$2K Receiver or Emotiva UPA-7 + UMC-1/mid-range receiver

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am little scared to spend $1000 on pre-owned gear. Do you have any idea on how ATI AT1805 would compare to Emotiva XPA-5?

When you buy a ATI amp from Classic Audio Parts that is rated as 10/10, it is practically brand new, and it comes with a full 7 yrs parts and labor warranty exactly like a brand new.

It will look brand new, feel brand new, and smell brand new.

The only thing that is NOT brand new is the PRICE.

Let me ask you this.

Would you rather own a Lexicon amp or a Emotiva amp?

ATI make amps for LEXICON; they just change the enclosure amp box and outside appearance.

Realistically, they will probably sound extremely similar. You could save money and buy Emotiva. But if you have the extra $$, I would get the ATI amps.

Personally I don't have anything against Emotiva. I think they sell great bang-for-the-bucks compoents.

The ATI amps are made right here in the USA, whereas the Emotiva amps are made in China.

The ATI amps come with a 7 yr warranty, and the Emotiva comes with a 5 yr warranty.

When you buy the ATI amps, they will also include a Trigger cable, which is a nice surprise. You can hook this to your receiver for automatic power up.

You won't find that little gift with Emotiva (not that it's a deal breaker).

I've bought 3 ATI amps from Classic Audio Parts. All were rated 10/10. They are very high quality amps.

Damn, I sound like I'm advertising for Classic Audio Parts! They should pay me.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ATI makes great amps, and they stand behind their products very well.

I have bought many used products from audiogon over the years and never had a problem. You can shop with confidence, and that seller has a very very good rep.

Personally I would go for the ATI for the many years of reliable service and top notch build quality.... and 7 year warranty, you can't go wrong.

If I was you I would also look heavily at the Marantz AV7005 as suggested by ZeGhostbear if your going to go with an external amp. Not to say the Denon isn't any good... I'm going to be picking one up when they come out, to see what it can do for my small system, see how it measures up against my Anthem D2v....

Good luck in your hunt....

Yeah, personally I would get the Marantz pre-pro + ATI amp.

There are so many choices, and they are all good, but that is my personal choice. Denon should have made a $1,500 pre-pro.

Well, I guess Denon & Marantz are the same company so I think they are the same quality and all.

 

[murthyvs]

Thanks AcuDefTechGuy. I will make a $1000 offer to the one on audiogon and wait! However, Emotiva UPA-7 review is pulling me there

When you buy a ATI amp from Classic Audio Parts that is rated as 10/10, it is practically brand new, and it comes with a full 7 yrs parts and labor warranty exactly like a brand new.

It will look brand new, feel brand new, and smell brand new.

The only thing that is NOT brand new is the PRICE.

Let me ask you this.

Would you rather own a Lexicon amp or a Emotiva amp?

ATI make amps for LEXICON; they just change the enclosure amp box and outside appearance.

Realistically, they will probably sound extremely similar. You could save money and buy Emotiva. But if you have the extra $$, I would get the ATI amps.

Personally I don't have anything against Emotiva. I think they sell great bang-for-the-bucks compoents.

The ATI amps are made right here in the USA, whereas the Emotiva amps are made in China.

The ATI amps come with a 7 yr warranty, and the Emotiva comes with a 5 yr warranty.

When you buy the ATI amps, they will also include a Trigger cable, which is a nice surprise. You can hook this to your receiver for automatic power up.

You won't find that little gift with Emotiva (not that it's a deal breaker).

I've bought 3 ATI amps from Classic Audio Parts. All were rated 10/10. They are very high quality amps.

Damn, I sound like I'm advertising for Classic Audio Parts! They should pay me.

 

[Mike Ronesia]

Amps for the most part either work or they don't so I wouldn't be afraid of a B-stock unit as far a reliability goes and at 1K it is almost a fair price. I would guess that the reviews would say they both sound great but would read as many as possible. I would try to find some true power numbers and unless one has 20% more wouldn't worry about that.

This is personal taste but the biggest issue with the ATI is it is butt ugly. Best suited for a closet installation.

 

[ichigo]

Er... maybe not.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/denon_avr-4810ci_av_receiver/index4.html

The AVR-4810Ci seems to fall face flat when asked to deliver large amounts of power for all channels. The Onkyo TX-NR1*** series pulls better numbers than that.

Even worse, hometheatermag only does 1KHz sine waves. Imagine a 20 Hz - 20 KHz sweep. You could shave off a few watts.

That said receivers these days all seem pretty neutered. It looks like the current 7 and 8 series Onkyos only put out around 70Wx7 even though the amps don't appear to be any smaller than the 5 series--which put out nearly 130x7. My guess is Onkyo intentionally put in some sort of power limiter as their amps tend to overheat.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is personal taste but the biggest issue with the ATI is it is butt ugly.

And looks/aesthetics was one of my top priorities when selecting the ATI AT3000 amps!

Have you seen a brand new ATI AT3000 amp in person?

