2 Channel receiver without bypass

[LeDell Loyd]

I reasently read a review on the Outlaw RR 2160 and became very interested in the receiver. I would like to use this unit with my home theater. I have read I should look for a 2 channel receiver or processor with theater bypass. This Outlaw doesn't have a bypass, so is there a way I can use the receiver switching between the two systems. Using the main speakers for both systems .

 

[LeDell Loyd]

Sorry I made a mistake, the post should have read 2 Channel receiver without bypass.

 

[lovinthehd]

Why not just use your home theater receiver? Why do you need a 2ch specific unit?

 

[slipperybidness]

Adding a stereo receiver to your HT is silly. The only thing that you are going to accomplish is adding complexity to your system and wasting $ on electronics that gain you nothing.

These mainstream magazines that suggest some benefit of adding a stereo receiver to your HT are fools, plain and simple. Fools getting advertising $ from the same companies that they say to add to your HT system.

If you want to add a stereo receiver, then go ahead and pick up a separate set of speakers and set up a 2nd system in a different room. At least you will benefit from that approach.

 

[LeDell Loyd]

The reason for combining a 2 channel system to my home theater is for pure 2 channel music. I would like to use the main speakers with both systems without unpluging and repluging the speakers. My home isn't large enough for two separate systems. My speakers are B & W 803's the preamp and Amplifier 7.1 separates 200 wpc. Playing 2 channel music I know i'm not hearing everything I should from these speakers. There just doesn't seem to be much power or punch listing to 2 channel music. They play loud but thats not what I'm looking for. Watching movies the system is great I've been very satisfied. I thought the speakers would sound better with a separate system and power supply. The speakers would come to life when listing to music.

 

[lovinthehd]

Not my experience between my dedicated 2ch setups and my avr based ones. Your current amp is likely quite sufficient as is your pre-pro. Maybe you can do better in setting them up in your room for a better music listening experience? I doubt its the electronics particularly getting in the way, I'd bet your 7ch setup is better than the Outlaw 2160....

 

[slipperybidness]

The reason for combining a 2 channel system to my home theater is for pure 2 channel music. I would like to use the main speakers with both systems without unpluging and repluging the speakers. My home isn't large enough for two separate systems. My speakers are B & W 803's the preamp and Amplifier 7.1 separates 200 wpc. Playing 2 channel music I know i'm not hearing everything I should from these speakers. There just doesn't seem to be much power or punch listing to 2 channel music. They play loud but thats not what I'm looking for. Watching movies the system is great I've been very satisfied. I thought the speakers would sound better with a separate system and power supply. The speakers would come to life when listing to music.

OK, I'm saying "don't waste your time or $" on adding a 2 channel receiver to your HT.

Do you keep your sub-woofer engaged for 2 channel? Or just straight/direct 2 channel with no sub.

Are you 100% certain that you don't have some DSP engaged for 2 channel? Are you using RC for 2 channel music? Have you tried to disable that.

You can take my advice and save some $ and complexity.

Or, you can spend the $ and find out for yourself (and I would not be surprised in the slightest if the Placebo Effect scratches that itch for you without any real improvements).

 

[j_garcia]

Is there an issue currently? If not, then a stereo receiver won't improve your music experience. I tried something like this myself, actually using a separate amp and even separate speakers and it was STILL too complicated in the same setup. If you want to use the same mains, it will be difficult and add very little benefit. If there is a power issue, just add a stereo or 3ch amp for the front stage.

 

[Pogre]

I personally don't like pure direct modes for music listening because it just doesn't sound as good as it does with some eq thrown in. I'm with Slip. I don't think you'll get any appreciable difference in sq by getting a separate setup just for 2 channel listening. Not to mention the complexity you're adding to the system.

 

[KEW]

The reason for combining a 2 channel system to my home theater is for pure 2 channel music. I would like to use the main speakers with both systems without unpluging and repluging the speakers. My home isn't large enough for two separate systems. My speakers are B & W 803's the preamp and Amplifier 7.1 separates 200 wpc. Playing 2 channel music I know i'm not hearing everything I should from these speakers. There just doesn't seem to be much power or punch listing to 2 channel music. They play loud but thats not what I'm looking for. Watching movies the system is great I've been very satisfied. I thought the speakers would sound better with a separate system and power supply. The speakers would come to life when listing to music.

Are you saying you currently are using a 7.1 channel pre-processor and separate amps providing 200WPC?
What models?

 

[LeDell Loyd]

Ken, the processor and power amp are both B & K, 7.1 at 200 wpc, yes they are separates. The speakers are B & W 803's with matching Center channel. Watching movies the system is great, listing to 2 channel music a let down.The system is loud, there is more to music than just playing loud. I know these speakers can give more than what I'm hearing. My thought is because it's a 7.1 amp the wpc is spread over 7 channels,meaning not enough left to give the main speakers that needed punch,and life. I know to combine the two systems a 2 channel receiver should have theater bypass in order to use the main speakers without unplugging between systems. How can I use a 2 channel without theater bypass?

 

[lovinthehd]

Your amp has more power per channel than the Outlaw 2160 does...really not sure what articles you've been reading to put such thoughts in your head about 2ch gear, but sounds like you've been fed a bunch of nonsense IMO.

 

[slipperybidness]

Your amp has more power per channel than the Outlaw 2160 does...really not sure what articles you've been reading to put such thoughts in your head about 2ch gear, but sounds like you've been fed a bunch of nonsense IMO.

