP-PK52FS with an added SP-BS22-LR to make it 7.1
  • but as great on comparisons in websites as this gets, it is a rather older package it seems
• Chane speakers A series & subwoofer
  • might be considered but getting 2 towers [which is a must] blows the budget right out of the water
• Onkyo HT-S9700THX
  • some websites say it's good enough, but I know how the experts, aficionados, and enthusiasts feel about these
• ELAC F5.2 Debut 2.0 5.1-CH with an added ELAC Debut B6.2 Bookshelf Speakers to again make it 7.1
  • Again, this combination blows the budget out of the water; even after attempting to buy the speakers individually

Like I said, the budget is relatively negotiable, but being that I'm already spending $600 for the receiver, I don't really wish to go too overboard above the 1k budget; many of the packages I came upon seemed good and was around my budget, but included a receiver – so I'm hoping to get a bit better quality since I already have a receiver reserved. So I'm coming in here in hopes to get advice on maybe purchasing speakers individually that will come together well and/or some justifications or compromise to consider.

I look forward to hearing any suggestions or thoughts… Thank you in advance!

 

[Leemix]

First off go with a sub brand sub like svs, hsu, rythmik and so on. They give a lot more for the money usually. Is the 1000 dollars a fixed amount or would it work to buy 5 speakers and then add sub later or 5.1 then add the last 2 channels if you want them. Are you going for a 7.1 or a 5.1.2(ceiling/height)?


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[shadyJ]

There are two ways you could go about this: you could get an entire system right now or just buy the heart of a system and build it up as your future budget allows. The latter choice will net you a better system in the long run, but it would ultimately cost more and take more time to build.

If you wanted a 7.1 system right away, I would look at a Dayton Audio MK442 front stage set, these are really speakers for the price. Use some MK402s as surrounds. That is about $300 for all speakers, and leaves you room in the budget for a good subwoofer. I would look at the Hsu VTF-2 mk5 or Outlaw Audio Ultra-X12. If you can push your budget just a bit, consider the SVS PC-2000 or Monoprice Monolith 12" THX. That would be a killer system for around $1k.

If you are willing to make further investments in your system in the future, just start with a good 2.1 system to begin with. I would still get one of the aforementioned subs, but instead of 7 speakers, just get two good bookshelf speakers. Look at speakers from Ascend Acoustics, Hsu Research, RBH Sound, Philharmonic Affordable Accuracy speakers. Chane has received much praise, as well as Canton, so maybe these might be good. A pair of RSL CG23s could be nice. RBH has a good sale going on with their Impression speakers, you would do well to look at a pair of R-5Es or R-515s. If you can push your budget a but and want some VERY powerful bass, consider a Hsu Hybrid 3 2.1 system.

 

[snakeeyes]

I agree with Shadyj. I can recommend the HSU VTF2. I have this sub in my living room. (Actually 2). There is a great review on this sub on Audioholics from James. It is an amazing value at its price.

I also can recommend Canton from Accessories for Less. (And A4L as a company). I have a pair of Canton bookshelf speakers from A4L, just a higher model, in my bedroom. Lots of threads here about the various Canton models.

 

[lovinthehd]

Is the speaker set simply to watch tv with? Music? You have other audio gear outside this system? $1000 for a complete 7.1 doesn't get you a whole lot....half of that could easily go to a decent starter sub. I like the idea of starting 2.1 and building a higher quality system, but somewhat depends on how important that is to you down the line....

 

[sholling]

I agree with the others, depending on room size and playback volume desired a decent subwoofer is going to eat up 60-70% of your speaker budget. I'd suggest starting with a nice 3.1 setup and add surrounds down the road.

 

[ScottAllenLogan]

The newest iteration to the RSL lineup dropped the price on their systems pretty substantially. I’m about to purchase my third complete set of them to round out my whole home. They sound amazing and they are incredibly reasonable. Not much more than your stated budget would get you completely set up and if, for some reason you don’t like them, they even offer to pay for return shipping. Hard to beat that.


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[snakeeyes]

The newest iteration to the RSL lineup dropped the price on their systems pretty substantially. I’m about to purchase my third complete set of them to round out my whole home. They sound amazing and they are incredibly reasonable. Not much more than your stated budget would get you completely set up and if, for some reason you don’t like them, they even offer to pay for return shipping. Hard to beat that.


