20 amp circuit with 15 amp........

[zipper]

I pre-bought a house & it's at the point of being wired. I want to add a few things & am not having much luck coordinating with the builder. I've already got my speaker wire runs & comm cables figured but have a question. I'm going to run a dedicated 20 amp circuit to where I plan on having all my gear. I'll do this myself as the builder wanted an extra $250 to do it. Can I use a quad box & have my 20 amp outlet in the same box as one of the 15's that the electricians are putting in as standard wiring?

I'm going to wait until the electricians are finished then go in behind them so as to not take a chance on pissing them off. I'd rather have the quad box setup as I feel it will be a little cleaner look when finished. If anyone knows some do's & don't's I'm all ears. I've done comm installations for years but don't want to overstep my boundaries.

 

[HookedOnSound]

Do you actually need a 20amp circuit?

Unless you have or plan to have gear utilizing 20 Amps you are much better off putting split plugs with their own dedicated circuit (circuit breaker). That way you can put all your high amperage gear on each plug as to provide enough power.

Just a thought.

 

[zipper]

20 amps may be more than I need, but I figured as long as I'm running it I might as well go a little bigger. With a receiver, 3 amps, 2 subs, TV, & the rest I figure I'll have a little overhead.

I'm setting eveything up in my living room (house is only about 1500sft) so I don't want to go crazy adding outlets.

 

[jaxvon]

I have to agree with Zipper. If you have the option, it's always a good idea to run a dedicated 20 amp circuit to your stack. Heck, two if you can do it. Yeah it might be overkill NOW, but when you upgrade later, you won't be popping breakers. Besides, a dedicated line means you won't hear the vacuum cleaner in your system. As far as being able to run 2 circuits to a double gange box, I don't know. I'm not sure what your local electrical code is. You could also go to the bookstore or your local library and try to find the 2005 National Electrical Code and take a look through it.

 

[zipper]

Good idea jaxvon.......perhaps I'll call an electrician tomorrow 1st.



Congrats........nice win for Mich. yesterday.

 

[bpape]

As far as I know, it's perfectly acceptable to have 2 circuits in the same box. I've even seen guys split a single duplex onto 2 different circuits (not sure how kosher that is though).

My cousin did mine, is licensed, and is a code freak! For example, he refused to do the theater room until we put lighted switches a the top and bottom of the stairs. I have 2 different places in my room that have 2 different circuits in the same box. He says that is not at all a problem.

I have no idea if there is anything where you are that might be different.

 

[Bryce_H]

I did the electrical in my home theater and ran 2 20 amp lines (ready for 240 volts if ever needed i.e. Richard Gray) to my component closet. I have one outlet on each side. I'm currently only using 1 of the outlets, but it is always easier and MUCH cheaper to do it now, rather than rip everything up later. Make sure you get 12 gauge wire.

 

[zipper]

Thanks for the responses..............yes, I have bought 12/3 (yellow) already & have the 20 amp plug. Now that I've seen what the electrician has done (one outlet where I need it & it's the end of a run looped through a LOT of other outlets/switches) I may run two leads back to the panel & mount my own separate quad box.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Thanks for the responses..............yes, I have bought 12/3 (yellow) already & have the 20 amp plug. Now that I've seen what the electrician has done (one outlet where I need it & it's the end of a run looped through a LOT of other outlets/switches) I may run two leads back to the panel & mount my own separate quad box.

Man! Doesn't that just irk you?!?

I was lucky enough I guess. Yeah, it was 150 bucks to get an outlet run for my equipment rack, but I wrote in my paperwork "DEDICATED 20 AMP OUTLET!" and dropped the pre-set $150.00 charge the builder forces you into. I also paid for about a half dozen random outlets in my unfinished basement.

Sure enough - they got all the outlets in the basement EXCEPT the 20 amp circuit and I caught it. Let the builder know it was missing and the next day it was there. I double checked and it most definitely is a 100% dedicated 20amp circuit.

Works great - hasn't blown yet.

