300 watts 10" driver small vented

[Guiria]

I've got some in-laws wanting to upgrade to 7.1 and I am putting together their system. I told them I should build their sub to which they obliged and so it begins.

Their needs are something small and not too powerful since they live in a 4-plex.

My initial thoughts are a 10" driver such as the

CSS SDX10
Dayton HF 10
Dayton Titanic 10

And use the Bash 300 watt amp for power. The total budget for the sub is 500 dollars. That price needs to include driver, amp, wood, finishing materials, hardware, everything.

All the drivers are tuned in the mid 20's.

In Winisd it seems the Dayton HF and the SDX10 are very close in performance, however they both exceed xmax with 300 watts around 20 Hz.
I have included a 2nd order highpass filter at 18 Hz in Winisd to simulate the filter on the amp. That's a design concern right there. Both of these boxes are above 2 cubic feet which is getting too big.

If I forget Winisd and follow the manufacturer specs the SDX10 only needs 43 liters or 1.5 cubic feet. So I'd say the SDX10 is still in the running.

The Titanic 10" doesn't have the flattest response, nor is it the loudest (by 1 db simulated which probably means no difference in the real world) but it stays within xmax and also has the smallest footprint. I'm inclined to go the titanic route. It's box is also around 1.5 cubic feet which is more inline with the space I have to work with.

Comments, thoughts, suggestions are welcome.

 

[lsiberian]

TC Sounds Epic 12" DVC Subwoofer 293-650 sealed would be great in a 4-plex. I use one(earlier model, but same basic sub) in my apartment and it's fantastic.

1.1cuft stuff the back 1/3rd with rockwool. Use scraps for corner braces and a couple rib braces. Given it's size finishing is very easy. Sealed subs are very simple to build. I see no reason to spend less on a sub that requires a bigger box. You get the TC name and a great sub. I do plan to replace it someday with LMSR subs. A mini dsp or bfd would be helpful, but I've found it not necessary. Just corner load it.

 

[GranteedEV]

If you've only got 300w to work with, and you're stuck with a 10" woofer, focus on the one with highest sensitivity above ~33hz. The deep stuff is nice, but 10" woofers can sacrifice a lot of sensitivity to get deep.

 

[adwilk]

TC Sounds Epic 12" DVC Subwoofer 293-650 sealed would be great in a 4-plex. I use one(earlier model, but same basic sub) in my apartment and it's fantastic.

1.1cuft stuff the back 1/3rd with rockwool. Use scraps for corner braces and a couple rib braces. Given it's size finishing is very easy. Sealed subs are very simple to build. I see no reason to spend less on a sub that requires a bigger box. You get the TC name and a great sub. I do plan to replace it someday with LMSR subs. A mini dsp or bfd would be helpful, but I've found it not necessary. Just corner load it.

What amp are you using for this? Whats the extension like?

 

[lsiberian]

What amp are you using for this? Whats the extension like?

The EP4000, but you could use a smaller amp and still get good response. I suppose even some of those chip amps could be used.

Extension will require eq as it is sealed, but it would certainly best a 10" overall. Plus you don't need a highpass filter.

Extension is always a tradeoff for upper bass headroom. If you are really on a tight budget. It has the goods to deliver down low if you push it.

 

[Guiria]

A sealed sub with lots of power would be a great option but if I have to start boosting frequencies with only 300 watts then the overall sensitivity of the system will be toast. I've boosted 12" drivers with insufficient power and while they sound linear and deep, their dynamic range is killed.

I also need something simple, plate amp with built in high pass and no external eq besides what MultEQ provides. My in-laws live 2 hours away and we will be visiting them in 3 weeks and I will be setting up their system. I need a set and forget system. Space is also an issue, I don't think they have room for an external amp without getting creative.

They are upgrading from a 500 dollar HTIB that is about 10 years old so anything I do will be a night and day difference for them. One of the primary things we do when we visit is watch movies so I've got to make it sound good for all of us.

If I had more power a sealed 12 might be in the mix but I'm not comfortable driving one with 300 watts and hoping room gain and boost from MultEQ will get the job done.

 

[GranteedEV]

A sealed sub with lots of power would be a great option but if I have to start boosting frequencies with only 300 watts then the overall sensitivity of the system will be toast. I've boosted 12" drivers with insufficient power and while they sound linear and deep, their dynamic range is killed.

I also need something simple, plate amp with built in high pass and no external eq besides what MultEQ provides. My in-laws live 2 hours away and we will be visiting them in 3 weeks and I will be setting up their system. I need a set and forget system. Space is also an issue, I don't think they have room for an external amp without getting creative.

They are upgrading from a 500 dollar HTIB that is about 10 years old so anything I do will be a night and day difference for them. One of the primary things we do when we visit is watch movies so I've got to make it sound good for all of us.

