2nd Subwoofer Suggestions, Please!

[John Parks]

Some background info for mental imagery (I'll upload pics later if needed): My media room is a converted single-car garage, 15'-6"D x 9'-6"W, with ceiling starting at 7'-3" at the "bottom" (garage door end) of the room and popping up to 9'-0" at the "top" (house end) with a volume of 1198FT3 (33.9M3). My stereo occupies just over half of the bottom end, set up on the long wall, with a sofa on the opposite side. My desk is at the top end, on the same wall as the stereo, with a small, rolling shelving unit and my CDs in (21) modular bins on the opposite side. At the bottom end is a closet with glass sliding doors, covered with heavy velvet curtains. At the top end is the door to the house, two steps up. The floor is ceramic tile with a 5'x7' area rug at the stereo and (6) 24"x24" carpet tiles at the desk. There is also a three tier wire shelf with (9) felt baskets, and a 4'x6' shag rug on the wall behind the speakers to help with acoustics. All in all, it works quite well, the placement is efficient (room to move about) and I am not really interested in rearranging.

I have a Hsu ULF-15 MK2 sub and it is totally awesome - and could possibly be considered overkill as it is running at 35% volume or so. It is located in what would be the bottom left corner, on the stereo side of the room. For movies, it is totally unobtrusive and one can forget it is even on until some really bass heavy material arrives. The sub sonics routinely make the sofa shake, even though one cannot "hear" anything. Very satisfied with regard to home theater duties. What is not so satisfying is when I listen to music: even though the sub is dialed in well, with little to no obvious (by ear) frequency anomalies (yes, I am sure there are and can be and improved improved with a bass management program) the sound to the sub side is what I would describe as "thick". Now, I have adjusted all trims available on the sub (the most effective was the phase control) and the bass frequencies do not point to the sub (i.e., directional). It's just that the complete sonic signature is just heavier on that side. I realize that this is most likely a function of loading one side of a long, narrow room - one wall with curtains and felt baskets just over 5' from one ear, the other over 10' away. It is not that bad, but does bug me when I am aware of it (which is most of the time).

Anyway, since my setup is pretty much in place (there really is no other way to do it without sacrificing some functionality) I am looking to add some supplementary bass to see if I can even out the in-room response. Placement options are minimal: A) the diagonal opposite corner from the current sub location, B) under the arm of the sofa (about halfway "up" the room) and C) behind the left speaker (again, about halfway "up" the room). Sub size is a factor and cannot not be much larger than a 14" cube. Sub connection can be one of three ways, in descending order of preference: A) wireless fed from a "Y" adapter from my amp's single sub output, B) RCA cable, again fed via the "Y" adapter and C) speaker wire from my amp's speaker B output. Lastly, budget is the greatest concern.

I can have my defunct Sunfire True subwoofer (MK I is purchased in '97) repaired for around $350. I've enjoyed the Sunfire for many years and the performance of the new sub (if I go that route) should at least equal (preferably better) that of the MK I. My max budget would be, say, $450. Please keep in mind that the ULF-15 cannot move as I do not have the room for it anywhere else and that the new sub is only for "infill" as the Hsu will do the majority of the work.

Here are some subs that have caught my eye:

Hsu VTF-1 MK3 - $399 + shipping (keeping it in the Hsu family is nice, but the size is pushing it - the only place it will fit is the opposite corner)
RSL Speedwoofer 10S - $449 free shipping (this is nice in that it has wireless built in)
SVS SB-1000 - $449 - free shipping (gloss white, outlet pricing - good size and good looking)
Accessories4Less $XXX + shipping (a nice selection from the likes of Canton, Definitive Technology, Polk and others)
Suggestions from you, dear Audioholic!

If you have made it this far and have any tips ("Hang it from the ceiling!") advice ("Buy a new house!") or subs in mind ("Wilson Audio Thor's Hammer - at $21K it is just a little over your budget and won't fit in your room, but totally worth it - especially in your new house!") I would greatly appreciate it!

TL/DR: I need a second subwoofer for a funky room - please help!

JAP

 

[John Parks]

I found this picture that I took in February of this year. I have since replaced the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1s with KEF 750s and the ULS-15 MK2 pretty much fills the void you see a the end of my entertainment center:

 

[Danzilla31]

I found this picture that I took in February of this year. I have since replaced the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1s with KEF 750s and the ULS-15 MK2 pretty much fills the void you see a the end of my entertainment center:
View attachment 26599

Nice spot! Is the HSU you already have ported or sealed. Whatever you might decide to get if you go that route you should never if you can avoid it mix ported and sealed subwoofers they are very hard to get to play nice together.

