2-channel separates for less than $2k?

[PENG]

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How much gain does each provide? Also, what can each drive WRT difficult loads? The Denon is rated for 6 Ohm speakers and the A23 is rated with 4 and 2 Ohm loads, 45A peak output current. There's no way the AVR will dole out 225Wx2, two channels driven, 20-20KHz. As much as I like Denon (and I do sell that as my receiver line), I don't think its amp can do what the Parasound does. I don't have objective proof (yet) but when I get 0a free day, I'd like to take it to a friend, who can test my AVR-2313CI and the A23, to see what each is capable of.

Aren't we, including 3 dB were talking about using AVR as preamp? Based on your question I used the 4520 or RXA Yamaha as examples for comparison with the P5, not the A23.

I cited the 3805 on the topic of noise only, as an aside.. I never intended to compare an AVR with the A23 so please do not be confused. Of course the A23 is superior as an amp if compared to the 3805.

 

[PENG]

I would tend to agree with what you're saying here. I doubt the Denon will be as happy to deliver the power required with the same immediacy as the A23.

Of course.

 

[PENG]

I would tend to agree with what you're saying here. I doubt the Denon will be as happy to deliver the power required with the same immediacy as the A23.

To be clear, my response to highfigh was only about using AVR as preamp (not even prepro) vs the P5 and only if look and pride are not the issue. However, in case you are curious, I do have some lab measurements for the Denon AVR-3805 and A21 and the measurements were done by the same lab. Unfortunately I found no comparable bench test results for the A23. The A23 is not as powerful as the A21 but it should still easily beat the Denon, though probably not by a very wide margin.

Ohms Denon AVR-3805
8 164.4W @ 0.5%
4 307.5W @ 1.1%
2 299.9W @ 0.9% (Dynamic)
1 160.3% @ 0.8% (Dynamic)

Ohms Halo A21
8 290.8W/292.8W @ 0.5% (L/R)
4 477.7W/510.1W @ 0.1/1.0% (L/R)
2 Dyn output into 1 ohm (Failed)

When you use a 7 channel AVR as a 2 channel preamp, the power supply will only have to feed 2 channels. Denon and Yamaha seems to have very stout amps while Onkyo, HK and NAD tend to have larger power supply transformer but not as robust amp section, relatively speaking.

Again, I realize this is off topic (my apology to the OP) and I only brought up the 3805 when highfigh mentioned he heard some hiss from his speakers when using the A23. I just want to clarify the point that I did not compare the Denon AVR-3805 to the A23 at all. There really should be no comparison in performance between a mid range AVR and a near high end power amp.

 

[highfigh]

I would tend to agree with what you're saying here. I doubt the Denon will be as happy to deliver the power required with the same immediacy as the A23.

To be clear, my response to highfigh was only about using AVR as preamp (not even prepro) vs the P5 and only if look and pride are not the issue. However, in case you are curious, I do have some lab measurements for the Denon AVR-3805 and A21 and the measurements were done by the same lab. Unfortunately I found no comparable bench test results for the A23. The A23 is not as powerful as the A21 but it should still easily beat the Denon, though probably not by a very wide margin.

Ohms Denon AVR-3805
8 164.4W @ 0.5%
4 307.5W @ 1.1%
2 299.9W @ 0.9% (Dynamic)
1 160.3% @ 0.8% (Dynamic)

Ohms Halo A21
8 290.8W/292.8W @ 0.5% (L/R)
4 477.7W/510.1W @ 0.1/1.0% (L/R)
2 Dyn output into 1 ohm (Failed)

When you use a 7 channel AVR as a 2 channel preamp, the power supply will only have to feed 2 channels. Denon and Yamaha seems to have very stout amps while Onkyo, HK and NAD tend to have larger power supply transformer but not as robust amp section, relatively speaking.

Again, I realize this is off topic (my apology to the OP) and I only brought up the 3805 when highfigh mentioned he heard some hiss from his speakers when using the A23. I just want to clarify the point that I did not compare the Denon AVR-3805 to the A23 at all. There really should be no comparison in performance between a mid range AVR and a near high end power amp.

I never wrote that I hear hiss from my speakers, I wrote that if I hear noise from the P5 (and it can be verified as coming from that), I'll make a call to Parasound. I asked about any audible hiss relative to the 3805 vs A23 comparison- if one is providing much more gain, more care is required to make sure the hiss doesn't become a problem.

I'm impressed that the 3805 almost doubled its power into 4 Ohms and I'm very surprised to see that it did so well into 1 Ohm (because I have never seen a receiver do that without puking), even if the distortion increased so horribly.

 

[PENG]

I never wrote that I hear hiss from my speakers, I wrote that if I hear noise from the P5 (and it can be verified as coming from that), I'll make a call to Parasound.

I referred to your post# 57, you wrote"..If I have to put my ear an inch or two from the tweeter to hear a noise, it's not a problem for me and I have heard worse noises from Citation and other "top-line" preamps, without having to move closer.. "

So you are correct, I missed the word "If". I guess now we are even.

I'm impressed that the 3805 almost doubled its power into 4 Ohms and I'm very surprised to see that it did so well into 1 Ohm (because I have never seen a receiver do that without puking), even if the distortion increased so horribly.

That was for around 1% THD, at 0.1% THD it would probably do only around 220 to 240W into 4 ohms base on the measurements (link below) for the 3808. The 3808 was obviously a newer model but the power output seems comparable.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-3808ci-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

The data I posted for the 3805 and A21 were from a British site and their lab most likely used different test methodology.

Let me repeat hopefully for the last time, in my response to the question you asked in post#57, I used the 3805 as an example and to be used as a preamp only, vs the P5, not the A23.