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Interesting. Most people would do different brands in different rooms is my guess. I could be wrong though.

 

[ScottAllenLogan]

Interesting. Most people would do different brands in different rooms is my guess. I could be wrong though.

If you’ve tried many different brands and form factors, and then you finally find one that you really like and it also happens to be affordable... then...why?


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[Bones3DFC]

There are two ways you could go about this: you could get an entire system right now or just buy the heart of a system and build it up as your future budget allows. The latter choice will net you a better system in the long run, but it would ultimately cost more and take more time to build.

If you wanted a 7.1 system right away, I would look at a Dayton Audio MK442 front stage set, these are really speakers for the price. Use some MK402s as surrounds. That is about $300 for all speakers, and leaves you room in the budget for a good subwoofer. I would look at the Hsu VTF-2 mk5 or Outlaw Audio Ultra-X12. If you can push your budget just a bit, consider the SVS PC-2000 or Monoprice Monolith 12" THX. That would be a killer system for around $1k.

If you are willing to make further investments in your system in the future, just start with a good 2.1 system to begin with. I would still get one of the aforementioned subs, but instead of 7 speakers, just get two good bookshelf speakers. Look at speakers from Ascend Acoustics, Hsu Research, RBH Sound, Philharmonic Affordable Accuracy speakers. Chane has received much praise, as well as Canton, so maybe these might be good. A pair of RSL CG23s could be nice. RBH has a good sale going on with their Impression speakers, you would do well to look at a pair of R-5Es or R-515s. If you can push your budget a but and want some VERY powerful bass, consider a Hsu Hybrid 3 2.1 system.

Replying to say thank you for the effort in the individual links and also to keep watch on this thread. Every time I go to a manufacturers website I get lost in a sea of models with no price tags but your links are right to the point.

Those Outlaws are speaking to me.

 

[simplepinoi177]

I am attempting to post a full reply, but the webmaster seems to think it has inappropriate material and/or is "spam-like". I have currently contacted an administrator to see what in the contents is wrong. I just wanted to reach out and state my appreciation to you all and that my response is incoming...

 

[lovinthehd]

Another forum favorite budget speaker that should be mentioned is the Philharmonic Affordable Accuracy monitors, excellent value http://philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html

 

[simplepinoi177]

First off go with a sub brand sub like svs, hsu, rythmik and so on. They give a lot more for the money usually. Is the 1000 dollars a fixed amount or would it work to buy 5 speakers and then add sub later or 5.1 then add the last 2 channels if you want them. Are you going for a 7.1 or a 5.1.2(ceiling/height)?

Thank you for the advice. The 1k is not a fixed amount. I would prefer 7.1, but may be willing to compromise a 5.1.2...

I agree with Shadyj. I can recommend the HSU VTF2. I have this sub in my living room. (Actually 2). There is a great review on this sub on Audioholics from James. It is an amazing value at its price.



I also can recommend Canton from Accessories for Less. (And A4L as a company). I have a pair of Canton bookshelf speakers from A4L, just a higher model, in my bedroom. Lots of threads here about the various Canton models.

Is the speaker set simply to watch tv with? Music? You have other audio gear outside this system? $1000 for a complete 7.1 doesn't get you a whole lot....half of that could easily go to a decent starter sub. I like the idea of starting 2.1 and building a higher quality system, but somewhat depends on how important that is to you down the line....

Thank you to you both @snakeeyes and @lovinthehd, I am seriously considering the HSU VTF2 now. It's unfortunate that the beginning 4 figures is still not enough to get a good 7.1, but I am looking for the best 7.1 you can get for that price then...even going a bit farther than the 1k limit if need be...

The newest iteration to the RSL lineup dropped the price on their systems pretty substantially. I’m about to purchase my third complete set of them to round out my whole home. They sound amazing and they are incredibly reasonable. Not much more than your stated budget would get you completely set up and if, for some reason you don’t like them, they even offer to pay for return shipping. Hard to beat that.

Thank you @ScottAllenLogan for the suggestion. I'll do some serious research, comparison, and consideration on them now...