If I had more power a sealed 12 might be in the mix but I'm not comfortable driving one with 300 watts and hoping room gain and boost from MultEQ will get the job done.

How about a vented 12 in 1.8 cu ft?

Try modeling this:

T3 Audio T1000-12D4 12" 1000 Watt Dual Voice Coil Subwoofer 269-091

in 1.8 cu ft, with a tuning frequency of about 24 to 26.5 hz - the F3 is a smidgen higher, but it will give in my opinion an optimal, shallow rolloff including deeper across the board compared to the SDX. With 300W NO high pass filter is necessary based on the model, which is wicked. There's a slight 2db inductance hump centered at about 65hz, but I expect MultEQ to tone it down. It might even be a desirable coloration.

To get that tuning, you need 2 X 4" X ~55"-~57 vents (or play around with slot vents).

Factoring in that the SDX-10 needs a HPF and this doesn't, group delay is actually lower for the most part, even though you'd imagine the higher tuned vented speaker to have a higher group delay!

 

[Guiria]

How about a vented 12 in 1.8 cu ft?

Try modeling this:

T3 Audio T1000-12D4 12" 1000 Watt Dual Voice Coil Subwoofer 269-091

in 1.8 cu ft, with a tuning frequency of about 24 to 26.5 hz - the F3 is a smidgen higher, but it will give in my opinion an optimal, shallow rolloff including deeper across the board compared to the SDX. With 300W NO high pass filter is necessary based on the model, which is wicked. There's a slight 2db inductance hump centered at about 65hz, but I expect MultEQ to tone it down. It might even be a desirable coloration.

To get that tuning, you need 2 X 4" X ~55"-~57 vents (or play around with slot vents).

Factoring in that the SDX-10 needs a HPF and this doesn't, group delay is actually lower for the most part, even though you'd imagine the higher tuned vented speaker to have a higher group delay!

Very interesting driver indeed, however, I think the dual 55" vents kills the 1.8 cubic foot benefit

I thought of going very simple and getting the RS1200K

I've heard this sub before and for what it is, it is not bad.

Tonight my father in law is giving me some measurements of where they need the sub to be so I'll know what box constraints I'll be working with.

Then it's decide and go time!

 

[lsiberian]

You could try a P-R build with the Dayton SD driver. 2 P-Rs with 1 Dayton driver and a bash amp would be fantastic.

You could also port the TC sounds at a higher F-R.

If you need one small sub I'd go the SD route myself. Saves space, simple to build too.

 

[annunaki]

Interesting thread here. The vent is always the killer when you are looking at small vented enclosures. They almost always require huge venting (which takes up big space) removing the point of the small enclosure.

Passive radiator may be an option but good proper ones up the price and affect the enclosure dimensions significantly.

HOWEVER

The best compromise I can come up with here is the CSS SDX-10 in 2.0ft^3 with 2 of the CSS APR10 passive radiators with 160 grams of added mass each.

This yields an extremely flat response (+/- 1db from 29.4hz to 70.7hz [lower & upper -1db points]). It also has pretty good extension too with a -3db point of 27.5hz (at 106.9db with 300 watts rms) and a -6db point at 25.2hz. The upper -3db point is 81hz.

This assumes the high pass filter in the amplifier and a 4th order low pass at 80hz. There is a slight bump in xmax nearing 20hz that exceeds by about 2.5 mm or so but this should not be too much concern for the driver at hand and power should be backing off some at that point because of the infrasonic filter.

I don't think you could ask much more from such a small enclosure. Here is all you need for just $349.00


If this enclosure is still to large, you can drop to 1.5ft^3 and up the mass to 180 grams each. This option will raise the f3 to 30hz however so it hurts extension some.

 

[Guiria]

Interesting thread here. The vent is always the killer when you are looking at small vented enclosures. They almost always require huge venting (which takes up big space) removing the point of the small enclosure.

Passive radiator may be an option but good proper ones up the price and affect the enclosure dimensions significantly.

HOWEVER

The best compromise I can come up with here is the CSS SDX-10 in 2.0ft^3 with 2 of the CSS APR10 passive radiators with 160 grams of added mass each.

This yields an extremely flat response (+/- 1db from 29.4hz to 70.7hz [lower & upper -1db points]). It also has pretty good extension too with a -3db point of 27.5hz (at 106.9db with 300 watts rms) and a -6db point at 25.2hz. The upper -3db point is 81hz.

This assumes the high pass filter in the amplifier and a 4th order low pass at 80hz. There is a slight bump in xmax nearing 20hz that exceeds by about 2.5 mm or so but this should not be too much concern for the driver at hand and power should be backing off some at that point because of the infrasonic filter.