Some more experienced members will probably touch base soon amd give you more great advice. I'm just concerned if the sub is turned that low and is overpowering the room. Then even with smoothing the response what would 2 do? Because other then maybe it's not in the best spot to cause that boomy bass thats the only other thing I can think of is its overpowering the room. If that's the case I worry what 2 will do because they will increase your output

 

[KEW]

Questions:
1) What percent music vs HT?
2) Do you use RoomEQ such as Audyssey? If so, which specific version?
3) Probably not relevant, but what AVR?

 

[shadyJ]

Without measurements, its hard to see what is going on exactly. If you could see some measurements, you could probably see what is occurring that is causing any bass thickness. It is probably a peak at some frequency, especially since you are seated next to a wall. When you are seated next to a wall, that location tends to have a major boost in bass. I am not so sure that adding another sub will help, at least until you get a way of equalizing your existing response. The fact that you perceive a a lessening in this boom by adjusting the phase would suggest that. Phase wouldn't affect the sound character that much except for at the crossover frequency. I wouldn't be surprised if your speakers had a bit too much bass themselves with that kind of listening position. I would invest in a calibration mic and maybe an equalizer before investing in another subwoofer.

 

[lovinthehd]

FWIW it should make no difference in terms of missing anything because the gain/volume on your sub is set at "35%" unless it isn't calibrated well to begin with.

 

[Dellrhigley13]

Nice spot! Is the HSU you already have ported or sealed. Whatever you might decide to get if you go that route you should never if you can avoid it mix ported and sealed subwoofers they are very hard to get to play nice together.

Some more experienced members will probably touch base soon amd give you more great advice. I'm just concerned if the sub is turned that low and is overpowering the room. Then even with smoothing the response what would 2 do? Because other then maybe it's not in the best spot to cause that boomy bass thats the only other thing I can think of is its overpowering the room. If that's the case I worry what 2 will do because they will increase your output

 

[lovinthehd]

Nice spot! Is the HSU you already have ported or sealed. Whatever you might decide to get if you go that route you should never if you can avoid it mix ported and sealed subwoofers they are very hard to get to play nice together.

Some more experienced members will probably touch base soon amd give you more great advice. I'm just concerned if the sub is turned that low and is overpowering the room. Then even with smoothing the response what would 2 do? Because other then maybe it's not in the best spot to cause that boomy bass thats the only other thing I can think of is its overpowering the room. If that's the case I worry what 2 will do because they will increase your output

Curious, what do you mean overpowering the room? If you add a second you recalibrate....

 

[Danzilla31]

Curious, what do you mean overpowering the room? If you add a second you recalibrate....

That was actually my post lovinthehd don't know why but he just reposted it. Like I mentioned in there I told him more experienced members would he able to give him better advice.

I made that statement assuming he had calibrated and if it's already that loud or thick or boomy as he mentioned well how's a 2nd sub gonna help when you haven't found the issue with the first? Like Shady posted that bass could be room gain from that spot and I'd imagine the op would want to address that first it seems like hes thinking that just adding a second will smooth it out or help with the issue from what Ive learned from you guys just adding on doesn't always fix the problem.

When I looked back on his post I picked up on the fact that I don't think he has run calibration or any type of room eq. At least that's what I picked up from his describing the situation. From what I've learned from you guys so far that in itself would be an issue. It's hard to fix a problem if you can't really see where it's coming from

 

[John Parks]

Nice spot! Is the HSU you already have ported or sealed. Whatever you might decide to get if you go that route you should never if you can avoid it mix ported and sealed subwoofers they are very hard to get to play nice together.

Some more experienced members will probably touch base soon amd give you more great advice. I'm just concerned if the sub is turned that low and is overpowering the room. Then even with smoothing the response what would 2 do? Because other then maybe it's not in the best spot to cause that boomy bass thats the only other thing I can think of is its overpowering the room. If that's the case I worry what 2 will do because they will increase your output

Thanks! The Hsu is sealed. Yes, I was thinking about that (sealed vs ported) as well. While the ULS-15 is certainly capable of overpowering the room, it does not do so now. There really is no "boom" - everything is tight and tuneful. I do get your point though - thanks for your thoughts!

 

[John Parks]

Questions:
1) What percent music vs HT?
2) Do you use RoomEQ such as Audyssey? If so, which specific version?
3) Probably not relevant, but what AVR?

KEW, I listen mostly to music either via my speakers or headphones at my desk. I don't know the exact percentage as it varies, but maybe 72.6% music vs 27.4% movies (+/- 3% margin of error). I do not have any room correction as my integrated amp, a Yamaha A-S801 does not support such.

 

[John Parks]

FWIW it should make no difference in terms of missing anything because the gain/volume on your sub is set at "35%" unless it isn't calibrated well to begin with.