 

[majorloser]

Please check out this forum post. We talked about this here:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14230

As far as going behind the builder's electrician, BEWARE! You better talk to the guy. When the electrical inspector come out he'll base everything on the plans. It's the electrician's license this stuff falls under. If he fails inspection you can get charged for him to make everthing right! I slipped a $100 to the electrician doing the work one day and got everything I wanted. Didn't have to go through the builder or the architect. The electrician roping the house doesn't get the extra money when you pay the builder.
Don't be afraid to "grease" the contractors. They'll do just about anything for a Franklin!

If you have enough space in the breaker box for another 20A 120V breaker run a separate line (12ga) to a new quad with two 20A duplex recepticles. This will give you room for a couple of UPS's and a power conditioner for the amps. Save the 15A outlet for something else. Might want a light or vent fan in this area that you won't want with the electronic. You really need a dedicated 20A line if you're going to get serious some day! A good quality multi-channel amp can pull 10A to 12A all by itself under load. And they can crank out some heat.

 

[zipper]

BMX..........yeah, they want to gouge you for anything extra & trying to follow the "chain of command" (RE agent,builder,etc.) results in lots of headaches & miscommunications.


Major..........my plan is to wait until after the inspection to run the 20 amp lines. I went ahead & wired in some extra phone jks & cable outlets ($100/outlet thru the builder) as there is no license needed out here for low voltage wiring. I initially was going to try to catch the electr. & work a deal with him but noone could tell me when they'd be there. Next time I checked the house it was done. I left a note in the garage asking them to just drop the tel/catv wires down the studs inside the garage & not to punch them outside, that I was going to mount a comm panel in the garage..............but sure enough, I show up, the note's gone, the wires are stuck thru to the outside.


thanks for input fellas........

 

[zipper]

One other thing that irked me.......................while running in the extra outlets, I discovered they paralleled a phone & catv wire with a 15a run (tacked to a truss) for about 15-18 ft with only about a 1-2 inch separation.

 

[zipper]

Well, it looks as though Major was right. My work was discovered by the site sup. &, although he said it would pass inspection, they may take it out. Of course I was read the riot act about how this isn't my home until it closes & liability issues, etc. ,all of which I can understand. Fortunately I had only gotten as far as running some extra catv & phone lines & putting the comm box in the garage (which is what he spotted). We had a cordial conversation & I suppose there's a chance they may leave what was done, but I'm irked at the prospect of having to run the power after the home is finished. The crawl space is huge but it's just the idea of wrecking out rock & then refinishing. I wish I could've caught the elecs. when they were there,as was suggested, but communications have been abysmal throughout this whole ordeal.

Funny though, I got to talk to the vp of the develop. dept. & the site sup all in an hours time when emails & phone calls had been ignored or form-lettered for months.

Just to give you an idea..........for 2 extra phn jks, 2 extra catv jks, & an extra 20 amp circuit, the costs would have been $665 + a 10% admin. fee + tax. I ain't broke but I could sure use that dough more effectively elsewheres considering it's only about $100 in materials if I do it myself.

 

[majorloser]

Quick question:
Did you get a construction to permanent loan? If so, did you already close on the property?

If you did, it's your property and they are YOUR contractor! All you have to do is contact the bank and remove the builder as controller of the draws. If you hold the money they'll kiss your butt.

 

[majorloser]

Hey, don't worry.
Power is not that hard to run after construction. The hardest part is fishing the wall switches. If it's metal stud, even easier.

Just remember, payback is a *****. Make them suffer when you close. Bring every friend you have that knows anything about construction and let them pick the house apart. Hit the builder with a punchlist that will knock his socks off. It can give you a great bargaining tool.

I hope you're taking pictures before the drywall goes up! It will make running cable later all that much easier. It's nice to know what's behind the drywall.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I pre-bought a house & it's at the point of being wired. I want to add a few things & am not having much luck coordinating with the builder. I've already got my speaker wire runs & comm cables figured but have a question. I'm going to run a dedicated 20 amp circuit to where I plan on having all my gear. I'll do this myself as the builder wanted an extra $250 to do it. Can I use a quad box & have my 20 amp outlet in the same box as one of the 15's that the electricians are putting in as standard wiring?