Also, I'm reconsidering the receiver. I'm being told that paying too much on a receiver and missing on a center speaker and sub is a beginner mistake. (not that I wouldn't be putting enough on the center speaker or sub in my current considerations...). So maybe the offset of a cheaper receiver might make the budget bigger for the speakers...

As of right now, I'm looking at speakers from Polk (S55 + S30),ELAC, Chane (A series),RBH, HSU (mk5 package),JBL, or Ascend (CMTs & CBM)...
I plan on laying out the list, but it seems much of it is going to be justifying going over budget than anything else...

I really do want to re-iterate my gratitude to any and all who have read and contributed on my request for advice. I thank you all and I hope you keep 'em coming...

 

[Leemix]

I wouldnt really go lower then the denon 3400 as they are generally lacking some useful features(pre out, lesser room correction version etc.) and often power. An ok set up 5.1 system envelops you in sound and going 7.1 generally doesnt give very much and often give less if you have to compromise with the reciever and front 3 / sub.


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[William Lemmerhirt]

OP, IMO 5.1.2 is a better experience than 7.1
I don’t see any reason not to go with at least a .2 Atmos install, and preferably a .4. The future is atmos and if you’re gonna go through the effort, I’d hate to see you miss out. I’m also a fan of RSL. The CS is top notch, and the products really hit above their weight class.

 

[nbk13nw]

+1 on the RSL's. The C34E's for atmos are awesome.

 

[KEW]

If you’ve tried many different brands and form factors, and then you finally find one that you really like and it also happens to be affordable... then...why?


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Congratulations, although I have never heard the RSL's I have been around the forums long enough to know they are a great speaker for their budget.

I just wanted to offer a counterpoint (not that I believe there is a right or a wrong way - having your choice is the right way!).

I have several pairs of speakers aside from my HT system. But for the sake of simple example, I will focus on 3 of them to explain my rationale.

My most used speakers (and ironically the "worst" of these 3) is the JBL LSR305. I use them the most because they are connected to my Amazon Dot and I have a 3 years mature Pandora account (with a deep history of "thumbs up/down"!) and I am lazy so I opt for the convenience of telling Alexa to play Pandora and get an endless stream of music I enjoy with out further effort. Like I said the JBL's are far from my best speakers, but they are still very good and the wave guide they use renders "sweet spot" an obsolete concept - I can be anywhere I reasonably would be in the room and enjoy them. SO they give me effortless good sound. Primarily background music, but still good enough to enjoy when mood/song attracts my attention to the music.

Second, I currently have Philharmonic BMR's hooked up for attentively listening to music. These have an extremely flat and clean response and amazing off-axis response. Certainly a high quality speaker that does everything very well.

Third, I have a pair of Martin Logan electrostatic speakers for attentive listening to music. If you have ever listened to electrostatics, you will understand when I say these have a substantially different sound without sounding wrong. The sweet spot is narrow compared to the others, but it gives a different presentation to the music I am extremely familiar with, making it "new" and, for me, that is fun!

I would not want any one of these three speakers to be the only speakers I listen to.
The JBL's ($300) are special purpose for having an "all-encompassing" sweet spot.
The BMR's ($1350) offer a simply great all-around speaker at a very good price!
The Martin-Logans (which I bought used for $1600) offer a substantial degree of variety (without compromising SQ).

Having listened to a lot of excellent speakers I have concluded there are a lot of excellent speakers! Although they definitely all sound different (different speakers do that),I often have a hard time concluding that one is decisively better than the next.
So, if I'm to have more than one system, they will not use the same speakers. Variety is the spice of life!

Some factors that probably helped us take different paths is:
1) I make it a hobby to listen to different speakers so I have the exposure to find multiple excellent speakers that sound different but still meet my audio preferences.
2) There are not so many good sounding speakers in the price range of the RSL's as there are in the $600 - $1500/pair price range I mostly dabble in. Looking at the speakers I have heard that I think would perform on par with the RSL's are the Philharmonic Affordable Accuracy ($200/pair but you pay return shipping if you don't like). Infinity R162 ($330/pr IIRC, but these were on clearance - I doubt you'd ever find that deal again). EMPtek 41Be (300/pr IIRC) - I think there is a used pair available in classified for $200, but these are desktop speakers (SPL limited) as suggested by the 4" woofer. Although I believe the RSL's have a smaller woofer as well, I think the RSL's play louder as part of a sub-sat style system.

