3db's Great Room (mainfloor townhouse open concept) setup

[3db]

Like I said, your not here to listen to it. I have much bigger regrets in my life and apologizing to you wont even make it on my list.

 

[shadyJ]

The acoustics of the room look OK, pretty normal, and not bad. The only problem might be the hardwood floor that could potentially make for a stark reflection point. A rug would help to solve that, and the thicker the rug, the better. There looks like plenty of good lateral absorption and diffusion stuff going on, such as that sofa. That room looks mostly fine to me.

 

[3db]

I put on a pair heels on my PSB 800s

 

[3db]

The fun started today. Ive purchased a second identical PSB Subsonic6 used and cheap, have a miniDSP. This room is so irregular shaped with a gaping that I could not find a sweet spot for a single sub like I did for the basement.

No matter where I placed a single sub, I never got a smooth response like I was able to in the basement.


What a day. I'm exhausted moving sh?t around. I started today by placing the subs in the 1/4 and 3/4 position on the long wall and after calibrating the sub gains, I proceeded with the measurements. It turns out that the left LP response was horrendous. I pushed the sub to the corners of the long wall and took measurements, I had a dip in the center or main LP but it was better than the alternative. I went further with the subs in the corners r as I'm waiting for longer sub cables from Amazon to arrive and I still had to try and figure out the rest of the miniDSP REW process.

The first graph is what the individual sub responses looked like along with the combined L+R sub response;


The second graph is the combined sub responses across 3 listener positions.


The third graph shows both the raw and REW eq'd response at the main LP


The last graph is me playing with MiniDSP using input EQ to lessen that notch.

 

[3db]

Did another sub placement exercise today. The right corner sub in yesterdays placement was moved to the other end of the couch, still behind it and firing back into the corner of its previous placement. The Left corner sub was moved to the right of the right speaker centered under the window. I will post measurements tomorrow.

This is where I ended up placing the two subs. Its even a smoother response than the one subs in the room corners.. There at opposite ends of the couch but give the best bass response where the white recliners are, I dont quite get it.


If you notice the media stand is under the TV. I used those 3M velcro strips and velcroed the miniDSP to the back of the stand.

 

[3db]

Here are the plots. The first plot is of each sub by itself taken from the center LP and R+L subs from center position.


Time aligned but uneqed response across the 3 LP


For the EQ, I chose the slope of the bass to be +10db higher between 20 and 30 Hz and be down at 10 db at a 100 Hz based on the Youtube video stating that the lower frequencies (20-30) need to be 10 db louder than at 80 Hz, aka house curve.


I've listened to music and some BluRays and I must say that I agree with the slope philosophy, The bass is no longer boomy but the floors are rattling because of the lower bass. I'm actually quite pleased with the results.

Now integrating this with YPAO was a process I had to think about and run a few measurements. What I ended up doing was disabling the two sub outs on the miniDSP and running YPAO. I also ran YPAO for the main or center LP as I did NOT like what its was doing when I ran it across the 3 LPs. I realise that this would set the mains to large so just for shits & giggles (my favourite English expression) I ran a measurement as shown below.


I enabled the sub outputs on the MiniDSP, went into the AVR config menu, set the bass to sub only, set mains to small, and set the cross over to 90 Hz..(I experimented with that and 90 gave me the best result) . I also played with the sub distance and found that 10.5' gave me the best response. I also took a measurement of YPAO set to through which means no YPAO EQ but bass management is still employed.

 

[TLS Guy]

The acoustics of the room look OK, pretty normal, and not bad. The only problem might be the hardwood floor that could potentially make for a stark reflection point. A rug would help to solve that, and the thicker the rug, the better. There looks like plenty of good lateral absorption and diffusion stuff going on, such as that sofa. That room looks mostly fine to me.

I agree. Room reflections are overrated as a problem. Good speakers are not fussy about their environment, but lousy ones are.

The lower level of our former lake home had a pronounced echo, but it did not bother the speakers one bit. That is the system now in our family room.

 

[highfigh]

I agree. Room reflections are overrated as a problem. Good speakers are not fussy about their environment, but lousy ones are.

The lower level of our former lake home had a pronounced echo, but it did not bother the speakers one bit. That is the system now in our family room.

For sounds with gradual attack, I agree that the room is less of a problem but as soon as the percussion comes in, the multiple reflections rear their ugly heads. For more gradual attack, a reflective room adds a sense of space that a dead room can't.