I'm going to wait until the electricians are finished then go in behind them so as to not take a chance on pissing them off. I'd rather have the quad box setup as I feel it will be a little cleaner look when finished. If anyone knows some do's & don't's I'm all ears. I've done comm installations for years but don't want to overstep my boundaries.

You said you will install a 20A outlet after the electrician. Is that circuit on a 20A breaker? You don't really need a 20A outlet unless you have a component with that plug. Just don't put a 20A outlet on a 15A breaker

 

[zipper]

Major...............no,I pre-bought in a development. I've only put down $2k as earnest so far. Word has it they're a bit dismayed that they sold so many so soon (I signed in June) because housing prices around here (N. of Seattle) have rocketed up. I bought for $230K.........a same model house across the street flipped & now they're selling it for $260k...................not even finished. So I doubt they'd shed a tear if I threatened to walk. But I will do as you suggested..............& yes, I've got some interior pics.

I agree the easiest part will be fishing the walls.......done it a lot. But getting from the panel in the garage to where I need to go will be a chore because they finish the garages. But who really gives a rip about 'rock in the garage............to tear it out just makes a mess is all. I'll get it done somehow, it's just a shame that my only choice is pay them through the nose or wait.


Mtry............no problem. I've done some electrical before but am not versed on the NEC manual. I already have the 20a breakers & outlets. More than I need? ........maybe, but it's nice to get a couple of heavy duty breaker strips to use when you have 10 pieces of gear to plug in.


Thanks for all the replies................I appreciate them.

 

[HowY]

I'd offer it's more than just pullin wire
using a 20a rated outlet & breaker...

Not a one post like this I've read even addresses
the need to BALANCE YOUR BREAKER BOX...

SO you must carefully consider the LEG and
the amp'age per leg in your box as well...

What about pullin from the same leg as
you're furnace fan or heat pump.......

Just another consideration

 

[Dryseals]

Just for your info, the breaker is for protection of the wire, nothing more. 12 awg is good to 20 amps, actually more but we won't get into that. Most wall plugs that you by, are only rated to 15 amps, there are twenty amp wall plugs and you'll notice the plug configuration is a tad different, extra side ways slot, still fit a standard plug. As for balancing the load at the box, thats a great idea but hardly can be accomplished unless you know what devices are going to be turned on at the same time, you can only do so much.

And while your are at it, now is a good time to run a good dedicated signal ground back to the box or better yet the ground rod. A number 2 stranded wire from there to the safety ground in the box/rod will give you a good reference for any grounding issues that may arise in the future. I hear folks talking about shielded cables, but I never hear them talk about the grounding. The shield provides absolutely no purpose unless it is grounded and only on one end, the other end needs to be open and floating.

 

[philh]

Just for your info, the breaker is for protection of the wire, nothing more. 12 awg is good to 20 amps, actually more but we won't get into that. Most wall plugs that you by, are only rated to 15 amps, there are twenty amp wall plugs and you'll notice the plug configuration is a tad different, extra side ways slot, still fit a standard plug. As for balancing the load at the box, thats a great idea but hardly can be accomplished unless you know what devices are going to be turned on at the same time, you can only do so much.

And while your are at it, now is a good time to run a good dedicated signal ground back to the box or better yet the ground rod. A number 2 stranded wire from there to the safety ground in the box/rod will give you a good reference for any grounding issues that may arise in the future. I hear folks talking about shielded cables, but I never hear them talk about the grounding. The shield provides absolutely no purpose unless it is grounded and only on one end, the other end needs to be open and floating.

Most places are now requiring two ground rods. That's fine and dandy, but be very cautious on voltage differential between them. Closer together is better. If I recall, our code was water line + two ground rods, eight feet apart.