4 ohm question.

[nadeaux]

Please forgive my noobness,

I'm considering 5 Niles audio phd42 on wall speakers for my 5 channel setup, problem seems to be is that these speakers are 4 ohm. I may only use 3 of these and look for smaller rear options.

So is there a way to power 3-5 channels at 4 ohm safely on a budget under $700. I can't really find any AVR that would work and i'm confused on the amp receiver combo. I need HDMI switching but don't need 3D.

I'm thinking I may just stay with my original plan of 3 Paradigm Cinema 220 for my l/c/r which are 8 ohm and then pretty much any AVR will work just fine.

Suggestions/Opinions.

thanks

 

[Nestor]

I think 4-ohm capable AVR's are rare in the entry-level/midrange AVR market, if not non-existent. You'd have to look into a separate high-current amp to run them properly, and it'll probably blow your budget.

Stick with the Paradigms and save yourself some headaches.

 

[AVRat]

This unit has a stout enough amps/power supply to handle the load of those speakers: http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR708-7-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B003N197CU/ref=dp_cp_ob_e_1_map

 

[3db]

Most receivers can do 4 ohms safely depending on conditions. If the room is small enough and the speakers are fairly efficient, and the volume levels won't be ear bleeding loud, then you could probably get away with it. Just make sure the receiver is well ventilated. If you are worried, then look at Yamaha RX-V1800/1900 or its big bigger brothers RX-V3800/3900.
These have nice stout amplifiers and power supplies and will eb able to handle the 4 ohm loads.

 

[nadeaux]

Most receivers can do 4 ohms safely depending on conditions. If the room is small enough and the speakers are fairly efficient, and the volume levels won't be ear bleeding loud, then you could probably get away with it. Just make sure the receiver is well ventilated. If you are worried, then look at Yamaha RX-V1800/1900 or its big bigger brothers RX-V3800/3900.
These have nice stout amplifiers and power supplies and will eb able to handle the 4 ohm loads.

The room is 25 x 12 but the view area is only 12x12, 9 ft ceilings. 60% of the time it will be for TV use which will be low volume and the other 40% is slipit for music and movies. Music and movies are just above normal but not crazy loud.

Don't know much about speaker spec and what is considered efficent so here are the specs.

Impedance: 4 Ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power: 10W To 200W
Frequency Response: 63Hz - 21kHz +/-3dB
Sensitivity: 89dB With 2.83V Pink Noise Input, Measured At 1 Meter On Axis

 

[KEW]

I would suggest going with a decent AVR. If you are not too concerned with the latest and greatest features, you can get one refurbished with a solid amp section at a very good price such as:
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARSR6001/Marantz/Sr6001-Receiver-100w-X-7ch-Hdmi-Home-Theater-Surround/1.html
or
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR807/Onkyo/TX-NR807-THX-Select2-Plus-135-watts-Channel-7.2-Network-Receiver/1.html

Accessories4less is great to deal with and will take care of you.

Definitely make sure your reciever has pre-amp outputs to be able to add a separate amp later if you find you are really pushing the volume.

 

[PENG]

The room is 25 x 12 but the view area is only 12x12, 9 ft ceilings. 60% of the time it will be for TV use which will be low volume and the other 40% is slipit for music and movies. Music and movies are just above normal but not crazy loud.

Don't know much about speaker spec and what is considered efficent so here are the specs.

Impedance: 4 Ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power: 10W To 200W
Frequency Response: 63Hz - 21kHz +/-3dB
Sensitivity: 89dB With 2.83V Pink Noise Input, Measured At 1 Meter On Axis

People often ask questions about 4 ohms speakers and then people response by saying no, no, no, etc. Thankfully not this time. The thing is, you have to tell us what kind of speakers. There are many HTIAB mini/micro speakers that are 4 ohms and but you could blow them up by overpowering (as opposed to clipping due to the amp being overdriven) them with even an entry level AVR such as the RX-V667 or Onkyo AVR-608 so sure they are 4 ohms but they could not take too much power either.

You made it easy by providing not only the brand/model of the speakers in question but also the specs. Based on the info provided, unless you buy used, I cannot think of any <$700 AVR that can do the job.

Oops, I found the following:

For $595.06 (An incredible deal)
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V1900BL-7-1-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B001E5CDS2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1294272998&sr=8-1


For $692
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR808-7-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B003N197EI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1294273083&sr=1-1

Either one should be able to do the job for you and you can add external amps if you suddenly decide to crank things up or feel like missing the dynamics. No doubt those speakers can do better with a 200WPC amp though.

 

[KEW]

For $692
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR808-7-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B003N197EI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1294273083&sr=1-1

Note that if you are willing to go with a older reconditioned unit, you can save $230. I believe this unit has the same amp as the Onkyo Peng recommended:
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR807/Onkyo/TX-NR807-THX-Select2-Plus-135-watts-Channel-7.2-Network-Receiver/1.html

Amazon's price is now $724 for the Onkyo (I hate Amazon's floating price system).