So you can see, as compared to the RSL I had to qualify every alternate suggestion, with the AA's coming closest (you have to risk the cost of return shipping). The AA's put out the kind of bass the RSL speaker's smaller woofer could not, so especially if you are ever looking for a simple 2.0 system (no sub) they would then represent a much better deal than the RSL's.

In any case, that is my take on whether to replicate or vary speakers.

 

[shadyJ]

My most used speakers (and ironically the "worst" of these 3) is the JBL LSR305. I use them the most because they are connected to my Amazon Dot and I have a 3 years mature Pandora account (with a deep history of "thumbs up/down"!) and I am lazy so I opt for the convenience of telling Alexa to play Pandora and get an endless stream of music I enjoy with out further effort. Like I said the JBL's are far from my best speakers, but they are still very good and the wave guide they use renders "sweet spot" an obsolete concept - I can be anywhere I reasonably would be in the room and enjoy them. SO they give me effortless good sound. Primarily background music, but still good enough to enjoy when mood/song attracts my attention to the music.

I will mention that there are two different types of large 'sweet spots' regarding loudspeakers. These are caused by speakers that have wide dispersion and speakers that have narrow dispersion. A speaker that has wide dispersion will be tonally balanced over a very wide area. However, the soundstage pretty much veers sharply to the left or right if you are not equidistant or close to an equidistant position with respect to the speaker, so if you want the speakers to image correctly, they actually do have a small sweet spot. So wide dispersion speakers will have a balanced sound over a wide area, but not really a balanced soundstage.

Narrow dispersion speakers will only have a balanced sound over a relatively narrow area, however, if you position them according to time/intensity trading principles, they can have good imaging over a wide listening area. If they are built with time/intensity trading positioning in mind, they can also have a reasonably good tonal balance over a wide area, but they can't quite have perfect tonal balance over a wide area like something such as the higher end Revel speakers or perhaps the BMRs. Speakers that are built intended to be positioned with time/intensity trading include the Geddlee speakers and the Hsu CCB-8 speakers, and the classic dbx Soundfield speakers.

This distinction between speakers that supposedly wide sweet spots should probably be emphasized more. Of course, it only hold for two-channel systems.

 

[KEW]

I will mention that there are two different types of large 'sweet spots' regarding loudspeakers. These are caused by speakers that have wide dispersion and speakers that have narrow dispersion. A speaker that has wide dispersion will be tonally balanced over a very wide area. However, the soundstage pretty much veers sharply to the left or right if you are not equidistant or close to an equidistant position with respect to the speaker, so if you want the speakers to image correctly, they actually do have a small sweet spot. So wide dispersion speakers will have a balanced sound over a wide area, but not really a balanced soundstage.

Narrow dispersion speakers will only have a balanced sound over a relatively narrow area, however, if you position them according to time/intensity trading principles, they can have good imaging over a wide listening area. If they are built with time/intensity trading positioning in mind, they can also have a reasonably good tonal balance over a wide area, but they can't quite have perfect tonal balance over a wide area like something such as the higher end Revel speakers or perhaps the BMRs. Speakers that are built intended to be positioned with time/intensity trading include the Geddlee speakers and the Hsu CCB-8 speakers, and the classic dbx Soundfield speakers.

This distinction between speakers that supposedly wide sweet spots should probably be emphasized more. Of course, it only hold for two-channel systems.

I really hadn't thought of it hat way, but that makes sense.
The BMR's are relatively new. I really have not spent much time accessing their sweetspot. I know they sound good from my seat and are not sensitive to me shifting left to right in my chair. They may match or better the LSR-305's for all I know at this point!

 

[simplepinoi177]

I wouldnt really go lower then the denon 3400 as they are generally lacking some useful features(pre out, lesser room correction version etc.) and often power. An ok set up 5.1 system envelops you in sound and going 7.1 generally doesnt give very much and often give less if you have to compromise with the reciever and front 3 / sub.