The web images & flash photos of them look different than in life.

But everyone has different tastes.

If I thought that something looked ugly, there is no way I'm buying it.

I love the way the ATI amps look, especially with the huge front handle bars, which comes with the AT3000 & AT2000, but you have to pay $50 to get them with the AT1800 amps.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Even worse, hometheatermag only does 1KHz sine waves. Imagine a 20 Hz - 20 KHz sweep. You could shave off a few watts.

Are a few watts significant to notice in real life?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks AcuDefTechGuy. I will make a $1000 offer to the one on audiogon and wait! However, Emotiva UPA-7 review is pulling me there

Which one looks better to you aesthetically?

Also note that you can order the $50 huge metal handle bars for the AT1805.

To some of us, aesthetics is a huge issue too.

I think the quality of ATI amps are a lot better and the aesthetics are a lot better, but if you think they look "butt ugly" like someone here, then you might not want to buy it.

 

[KEW]

Er... maybe not.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/denon_avr-4810ci_av_receiver/index4.html

The AVR-4810Ci seems to fall face flat when asked to deliver large amounts of power for all channels. The Onkyo TX-NR1*** series pulls better numbers than that.

How can a magazine test a 140WPC receiver, find out it only produces 36 WPC into 7 channels and completely ignore that in the summary and give it 5 out of 5 stars for performance????

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

How can a magazine test a 140WPC receiver, find out it only produces 36 WPC into 7 channels and completely ignore that in the summary and give it 5 out of 5 stars for performance????

Yeah, I notice that too, not just with that receiver, but all the new receivers on HTM.

Is it due to the protection circuit of the receiver or is it just the LIMITATION of the testing done by HTM?

Maybe HTM is going downhill!

I think I saw them do a review of that Wisdom Audio in-wall speakers (the ones that cost $80K+), and they didn't even post a single frequency response or measurement or anything - unless I totally missed it or my eyes are playing tricks.

 

[gene]

How can a magazine test a 140WPC receiver, find out it only produces 36 WPC into 7 channels and completely ignore that in the summary and give it 5 out of 5 stars for performance????

Please read this:
The All Channels Driven Test

 

[Mike Ronesia]

More good info, thanks. And thanks for working towards a standard. Until that happens I'll be using your reviews for comparing amps.

I do want the nuclear powered one though...

 

[Mike Ronesia]

Have you seen a brand new ATI AT3000 amp in person?

I live on a small island in the middle of nowhere (guess) so I've not seen much in person. Like all higher end gear I'm sure it looks very cool in a system and my not liking the aesthetics is just nit picking. I want great sound at a price point I can afford that looks good as well.

 

[PENG]

Er... maybe not.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/denon_avr-4810ci_av_receiver/index4.html

The AVR-4810Ci seems to fall face flat when asked to deliver large amounts of power for all channels. The Onkyo TX-NR1*** series pulls better numbers than that.

I think those reviewers should take the time to explain things a little better they have been so far. Time and again they would test seemingly capable AVRs that has relatively large power supply transformer and caps in them such as the Denon AVR-4810 and even some older HK models in the past and report very poor ACD outputs, in fact lower than some of the obviously much less potent models.

Recent examples are the lab measurements by the same reviewer, for the Denon 4310 and the 4810. There is no way the 4310 can do so good in ACD and the 4810 would fall flat. The 4810 has a larger power supply and is 7 lbs heavier, and for Seth's information, they don't use do tricks with more cooling fins and lead plates etc.

The only explanation I can surmise is that the 4810 has a more sensitive and intelligent protective system that would shutdown the AVR when it senses that all channels are outputting more or less equal power that exceeds a pre-determined level, whereas the 4310's protective system does not employ such artificial intelligent system. I am only guessing but if I were the designer I would probably think it is logical to assume that if all 7 channels output almost the same 50W for longer than a split second then perhaps something serious is wrong, and it may therefore make sense to shut it down before things get out of hand (iow warranty claims).

If you read that review carefully, do your own math and compare the total tested output of the 4810 in 2, 5 and 7 channel you will see that it really has to do with the way the protective system works. I mean it is so obvious, 7X36=252W, that is way below the 2 and 5 channel test total output.

If my guess is right or at least within the ball park, then in real life you would have nothing to worry about because it would be practically impossible to have all channels outputting almost the same power for more than a few microseconds unless someone is doing something deliberate such as try to conduct a ACD torture tests into 2 ohm resistors or something. With the advanced in electronic technology, I suspect you are going to see more and more intelligence put into protective systems. I am definitely seeing this sort of things happening in work place. I predict Denon won't be the only one with such protective systems, more will follow, just wait and see.

 

[96cobra10101]

When you buy the ATI amps, they will also include a Trigger cable, which is a nice surprise. You can hook this to your receiver for automatic power up.

You won't find that little gift with Emotiva (not that it's a deal breaker).

I must be special, I received a trigger cable in my box.

 

[JJMP50]

As did mine....