I like to call that "he already drank the Koolaid"

 

[LeDell Loyd]

The main reason is what I'm not hearing. I've heard my B & W 803 speakers in other places and they always sound much better than in my home. As for what I've been reading.The Complete Guide to High- End Audio by Robert Harley, the Absollute Sound and forums from Audiogon. There are several articles on 2 channels receivers and processors with theater bypass for the purpose of connecting the two systems. I've been looking at Parasound Halo JC 2 BP, Marantz AV 8802 and Marantz AV 7703. All of these are a bit out of reach for me right now. If I can find an older 2 Channel receiver that I can afford it will not have theater bypass. Again I want to use the main speakers without plugging and unplugging the main speakers between the two systems.

 

[lovinthehd]

Good grief. Just having another unit and a way to bypass one or the other doesn't mean it's going to sound any different. Your room is likely the difference, not the electronics. If I could kick Harley in the nuts for all the audio bullshit he spreads, I certainly would. TAS is one of the most ridiculous audio blogs, good for a laugh but not much more IMO.

 

[j_garcia]

The main reason is what I'm not hearing. I've heard my B & W 803 speakers in other places and they always sound much better than in my home. As for what I've been reading.The Complete Guide to High- End Audio by Robert Harley, the Absollute Sound and forums from Audiogon. There are several articles on 2 channels receivers and processors with theater bypass for the purpose of connecting the two systems. I've been looking at Parasound Halo JC 2 BP, Marantz AV 8802 and Marantz AV 7703. All of these are a bit out of reach for me right now. If I can find an older 2 Channel receiver that I can afford it will not have theater bypass. Again I want to use the main speakers without plugging and unplugging the main speakers between the two systems.

Your system is nice enough that I think what you propose would be a DOWNGRADE. Work on the placement of the speakers, seating position and room acoustics and I think you'll do a lot better long term. Again, what exactly is it that you're "not hearing"? What sources are we talking about or is this with all sources?

 

[KEW]

Is there anyone you can borrow some gear from just to do a trial?
There is absolutely no good reason that a analog stereo system would sound appreciably differently than any competent AVR (with enough power to properly drive your speakers) set in "pure direct" mode.
But I can certainly relate to a "show me" attitude after reading a bunch of articles talking about how changing an amp totally changes the sound character of a system.
Audio electronics and test methods have been very good for a long time and it is hard to believe the kind of changes in performance you seek cannot be measured as obvious inadequacies of your current gear (and I don't think you'll find such inadequacies measured on the gear you have!).

Perhaps you can post photos of your listening room and some of the good people here can make suggestions based on their experience tuning their own room.

 

[Pogre]

Ken, the processor and power amp are both B & K, 7.1 at 200 wpc, yes they are separates. The speakers are B & W 803's with matching Center channel. Watching movies the system is great, listing to 2 channel music a let down.The system is loud, there is more to music than just playing loud. I know these speakers can give more than what I'm hearing. My thought is because it's a 7.1 amp the wpc is spread over 7 channels,meaning not enough left to give the main speakers that needed punch,and life. I know to combine the two systems a 2 channel receiver should have theater bypass in order to use the main speakers without unplugging between systems. How can I use a 2 channel without theater bypass?

Anything you think you're missing is probably most assuredly room acoustics and a weaker amplifier won't fix it. J makes a pretty good point, what you're considering is a downgrade.

Have you tried room correction software? Assuming your avr has some type of RC (Audyssey, YPAO, Dirac, etc) that is. Lots of folks like pure direct but I'm not one of them. When I listen in pure direct it sounds like there's a lot missing to me. Room correction software is intended to help with your room modes and offer a flatter (better) response.

Aside from that, your speaker positioning would be the next step, imo. It really is pretty silly to add a weaker 2 channel amp to improve sound quality.

 

[LeDell Loyd]

The first thing I'd like to do is thank each of you Lovinethehd, J Garcia, Kew, and Pagre for your help with my concerns. You can probably tell I'm a beginner. I've never considered room acoustics. Each of you mentioned acoustics may be my problem. I"ll try to focus on acoustics and room correction to improve sound before purchasing new equipment.When you say room correction and acoustics are these the same something? What is room correction software?

Kew I like your statement no good reason an analog system should sound appreciably different than a good AVR. Is it not true that a 200 wpc amp and processor, spreads the 200 watts over the 7 channels? Meainging less output over each channel. I'm in the Los Angeles area and don't know of any place to borrow gear. I'm sure there must be some but I don't know them.

Here are some photos of my room please make suggestions. The main speakers B & W 803's (front) have 9 feet between them.The system is on the north wall, (front) on the east (right wall) a 7x11 foot glass door, the south wall (back) a glass china cabinet and on west (left) an opening to rest of the room (an open area). The room is 22x24 feet with an 8 foot ceiling. Wood floors with an 10 x12 throw rug.
This site could not process the picture files so i will send them through email. : ledellloyd@yahoo.com
email me for them

 

[LeDell Loyd]

Is there anyone you can borrow some gear from just to do a trial?
There is absolutely no good reason that a analog stereo system would sound appreciably differently than any competent AVR (with enough power to properly drive your speakers) set in "pure direct" mode.
But I can certainly relate to a "show me" attitude after reading a bunch of articles talking about how changing an amp totally changes the sound character of a system.
Audio electronics and test methods have been very good for a long time and it is hard to believe the kind of changes in performance you seek cannot be measured as obvious inadequacies of your current gear (and I don't think you'll find such inadequacies measured on the gear you have!).

Perhaps you can post photos of your listening room and some of the good people here can make suggestions based on their experience tuning their own room.

^^^^