Thanks. I'm got under the same impression, but it's nice to know it's reinforced with the same opinion from others like you. That's why, if you read back, you'll see that although I was seriously reconsidering the 3400H, I decided against replacing it for the very reasons you have laid out...

OP, IMO 5.1.2 is a better experience than 7.1
I don’t see any reason not to go with at least a .2 Atmos install, and preferably a .4. The future is atmos and if you’re gonna go through the effort, I’d hate to see you miss out. I’m also a fan of RSL. The CS is top notch, and the products really hit above their weight class.

I'm starting to see this viewpoint as well. It does seem that I shouldn't short on Atmos as it does look like, as you put it, "the future." Also, thanks for putting your hat in with RSL as well, it's good to keep in mind.

Congratulations, although I have never heard the RSL's I have been around the forums long enough to know they are a great speaker for their budget.

I just wanted to offer a counterpoint (not that I believe there is a right or a wrong way - having your choice is the right way!).

I have several pairs of speakers aside from my HT system. But for the sake of simple example, I will focus on 3 of them to explain my rationale.

My most used speakers (and ironically the "worst" of these 3) is the JBL LSR305. I use them the most because they are connected to my Amazon Dot and I have a 3 years mature Pandora account (with a deep history of "thumbs up/down"!) and I am lazy so I opt for the convenience of telling Alexa to play Pandora and get an endless stream of music I enjoy with out further effort. Like I said the JBL's are far from my best speakers, but they are still very good and the wave guide they use renders "sweet spot" an obsolete concept - I can be anywhere I reasonably would be in the room and enjoy them. SO they give me effortless good sound. Primarily background music, but still good enough to enjoy when mood/song attracts my attention to the music.

Second, I currently have Philharmonic BMR's hooked up for attentively listening to music. These have an extremely flat and clean response and amazing off-axis response. Certainly a high quality speaker that does everything very well.

Third, I have a pair of Martin Logan electrostatic speakers for attentive listening to music. If you have ever listened to electrostatics, you will understand when I say these have a substantially different sound without sounding wrong. The sweet spot is narrow compared to the others, but it gives a different presentation to the music I am extremely familiar with, making it "new" and, for me, that is fun!

I would not want any one of these three speakers to be the only speakers I listen to.
The JBL's ($300) are special purpose for having an "all-encompassing" sweet spot.
The BMR's ($1350) offer a simply great all-around speaker at a very good price!
The Martin-Logans (which I bought used for $1600) offer a substantial degree of variety (without compromising SQ).

Having listened to a lot of excellent speakers I have concluded there are a lot of excellent speakers! Although they definitely all sound different (different speakers do that),I often have a hard time concluding that one is decisively better than the next.
So, if I'm to have more than one system, they will not use the same speakers. Variety is the spice of life!

Some factors that probably helped us take different paths is:
1) I make it a hobby to listen to different speakers so I have the exposure to find multiple excellent speakers that sound different but still meet my audio preferences.
2) There are not so many good sounding speakers in the price range of the RSL's as there are in the $600 - $1500/pair price range I mostly dabble in. Looking at the speakers I have heard that I think would perform on par with the RSL's are the Philharmonic Affordable Accuracy ($200/pair but you pay return shipping if you don't like). Infinity R162 ($330/pr IIRC, but these were on clearance - I doubt you'd ever find that deal again). EMPtek 41Be (300/pr IIRC) - I think there is a used pair available in classified for $200, but these are desktop speakers (SPL limited) as suggested by the 4" woofer. Although I believe the RSL's have a smaller woofer as well, I think the RSL's play louder as part of a sub-sat style system.

So you can see, as compared to the RSL I had to qualify every alternate suggestion, with the AA's coming closest (you have to risk the cost of return shipping). The AA's put out the kind of bass the RSL speaker's smaller woofer could not, so especially if you are ever looking for a simple 2.0 system (no sub) they would then represent a much better deal than the RSL's.

In any case, that is my take on whether to replicate or vary speakers.

I especially appreciate your input @KEW! I really appreciate you taking the time to write out all of this. You certainly have given me a lot of think about and consider as well as a lot of new knowledge to accumulate and process. I'll take it to heart and be sure to keep this all in mind...



Again, I want to thank you all and I hope you keep 'em coming...