That said, where the sound reflects matters, too. The room in a house where my app measured RT60 >6 seconds when empty sounded very good after finishing the work, but that was after rotating the layout 90 degrees and the large pit group and heavy rug being placed. The speakers were originally going to face the rear of the room, and the change makes them face the opposite side wall. That prevented the long reflections becoming a problem.

 

[Eppie]

This is where I ended up placing the two subs. Its even a smoother response than the one subs in the room corners.. There at opposite ends of the couch but give the best bass response where the white recliners are, I don't quite get it.

I recently watched the Audioholics video on Audessey Room Correction Performance Tips and in the first half hour they talk about different sub placement options and how it affected performance. It starts around the 12 minute mark. You might find it interesting.

 

[3db]

I decided to redo the measurements here as well with the mic just popping above the chair back by a couple of inches. Here are the results across the 3 LPs

 

[panteragstk]

I decided to redo the measurements here as well with the mic just popping above the chair back by a couple of inches. Here are the results across the 3 LPs

View attachment 45892

That looks pretty great.

 

[3db]

I decided to swap in the PSB500 and swap out the PSB600. I found some stands for the 500s and the tweeters are now at ear level.

 

[3db]

Here are the measured REW responses.

Subs Only measured across all 3 LP


Mains set to large subs turned off at CLP


YPAO set to flat across all 3 LP


YPAO Off, Mains Set to small across all 3 LP

 

[3db]

I finally dialed in the 3rd sub into the Greatroom. The bass is much more even now when walking around. Still not perfect but I'm not going to invest into another sub. Here are the pics.. The last sub added is the sub on the left. The other two subs I had in their present location since March of this year. The 3rd sub is holding up the lamp.



Here is the bass response.. each response at a different listening position, NON EQ verses EQ (miniDSP). The LLP is closet to the hallway and the RLP is closted to the backwall. The couch is not considered a listening position.


Here are the full frequency sweeps across the listener positions (LP). First graph is with YPAO set to flat, second graph is YPAO turned off but using bass management, and the third graph is Pure Direct

 

[panteragstk]

I finally dialed in the 3rd sub into the Greatroom. The bass is much more even now when walking around. Still not perfect but I'm not going to invest into another sub. Here are the pics.. The last sub added is the sub on the left. The other two subs I had in their present location since March of this year. The 3rd sub is holding up the lamp.

View attachment 50565 View attachment 50566

Here is the bass response.. each response at a different listening position, NON EQ verses EQ (miniDSP). The LLP is closet to the hallway and the RLP is closted to the backwall. The couch is not considered a listening position.
View attachment 50567 View attachment 50568 View attachment 50569

Here are the full frequency sweeps across the listener positions (LP). First graph is with YPAO set to flat, second graph is YPAO turned off but using bass management, and the third graph is Pure Direct
View attachment 50570 View attachment 50571 View attachment 50572

That's impressive. I wish I could do that in my large open room, but there just isn't anywhere to put a sub.

 

[3db]

I have rearranged the great room. Im getting a new smaller sofa and chair for the great room and selling off the old set. I moved an Ikea book case into the basement which freed up more space for the 3rd subwoofer. I swapped out the PSB 600s for the PSB 400s onto new to me but used stands. Here are the pics.. Measurements will come later.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Nice room. Those mains look awfully close together. How does it sound? Surprised there’s no area rug.

 

[3db]

Nice room. Those mains look awfully close together. How does it sound? Surprised there’s no area rug.

Thanks. The speakers are 69" apart and I sit about 80" back from them.

 

[3db]

I didnt like the measurements I was seeing and I thought I could tighten things up so I tried next day again playing with new sub positioning. Everyhing else stayed status quo.



Here are the measured results.
Subs 1-3 Raw response across all 3 LP


Post EQ response of Subs1-3 across only 2LP. Missing the Left LP


Full frequency with speaker set to small and YPAO PEQ results turned off


Full frequency with YPAO PEQ filters set to flat

 

[panteragstk]

I didnt like the measurements I was seeing and I thought I could tighten things up so I tried next day again playing with new sub positioning. Everyhing else stayed status quo.

View attachment 53265

Here are the measured results.
Subs 1-3 Raw response across all 3 LP
View attachment 53261

Post EQ response of Subs1-3 across only 2LP. Missing the Left LP
View attachment 53262

Full frequency with speaker set to small and YPAO PEQ results turned off
View attachment 53263

Full frequency with YPAO PEQ filters set to flat

That sub response across your LPs looks pretty good. Much better than my office, but I don't really have sub placement options.

That's a whole other thread though.