I don't think you could ask much more from such a small enclosure. Here is all you need for just $349.00


If this enclosure is still to large, you can drop to 1.5ft^3 and up the mass to 180 grams each. This option will raise the f3 to 30hz however so it hurts extension some.

I like where you are going with this. The question is, could I use a partsexpress premade box and pull this off?

My wife is not happy with the idea of me building a sub from scratch, so I'm leaning more towards something I can pull off with a prefab box. I have a router and circle jig so cutting the holes is no problem. The question is would I have room for bracing, and if not, would the box be to resonant without braces?

The above mentioned box is 2.00 cubic feet net volume but add drivers, amps, and passives, and I'm sure It's close to 1.5 cubic feet net volume. Which would be ok.

Another reason I like the idea is that I've always wanted to try CSS products. I think I'll email CSS and see what they say about using the premade box.

 

[GranteedEV]

I like where you are going with this. The question is, could I use a partsexpress premade box and pull this off?

My wife is not happy with the idea of me building a sub from scratch, so I'm leaning more towards something I can pull off with a prefab box. I have a router and circle jig so cutting the holes is no problem. The question is would I have room for bracing, and if not, would the box be to resonant without braces?

I don't think resonant would be correct. On paper it shouldn't have "panel resonances until about 200hz based on the 17" largest panel distance.

But the lack of weight for starters, could lead to a jumpy box.
Second panel flexing probably isn't "desirable" but I'm not sure what the audible consequences would be.

 

[Guiria]

Here is an example of simple bracing I could do if airspace allows. Taken from a good build thread over at hometheatershack of the SDX10 with PRs.

The email is off to CSS about the smaller box. We'll see what happens.

 

[annunaki]

Here is an example of simple bracing I could do if airspace allows. Taken from a good build thread over at hometheatershack of the SDX10 with PRs.

The email is off to CSS about the smaller box. We'll see what happens.

You can use a premade enclosure if you wish, but get the one with no holes pre cut. This gives you significantly more flexibility. You will need to add some additional bracing however as you will only have two panels that have not been routed to hold a driver passive or amplifier.

 

[lsiberian]

I like where you are going with this. The question is, could I use a partsexpress premade box and pull this off?

My wife is not happy with the idea of me building a sub from scratch, so I'm leaning more towards something I can pull off with a prefab box. I have a router and circle jig so cutting the holes is no problem. The question is would I have room for bracing, and if not, would the box be to resonant without braces?

The above mentioned box is 2.00 cubic feet net volume but add drivers, amps, and passives, and I'm sure It's close to 1.5 cubic feet net volume. Which would be ok.

Another reason I like the idea is that I've always wanted to try CSS products. I think I'll email CSS and see what they say about using the premade box.

If you are doing a P-R or sealed or even a pvc port just build it yourself if you know how. It really is not difficult for an experienced builder with the right tools. Panel flexing is not a major issue with a Sub, but bracing does add strength to the box that you will want with any decent driver. I use 13-play which makes the box easy to move. Trust me it's worth the extra cost if you gotta haul this thing. Didn't you build a speakers before? Subs are much simpler.

 

[Guiria]

If you are doing a P-R or sealed or even a pvc port just build it yourself if you know how. It really is not difficult for an experienced builder with the right tools. Panel flexing is not a major issue with a Sub, but bracing does add strength to the box that you will want with any decent driver. I use 13-play which makes the box easy to move. Trust me it's worth the extra cost if you gotta haul this thing. Didn't you build a speakers before? Subs are much simpler.

I've built a handful of subs and speakers...the build doesn't intimidate me, but the time commitment does which unfortunately I don't have a lot of these days and will have even less starting next week. If I didn't have to finish the cabinet I would probably build one but finishing always takes FOREVER!!!

Just noticed on CSS website that the quartet10 kit is out of stock currently...bummer, if it doesn't get back in stock soon I'll have to go another route. I will be installing this system on January 27th!

 

[Guiria]

I just ordered the Quartet10 kit and CSS will be modifying the highpass filter in the amp as per a HTS thread I started. CSS receives notification emails when someone starts a thread in the CSS section over there, kinda cool.

Anyways I think this sub will be a good performer, can't wait to put it together...it's been too long since my last project.

 

[lsiberian]

Just noticed on CSS website that the quartet10 kit is out of stock currently...bummer, if it doesn't get back in stock soon I'll have to go another route. I will be installing this system on January 27th!

My room has an unfinished theme so I never have to worry about that, but I hear you.

Just seal up an epic. 300 watts will be plenty for them IMO and you don't really need eq if you corner load it. Sure it helps, but I don't use one. You could even get the bash amp with the boost to help.

 

[Bryceo]

300 watt 10"

I'd personally buy one