Hmm, I do not know if understand your comment. the "35%" is an estimate from looking at the volume pot on the sub - is that what you were referring to? Yes, it is true that there was no "official calibration" as I do not have the tools to do so and all unofficial calibration was done by ear.

 

[John Parks]

Without measurements, its hard to see what is going on exactly. If you could see some measurements, you could probably see what is occurring that is causing any bass thickness. It is probably a peak at some frequency, especially since you are seated next to a wall. When you are seated next to a wall, that location tends to have a major boost in bass. I am not so sure that adding another sub will help, at least until you get a way of equalizing your existing response. The fact that you perceive a a lessening in this boom by adjusting the phase would suggest that. Phase wouldn't affect the sound character that much except for at the crossover frequency. I wouldn't be surprised if your speakers had a bit too much bass themselves with that kind of listening position. I would invest in a calibration mic and maybe an equalizer before investing in another subwoofer.

Thanks Shady! I just may go that route. Of course, with the equipment I have, the only adjustments I can make are via the controls on the sub itself since I have a "simple" integrated. My speakers are really not that bass heavy (of course, it could be that I am a bass head and my judgement is skewed!) and, for their size and driver compliment, I would regard them as rather bass light. My next purchase will be a component with some type of analog bass management (i.e., Parasound Hint) or digital (Arcam FMJ SR250, Anthem STR or, if I get really crazy, a Lyngdorf TDAI-3400).

 

[John Parks]

That was actually my post lovinthehd don't know why but he just reposted it. Like I mentioned in there I told him more experienced members would he able to give him better advice.

I made that statement assuming he had calibrated and if it's already that loud or thick or boomy as he mentioned well how's a 2nd sub gonna help when you haven't found the issue with the first? Like Shady posted that bass could be room gain from that spot and I'd imagine the op would want to address that first it seems like hes thinking that just adding a second will smooth it out or help with the issue from what Ive learned from you guys just adding on doesn't always fix the problem.

When I looked back on his post I picked up on the fact that I don't think he has run calibration or any type of room eq. At least that's what I picked up from his describing the situation. From what I've learned from you guys so far that in itself would be an issue. It's hard to fix a problem if you can't really see where it's coming from

That was weird! I thought that may have been your alternate personality or evil twin.

You are correct - no room calibration. Again, it is most likely there is room gain based on the location of the sub, but, like I said, it is not boomy. The "thickness" I hear is actually very subtle and other people cannot really hear it (my wife doesn't, but she is predisposed to think I am crazy anyway). I liken it to having a person standing, say, in front of me and to the right a bit. When I close my eyes, I cannot see the person, but am aware that the person is there, either by changes in air pressure, sensing body warmth or conversely, if they are blocking the sun, the coolness of the shadow. Not obvious like someone slapping me upside the head, but still there. When I listen to music, I am aware of the wall to my right and void to my left - that's all it really is. The best ways solve it would be to build a matching wall on my left (not going to happen) center my layout on the long wall (again, hard to do and keep functionality) or reorient my rig to come off the short wall (which would work, but I'd have to climb over the sofa to get to it and the closet would be rendered inaccessible). Or possibly adding some fill to said void via an additional subwoofer. I will also look into a possible relocation of my current sub, though it will take some creative space planning to accomplish... Kudos!

 

[snakeeyes]

I think a miniDSP box might be an option for you. I don’t have one but that seems to be one possible solution for EQ for your subs. Again requires measurements and REW software.

 

[John Parks]

I think a miniDSP box might be an option for you. I don’t have one but that seems to be one possible solution for EQ for your subs. Again requires measurements and REW software.

Cool! How would that work exactly? Would it be put between the source and my integrated? I run digital files from my computer to my integrated via USB, digital from TV to integrated, analog from my disc spinner and analog from my turntable. Is there something that could accommodate the various inputs or does it take over on the output side?

 

[snakeeyes]

Cool! How would that work exactly? Would it be put between the source and my integrated? I run digital files from my computer to my integrated via USB, digital from TV to integrated, analog from my disc spinner and analog from my turntable. Is there something that could accommodate the various inputs or does it take over on the output side?

Does your Receiver have a sub out RCA?

 

[John Parks]

Does your Receiver have a sub out RCA?

Yes it does.

 

[snakeeyes]

Yes it does.

Believe the miniDSP box takes RCA in then processes the EQ then RCA out to each sub.

 

[John Parks]

Believe the miniDSP box takes RCA in then processes the EQ then RCA out to each sub.

So the processing is mainly for the subwoofer(s) - correct? Something like this: https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4

I would then need to purchase the UMIK-1 and REW if I am properly gleaning the info or can any of it be controlled by an app on an iPad (I believe I saw something about this) and updated accordingly?