But, the Yamaha is still at $600

 

[3db]

The room is 25 x 12 but the view area is only 12x12, 9 ft ceilings. 60% of the time it will be for TV use which will be low volume and the other 40% is slipit for music and movies. Music and movies are just above normal but not crazy loud.

Don't know much about speaker spec and what is considered efficent so here are the specs.

Impedance: 4 Ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power: 10W To 200W
Frequency Response: 63Hz - 21kHz +/-3dB
Sensitivity: 89dB With 2.83V Pink Noise Input, Measured At 1 Meter On Axis

Based on your room size, I would follow PENG's suggestion of either the Yamaha RX-V1800/1900 or the Onkyo model.

 

[nadeaux]

Found a Onkyo TX-NR1007 for $650 that I think should do the job. Would you guys go with the NR1007 or the Yamaha?

Stupid question what i'm i missing out on with HDMI V1.3a repeater vs HDMI 1.4a. I don't have a 3D tv and won't be getting one any time soon.

 

[3db]

Found a Onkyo TX-NR1007 for $650 that I think should do the job. Would you guys go with the NR1007 or the Yamaha?

Stupid question what i'm i missing out on with HDMI V1.3a repeater vs HDMI 1.4a. I don't have a 3D tv and won't be getting one any time soon.

If 3-D isn't in your plans, then you are missing absolutely nothing.

 

[PENG]

The 1007 has more features but I have the feeling that the 1900 will be more reliable. It is not a easy choice but I think I would go for the Yamaha.

 

[zumbo]

I like the Yamaha. I ran a complete 4ohm five speaker system off of a Yamaha 1400 for over a year without any issues. And, my speakers are very hard to drive.

Amazon, and Electronics Expo are bot authorized to sell. I would jump on it.

 

[nadeaux]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the help and advice you have provided me. I never imagined that this budget family room system would go this far. 2 weeks ago i was thinking of a Denon and Boston HTIB package and now thanks to this place I have a major decision between the Paradigm Cinema 220 with a decent AVR or the Niles PHD42 and a high powered AVR.

I'm starting to wonder if the 4 ohm route is just me asking for trouble.

 

[zumbo]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all the help and advice you have provided me. I never imagined that this budget family room system would go this far. 2 weeks ago i was thinking of a Denon and Boston HTIB package and now thanks to this place I have a major decision between the Paradigm Cinema 220 with a decent AVR or the Niles PHD42 and a high powered AVR.

I'm starting to wonder if the 4 ohm route is just me asking for trouble.

Never had any trouble using 4ohm. Just don't buy a cheap/value priced avr.

Also, don't confuse low-end equipment with close-out deals on discontinued models.

 

[nadeaux]

Never had any trouble using 4ohm. Just don't buy a cheap/value priced avr.

Also, don't confuse low-end equipment with close-out deals on discontinued models.

That's where i'm having issues, the Paradigm Cinema 220 V.3 are low prices but Paradigm and the Cinema series are getting good reviews. The Niles were orignally 3 times the cost but reviews of them are no where to be found.

Looking at spec sheets isn't much help since I don't have the knowledge to know what really makes a good speaker.

Again thanks for all help.

 

[krzywica]

 

[PENG]

I have read tons of lab measurements from reviews and I concluded that the odds are, lb for lb and W for W (specified) Yamaha (Denon slightly less but very close) has the best continuous, dynamic, 4 ohms outputs in 1 and 2 chanel driven conditions. Their weaker ACD performance (relative to Denon, NAD, HK etc.) is typically not a real world issue for many people but surely for some, depending on their applications.

The OP will likely be able to enjoy those 4 ohm Niles if that's the kind of SQ he likes. That being said, he should stick to AVRs such as the Yamaha RX-V1900 (320W 2 ohms) that is known to have very nice and quiet preamp section, Burr Brown DAC and a full set of preouts so down the load he can add something like a XPA-3 to give his 4 ohms speakers the occasional juice they need to do their best.

I have never heard of those Niles but they look good and I just have the feeling that they are better made than the lower end Paradigms. Thanks to Emo, power is affordable these days, why worry?

 

[zumbo]

That's where i'm having issues, the Paradigm Cinema 220 V.3 are low prices but Paradigm and the Cinema series are getting good reviews. The Niles were orignally 3 times the cost but reviews of them are no where to be found.

Looking at spec sheets isn't much help since I don't have the knowledge to know what really makes a good speaker.

Again thanks for all help.

Niles frequency response: 63Hz-21kHz +/-3dB

Paradigm frequency response: 115Hz-20KHz +/-2db

These are the frequency response specs from both manufactures sites. This alone tells me I would want the Niles. As you can see, the Paradigm only go down to 115Hz. That is not good.

The frequency response spec shows the speakers ability to reproduce the source. Your hearing is 20Hz-20kHz. Hz being the bass end, and kHz being treble.

The general roll-off point to be used in an HT system is 80Hz. This is the industry standard, and this is the factory default setting in avr's. The idea is to send above 80Hz to the 5/7 speakers in your system, and below 80Hz to your sub.

The Paradigm will not be able to handle a crossover setting of 80. I would never consider them.

And to boot, the Niles website states lifetime warranty.